Which one will win and what is the vote difference?

[Shadowriver]

16 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

I think most of the Italians who follow this thing, already know.  The bid enjoys an 83% public support.  That's what won it for Italy + Stockholm's ditzy, rebel mayor lost ii for her city when she announced that she would not sign the Host City Contract.  What kind of mayor would that be to entrust your games to? 

Bach just said the same thing ;]

[FYI]

18 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

That's what won it for Italy + Stockholm's ditzy, rebel mayor lost ii for her city when she announced that she would not sign the Host City Contract.  What kind of mayor would that be to entrust your games to? 

Really? So the Swedish gov’t was (finally) onboard but not her?

[baron-pierreIV]

2 minutes ago, Shadowriver said:

Bach just said the same thing ;]

Great minds think alike.  Another secret weapon of the Italian bid was that like 4 or 5 of the Winter IFs are/were headed by Italians; so those forces swung a huge bloc of votes.  (And I never felt comfortable with the Stockholm-Sigulda link.  That was just too risky for the Winter months.)  

[baron-pierreIV]

2 minutes ago, FYI said:

Really? So the Swedish gov’t was (finally) onboard but not her?

It was too late for her cosmetic "change of heart."  I think her earlier declaration already did its damage.  

[FYI]

31 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

The Stockholm bid just could not even get early, enthusiastic unanimity from their own ranks.  Plus. maybe it's a small thing, but I never saw any support numbers for Latvia, their bid's junior partner.  So again, the whole Swedish bid was sketchy.   The whole Swedish effort reeked of like them covering their nose while semi-wanting to host the Games.  Too bad.

I have to concur. The Swedes were so last minute on this, as if they were pushed/forced into this whole thing from all the proponents, & I wonder how much Gunilla had her hands on this, since she wanted this very much. Seems like Sweden just can’t ever get this right. They should’ve held on with 2022, they would’ve won that one hands down. Oh well.

[ofan]

45 minutes ago, Nacre said:

The deciding factors were the lack of financial contributions from governments, the inadequate venue arrangements and the huge logistical issues.

For anyone who has every actually worked at an Olympics these are huge and obvious concerns. When I volunteered at Vancouver 2010 there were people getting home to Langley at 4:00 AM after volunteering at Whistler that day. I can't imagine how Swedish volunteers from places like Malmo who were assigned to work at Are would manage it.

Using Malmo is disingenuous, as it's about a 6.5 hour drive from Stockholm. 20% of Sweden's population lives in the greater Stockholm area, I'm sure most of the volunteers would have come from there. The real issue would be assigning people to Are where there's far less infrastructure in place.  

[munichfan]

Nah, I bet it was Stockholm's mayor's ... rather modest singing performance. 

[FYI]

1 hour ago, munichfan said:

Haha, so once again they have shown the more sustainable, responsibly-sized bid the middle finger. So much for the "New Norm"...

The Executive Board *approved* both bids to the final ballot. If the Milan bid was such crap, then why do that in the first place? I think it was Sweden’s very-late-in-the-Game “support” that didn’t sit well with many IOC members (let’s also keep in mind that they pulled out of 2022 when they could’ve been given those Games on a silver-platter in the end). Looks like it could’ve been a matter of ‘too little, too late’ kinda deal.

[baron-pierreIV]

xxx

Edited June 24, 2019 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

1 hour ago, Nacre said:

Assuming that Norway actually wants to host the Olympics, of course. 

Exactly. Easier said than done.

1 hour ago, Nacre said:

Is that the government of Norway or the Norwegian Olympic Committee?

Like in Sweden’s case, it’s basically the Norwegian Olympic Commitee & not from the gov’t. And if this vote is any indication, the IOC is still very leery over lukewarm bid support.

[baron-pierreIV]

2 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

And unless she has a horrid speaking voice, the Swedes didn't even bring up Crown Princess Sylvia to the podium.  Other bids ALWAYS bring up  their royal ammunition to the Final presentation.  That would at least have had Prince Albert fulminating as a swing vote!  The IOC'ers love that.  What was she doing there sitting in the sidelines?  Very ineffective window dressing.  

