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London 2036


stryker
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4 hours ago, Brekkie Boy said:

Have to wonder too after the success of this weekends Jubilee Concert whether a future opening ceremony on the Mall might be considered if Paris somewhat starts a trend of non-stadium openers.

They learnt the lessons of the Diamond Jubilee embarrassment - like don't use a river. I think Paris might've been better off using the Champs Elysées and Place de la Concorde rather than the Seine, for something like the Mall parade this time. Not like it's not iconic enough. I hope the Olympics ceremony does live up to its promise - I've only just got used to England being not-rubbish at football, the idea we'd put on a better artistic street spectacle than France really is inverted world territory :lol:

Edit: I don't know when we realised we could do the big spectacle just as well as the traditional pomp, probably in 2012. I remember the trepidation before the ceremonies then, it went right up to when it started lol. Don't feel any of that ahead of Birmingham tbh, I'm sure it'll be good. I feel like this area of the arts here doesn't get enough publicity - there's clearly huge amounts of talent and creativity in it but they only get major publicity at massive events like once every few years, if that. Even the giant dragon thing from the jubilee had apparently starred in a big event in Plymouth last year, don't remember any attention in the national media. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Of course he is but for UK Athletics I can't really see the justification now that Birmingham has been revamped - I doubt the one Diamond League event a year pays that bill.

Obviously a shame in terms of whether it would then be available for any future London Olympic Games but it's probably not a done deal that it would be used in the way it was in 2012 anyway given the downsizing since.    And it's very rare "legacy" plans seems to include the possibility of reusing venues in a future Olympic bid.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Possible UK bid for 1936 or 2040.

“Next Wednesday (July 27), the 10th anniversary of London’s spectacular Olympic Games of 2012 - ranking alongside those of Sydney 2000 and Barcelona 1992 - will be celebrated at the City’s Guildhall.”

 

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If the IOC are willing to go smaller on the athletics stadium, then Birmingham is available. Between what's already there, the Commonwealth Games legacy, and remaining bits of the NEC, I'm sure most of the venues needed for an Olympics can be found somewhere in the Midlands. Same goes for Glasgow/Edinburgh I imagine, although I'm less certain about the venues up there. The north west can probably do most of the other venues, but the stadium is a problem there. 

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2 hours ago, yoshi said:

If the IOC are willing to go smaller on the athletics stadium, then Birmingham is available. Between what's already there, the Commonwealth Games legacy, and remaining bits of the NEC, I'm sure most of the venues needed for an Olympics can be found somewhere in the Midlands. Same goes for Glasgow/Edinburgh I imagine, although I'm less certain about the venues up there. The north west can probably do most of the other venues, but the stadium is a problem there. 

Yeah the IOC is open for smaller arenas, but the moment rome, istanbul or berlin proposes their 70k spectators and compact EXISTING venues any offer smaller than that is dead, unless of course GB actually proposes LONDON

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2 hours ago, BigVic said:

The Gabba which will serve as the main stadium for Brisbane 2032 will seat 52,000 meaking it one of the smaller Olympic Stadiums in recent memories. 

52,000 is still far greater than what an expanded Alexander Stadium could offer at 30,000. While the IOC can say they are open to venues of smaller capacities, the IOC and World Athletics both know higher capacity stadiums mean more spectators in seats which equals more money.  That's precisely why a northern England bid would have trouble up against the likes of Rome, Barcelona, or Shanghai. It's about the money, and I highly suspect in this "dialogue" that the IOC is telling the UK it has to be London.

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Yeah, the lack of set minimum capacities doesn't mean the IOC is going to accept a 30k stadium!

It's difficult to see an obvious solution for the athletics stadium outside of London that doesn't involve building from scratch, and we've heard nothing but vague generalities about a non-London Olympic bid. And when it comes to London our mayor seems keen, but we've got a government that doesn't want to give the city or its mayor any wins.

I'll believe any UK bid for 2036 when I see it.