Oops.  Sorry for the double post.  

Edited June 24, 2019 by baron-pierreIV

[munichfan]

I don't say Milan's bid was crap, just that it might turn out less of a supporter for the IOC's image than going with Sweden. After all, we're talking about a bid which will build an oval, several arenas and a sliding track - and not because there's no suitable venues in the region, but as a matter of some local politician's pride and stubbornness. Italy will probably play a decent host anyway, but there will be international media criticism on the way.

[baron-pierreIV]

3 minutes ago, munichfan said:

I don't say Milan's bid was crap, just that it might turn out less of a supporter for the IOC's image than going with Sweden. After all, we're talking about a bid which will build an oval, several arenas and a sliding track - and not because there's no suitable venues in the region, but as a matter of some local politician's pride and stubbornness. Italy will probably play a decent host anyway, but there will be international media criticism on the way.

But all of that will become part of Italy's winter sporting legacy.  (I bet Torino must feel like a deflated souffle now.)  

Edited June 24, 2019 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

Well, your “giving the middle finger” & “so much for the ‘New Norm’ “ comments certainly give that impression, though. Not to mention your “but as a matter some local politician’s pride & stubbornness”, which can be said of virtually any bid, really.

[Nacre]

1 hour ago, ofan said:

Using Malmo is disingenuous, as it's about a 6.5 hour drive from Stockholm. 20% of Sweden's population lives in the greater Stockholm area, I'm sure most of the volunteers would have come from there. The real issue would be assigning people to Are where there's far less infrastructure in place.  

It would still be rather awful for people from Stockholm.

At Vancouver 2010 volunteers had to meet very early in the morning at a transit site to get picked up by a bus and then go to Whistler. And they might make you wait there until midnight. And Whistler was only a two hour bus ride from Vancouver.

For volunteers from Uppsala the equivalent would be driving an hour to a meeting point in Stockholm an hour before time to wait for a bus and go over your responsibilities, then take a 10 hour bus ride to Are, then work there for >8 hours, then take a 10 hour bus ride home, and then driving an hour back home. That's more than 30 hours in one "day" of volunteering.

I am not saying that the Swedish bid was unworkable. But it would have been very challenging even with strong government support. With very little government support I think it was a longshot.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Nacre

[baron-pierreIV]

3 minutes ago, Nacre said:

It would still be rather awful for people from Stockholm.

At Vancouver 2010 volunteers had to meet very early in the morning at a transit site to get picked up by a bus and then go to Whistler. And they might make you wait there until midnight. And Whistler was only a two hour bus ride from Vancouver.

For volunteers from Uppsala the equivalent would be driving an hour to a meeting point in Stockholm an hour before time to wait for a bus and go over your responsibilities, then take a 10 hour bus ride to Are, then work there for >8 hours, then take a 10 hour bus ride home, and then driving an hour back home. That's more than 30 hours in one "day" of volunteering.

But you're assuming that volunteers in these situations you mention have to go back home to their distant point of origin.  I don't think any responsible OCOG would allow or foster that.  It would be highly irresponsible for them to do so.  I am sure volunteers , for a well-planned Games, are encouraged to shack up/ find shared housing close by for their duties.  

[Ikarus360]

1 hour ago, FYI said:

Really? So the Swedish gov’t was (finally) onboard but not her?

This all sounds like Stockholm deliberately and covertly sabotaged their own bid. In fact, most of the swedish people i've read online so far are literally throwing confetti and being glad that they weren't picked to host the games, also saying the whole Bid was made up of farces and lies only their own members believed.

Reminder that, on the 2004 race, an extremist group went as far as to bomb the Goteborg and Stockholm stadiums in order to ruin their bid for the 2004 games, citing the same reasons (taxes increase, billions of dollars spending, more tourism, etc. )

[Nacre]

6 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

But you're assuming that volunteers in these situations you mention have to go back home to their distant point of origin.  I don't think any responsible OCOG would allow or foster that.  It would be highly irresponsible for them to do so.  I am sure volunteers , for a well-planned Games, are encouraged to shack up/ find shared housing close by for their duties.  

The problem is that there simply isn't much housing to share at Are as the entire town has a population of 1,400. In comparison Whistler has a population of 12,000 yet most of the volunteers still had to be bused in from the Vancouver metro area. 

I suppose they could set up tents, but it would be rather cold . . .

Edited June 24, 2019 by Nacre

[baron-pierreIV]

Just now, Nacre said:

The problem is that there simply isn't much housing to share at Are as the entire town has a population of 1,400. In comparison Whistler has a population of 12,000 yet most of the volunteers still had to be bused in from the Vancouver metro area. 

Well, that's why Are was NOT picked - among other reasons.  

[Ikarus360]

Video showing the reaction of people in Milan during the announcement.

Also, very good news for Marco Balich and his group, which will most likely make the ceremonies. I just hope they're better than Torino, though.

[Quaker2001]

2 minutes ago, Nacre said:

The problem is that there simply isn't much housing to share at Are as the entire town has a population of 1,400. In comparison Whistler has a population of 12,000 yet most of the volunteers still had to be bused in from the Vancouver metro area. 

I suppose they could set up tents, but it would be rather cold . . .

Are has hosted a World Alpine Championships before.  Pretty sure they could figure out hosting the Alpine events from an Olympics without busing everyone from Stockholm

[Ikarus360]

Oh, and by the way, forget about San Siro hosting the opening ceremony. They are going to torn down the stadium and build a new one. Ironically, it was announced today. All too reminiscing of Torino original plans of doing the ceremony in the ill fated Delle Alpi.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9355926/ac-milan-inter-san-siro-630m-2022/

[yoshi]

That image there from Milan is what tells you how they won. I don’t know if Stockholm had a public viewing event but if they had, there were probably as many cheers there for the Milan victory as there were in Italy. Norway still has a chance - especially 30/34 if the IOC plays its cards right - but I don’t think there’ll ever be a Winter Olympics in Sweden, sadly. A Youth Olympics might be small enough for Östersund & Åre to manage alone though. 

[munichfan]

5 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

Oh, and by the way, forget about San Siro hosting the opening ceremony. They are going to torn down the stadium and build a new one. Ironically, it was announced today. All too reminiscing of Torino original plans of doing the ceremony in the ill fated Delle Alpi.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9355926/ac-milan-inter-san-siro-630m-2022/

German site stadionwelt reported a few days ago, San Siro might remain until 2026 to host the ceremony, which, however, seems quite inefficient to finance upkeep for that thing for several years just to have one show there. 

[FYI]

42 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

This all sounds like Stockholm deliberately and covertly sabotaged their own bid. In fact, most of the swedish people i've read online so far are literally throwing confetti and being glad that they weren't picked to host the games, also saying the whole Bid was made up of farces and lies only their own members believed.

Reminder that, on the 2004 race, an extremist group went as far as to bomb the Goteborg and Stockholm stadiums in order to ruin their bid for the 2004 games, citing the same reasons (taxes increase, billions of dollars spending, more tourism, etc. )

I’ve always said that the Swedes have a history of going against the Olympics in their own backyard, which yes, dates back to 1997 with their 2004 summer bid. If anything, the lack of any activity while the Evaluation Team was on the ground there a few months ago, speaks volumes, while in Italy it was pretty much abuzz during their evaluation visit.

And while many were citing that the Stockholm bid was going to be “privately-financed”, I guess those numbers really weren’t adding up & made some IOC members uncomfortable. And like I said earlier, if this vote is any indication, is that the IOC is still leery about lukewarm support bids. And that should heed some credence for those who are already chanting “Norway” for the next round. Which let’s remember, the support level for the Oslo 2022 bid was also pretty much the same as the Stockholm 2026 bid.