Edited by Rob.
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There is of course the third option of London hosting the athletics and one or other 'awkward' sports, and spreading other events out across the country. Khan was talking about this idea when he first mooted a 2036 bid, but I've not heard it mentioned since. You could even have the ceremonies in Manchester, at a refurbished Old Trafford.

That may be a compromise that works politically, but whether the IOC will like it much (there's spread out, then there's  s  p  r  e  a  d    o  u  t) is an open question.

Edited by Rob.
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On 5/26/2022 at 7:10 PM, Rob. said:

But it seems like we may be heading for the 2012 legacy being binned and the taxpayer funded stadium intended for our Olympians being handed over to a wealthy EPL club. Which is a travesty tbh.

It wouldn't be a travesty if it does end up happening. It would be a grade A national scandal, an obscenity. I have nothing against West Ham but if they want to do as they wish with the stadium, they should refund every last penny of public money that has gone into it. If they won't do that, no deal. Simple as that.

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This is probably worth a separate thread but I think it does hint at issues any new London bid would have to overcome if it is to be considered a serious one.

BBC Sport - London 2012: Ten years on, what lessons can we learn from London’s legacy?

It seems ridiculous to think that 10 years ago today, I was at Hampden Park, Glasgow watching the early stages of the football tournament on the eve of the opening ceremony. It was a magical period to be British, a period that is perhaps more painful to reflect on now given subsequent events. But, if there is to be a new London bid in the near future, then people will rightly scrutinise the record of the 2012 Games and the answer to the question of whether it delivered what was promised will be crucial.

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17 hours ago, arwebb said:

This is probably worth a separate thread but I think it does hint at issues any new London bid would have to overcome if it is to be considered a serious one.

BBC Sport - London 2012: Ten years on, what lessons can we learn from London’s legacy?

It seems ridiculous to think that 10 years ago today, I was at Hampden Park, Glasgow watching the early stages of the football tournament on the eve of the opening ceremony. It was a magical period to be British, a period that is perhaps more painful to reflect on now given subsequent events. But, if there is to be a new London bid in the near future, then people will rightly scrutinise the record of the 2012 Games and the answer to the question of whether it delivered what was promised will be crucial.

I don't know. I think it's a bit unfair to blame the London Olympics for an increase in obesity and a decline in PE classes (as an administrator in education this is something I've fought against for years). Ultimately there should've been more coordination between London 2012, the government, and communities at a grassroots level and that never materialized, but I would hardly say London 2012 is too blame. Now what I do see as a challenge for a future London Olympics is the age-old question, Why host again? What is the goal? What is the message? IMO that's the main issue a future London bid has to sort out.

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Really is depressing to see where Britian is today compared to where it was a decade ago for London 2012.  

I'm not too enthused by a games returning that quickly (I think another European city needs to host before we consider bidding again) but I think Birmingham 2022 shows there are other options for the Olympic Stadium than a stadium to be converted for football if they were out of London.   Yes, scaling the Alexander Stadium up to 80,000 on a temporary basis might be tricky, but 50,000 or so would probably be possible.   It just becomes a question of cost - how much does a temporary stadium cost as opposed to a legacy stadium which needs converting.

FWIW if the Olympics did return to London I'm not even convinced the London Stadium would be the host venue.   It's already being used less and less for athletics and I can see West Ham wanting to buy it out at some point to convert it properly.       

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Yeah I think the next British bid would need to be not-London - as you say there's not really much angle London has again, beyond "give us the Olympics because we're a city that doesn't hate it". So to be compelling (and to feel different) it'd have to be Birmingham or Manchester or Glasgow. And it's too soon, Germany, Spain etc are in line first, and if we're going to see a multi-city, national games pioneered, I'd love to see the Netherlands do it. Part of why 2012 was so special is that it's rare, this isn't the Commonwealth Games coming back to the UK every 12-20 years. 

As for the stadium, I can't see West Ham not buying it out by this time next year, once UKA have gone to Brum. They've got big money owner now, so I guess they'll copy the Spurs bid - Luzhniki the stadium bowl and chuck some crumbs at doing up Crystal Palace. Maybe Croydon might get its Olympic stadium after all :P

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On 7/27/2022 at 8:21 AM, Brekkie Boy said:

Really is depressing to see where Britian is today compared to where it was a decade ago for London 2012.  

I'm not too enthused by a games returning that quickly (I think another European city needs to host before we consider bidding again) but I think Birmingham 2022 shows there are other options for the Olympic Stadium than a stadium to be converted for football if they were out of London.   Yes, scaling the Alexander Stadium up to 80,000 on a temporary basis might be tricky, but 50,000 or so would probably be possible.   It just becomes a question of cost - how much does a temporary stadium cost as opposed to a legacy stadium which needs converting.

FWIW if the Olympics did return to London I'm not even convinced the London Stadium would be the host venue.   It's already being used less and less for athletics and I can see West Ham wanting to buy it out at some point to convert it properly.       

Alexander Stadium likely cannot be expanded beyond 30,000 given its location (it`s bordered by housing, the reservoir, the park, and GMAC). As for other European cities bidding, well, as much as I'd like to see the SOGs go back to Rome or perhaps Germany (I still like the Rhine-Rhur idea over Berlin), the IOC`s reputation is still in the mud and I think that gives London an advantage given the fact that most of the troublesome facilities such as the athletics stadium, velodrome, and the whitewater course are still ready to go so sustainability is a good starting point. 

The fact that London has the athletics stadium I think is enough to sink any bid from the likes of Birmingham, Manchester, or even Glasgow (isn`t part of the renovation of Hampden Park going to be removing the athletics track?) simply because temporary stadiums on a large scale are not viable financially and no football club (none of the clubs need a new stadium anyways) is going to accept taking over a stadium post-Olympics and spend the cash to convert it to a football-friendly venue.

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On 7/27/2022 at 1:14 PM, stryker said:

I don't know. I think it's a bit unfair to blame the London Olympics for an increase in obesity and a decline in PE classes (as an administrator in education this is something I've fought against for years). Ultimately there should've been more coordination between London 2012, the government, and communities at a grassroots level and that never materialized, but I would hardly say London 2012 is too blame. Now what I do see as a challenge for a future London Olympics is the age-old question, Why host again? What is the goal? What is the message? IMO that's the main issue a future London bid has to sort out.

I think you're right to highlight the issues of aspiration and message, but it seems to me that they are entwined with the broader question of the 2012 record and any city that is considering a fresh bid when its previous hosting is within the memory of a large proportion of the population would have a similar issue. I get the sense, from the admittedly little I've read, that Vancouver is experiencing a similar issue in respect of whether or not to go for 2030 and I suspect it may well have been a factor in Calgary not going for 2026 too. 

On 7/28/2022 at 8:08 PM, stryker said:

The fact that London has the athletics stadium I think is enough to sink any bid from the likes of Birmingham, Manchester, or even Glasgow (isn`t part of the renovation of Hampden Park going to be removing the athletics track?) simply because temporary stadiums on a large scale are not viable financially and no football club (none of the clubs need a new stadium anyways) is going to accept taking over a stadium post-Olympics and spend the cash to convert it to a football-friendly venue.

Hampden was only ever intended to be a temporary athletics venue for the 2014 Commonwealths. I have a feeling the track was relaid nearby but I'm not certain of that. I'd agree that a London bid still seems more realistic than any other British option and that could well remain the case even if UK Athletics does move away from the 2012 stadium.

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11 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

I think the IOC should get away from the whack-a-mole format of past games, where cities from A to Z jockey to host a summer or winter Olympics, and maybe return to previous hosts. Although I think the 2012 games came off a goofball event, that doesn't mean London shouldn't play host again.

Cities still need to offer themselves up and put forth a bid.  The IOC can only select from those cities.  We have very much moved away from that old format already.  It used to be open bidding for whoever wanted to try and wow the IOC.  Nowadays, the IOC is going to be more discerning with the cities they deal with

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