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London 2036


stryker
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Nah, nothing like the same. :lol: His selection by the Tories was a sign they'd given up on the Mayoral contest before it even began.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/london-mayoral-election-2020/london-mayoral-election-winner-2020

Funny he's jumped on the Olympic hosting bandwagon for easy headlines though. If nothing else, it demonstrates what I was saying in earlier posts about how positively London 2012 is remembered.

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  • 1 year later...
On 6/24/2019 at 8:59 PM, Roger87 said:

Mentioned:

-Madrid 

-A Russian one (Most likely Saint Petersburg)

-Rhein-Rhur

 

Potential:

-Istanbul

-Budapest

This is the correct answer in a nutshell.  These are your real European candidates, along with London

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  • 4 weeks later...

Reports this morning suggest he's looking at it being a UK bid centred on London. Now, this could be electioneering (we're voting on Thursday), but it's fun to speculate anyway...

I guess as a starting point you'd look at the temporary venues from London 2012 and work out which existing venues in other UK cities could fill in the gaps. So basketball in Manchester or Liverpool maybe?

Then look at the semi-temporary venues and see if it's better to expand them temporarily again or move the sport elsewhere. The biggie here is swimming. I think it'd be tricky af to get London's Aquatics Centre back up to a large capacity. Swimming in Glasgow?

Then look at what's left and decide if the balance is right and, even if London has a good venue, whether it'd be better to host the sport elsewhere. Could the NEC in Birmingham replace the ExCel, for example?

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13 hours ago, Rob. said:

Swimming in Glasgow?

The Tollcross International Swimming Centre only has a capacity of 5000 even with temporary seating.
 

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18 hours ago, Rob. said:

Reports this morning suggest he's looking at it being a UK bid centred on London. Now, this could be electioneering (we're voting on Thursday), but it's fun to speculate anyway...

I guess as a starting point you'd look at the temporary venues from London 2012 and work out which existing venues in other UK cities could fill in the gaps. So basketball in Manchester or Liverpool maybe?

Then look at the semi-temporary venues and see if it's better to expand them temporarily again or move the sport elsewhere. The biggie here is swimming. I think it'd be tricky af to get London's Aquatics Centre back up to a large capacity. Swimming in Glasgow?

Then look at what's left and decide if the balance is right and, even if London has a good venue, whether it'd be better to host the sport elsewhere. Could the NEC in Birmingham replace the ExCel, for example?

Does a UK bid with London really need to partner with venues outside of football stadiums in places like Glasgow, Manchester, or Liverpool though? I know this all part of the New Norm but the appealing thought about a fourth London Olympics is that London can more or less still hold the whole thing, guaranteeing a compact bid. I mentioned earlier in the thread, EXCEL could easily be the IBC/MPC centre. Move the events from 2012 held at EXCEL to Olympia London and Alexandra Palace. Move tennis to either Queens Club or the Lea Valley Tennis and Hockey Centre. Wimbledon Centre Court and Court #1 with retractable roofs can host volleyball, handball, or basketball prelims. The London Aquatic Centre could host water polo (it has about the same capacity in legacy mode as Tatsumi Aquatic Centre in Tokyo). The challenge will be an aquatic centre for most of the swimming events. A temporary aquatics stadium is too costly (Paris rightly figured this out). Perhaps aquatics could be held with a temporary pool in an existing football stadium such as the Emirates or Tottenham's new stadium? Then there's the troublesome issue of an Olympic Village but I would like to think London will need more affordable housing somewhere by 2036 or 2040. I'll be interested in seeing how Birmingham's approach to the CWG village plays out. Birmingham scrapped a new village in favor of existing university housing at three separate universities. Perhaps London could do something similar? 

Of course if West Ham decides to buy the Olympic Stadium and renovate where an athletics track can no longer be used, then a London bid gets a lot more complicated.

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48 minutes ago, stryker said:

Wimbledon Centre Court and Court #1 with retractable roofs can host volleyball, handball, or basketball prelims.

I'd be surprised if the All England Lawn Tennis Club would allow their stadiums to be used like this.

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5 hours ago, stryker said:

Does a UK bid with London really need to partner with venues outside of football stadiums in places like Glasgow, Manchester, or Liverpool though? I know this all part of the New Norm but the appealing thought about a fourth London Olympics is that London can more or less still hold the whole thing, guaranteeing a compact bid. I mentioned earlier in the thread, EXCEL could easily be the IBC/MPC centre. Move the events from 2012 held at EXCEL to Olympia London and Alexandra Palace. Move tennis to either Queens Club or the Lea Valley Tennis and Hockey Centre. Wimbledon Centre Court and Court #1 with retractable roofs can host volleyball, handball, or basketball prelims. The London Aquatic Centre could host water polo (it has about the same capacity in legacy mode as Tatsumi Aquatic Centre in Tokyo). The challenge will be an aquatic centre for most of the swimming events. A temporary aquatics stadium is too costly (Paris rightly figured this out). Perhaps aquatics could be held with a temporary pool in an existing football stadium such as the Emirates or Tottenham's new stadium? Then there's the troublesome issue of an Olympic Village but I would like to think London will need more affordable housing somewhere by 2036 or 2040. I'll be interested in seeing how Birmingham's approach to the CWG village plays out. Birmingham scrapped a new village in favor of existing university housing at three separate universities. Perhaps London could do something similar? 

Of course if West Ham decides to buy the Olympic Stadium and renovate where an athletics track can no longer be used, then a London bid gets a lot more complicated.

RE: my post and the need for other cities to be involved, I guess I was just playing with possibilities and taking my cue from what Khan said:

"By ensuring the Games are staged across the UK, and visitors encouraged and supported to explore every corner of our country, London 2036 or 2040 could be a huge boost to levelling up our cities and regions."

That suggests more than token involvement. As I said last year in this thread, politics in this country is anti-London at the moment, so this might be the only way a bid even gets off the ground. It conveniently fits with the IOC's current direction too.

As with multi-nation world cup bids which are the new norm under Infantino, I'm not completely won over on regional/national Olympic bids which are the new norm under Bach. But it's what's happening, so I guess we go with it. Our world cup bid is a UK one, not just England, with the all the complications that brings. Could we see a UK Olympic bid centred on London too? Possibly.

Edited by Rob.
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On 5/5/2021 at 2:05 PM, Rob. said:

 

That suggests more than token involvement. As I said last year in this thread, politics in this country is anti-London at the moment, so this might be the only way a bid even gets off the ground. It conveniently fits with the IOC's current direction too.

As with multi-nation world cup bids which are the new norm under Infantino, I'm not completely won over on regional/national Olympic bids which are the new norm under Bach. But it's what's happening, so I guess we go with it. Our world cup bid is a UK one, not just England, with the all the complications that brings. Could we see a UK Olympic bid centred on London too? Possibly.

I am starting to think that some future bidders are using the new rules to perhaps pursue a more regional bid even if it is not entirely necessary. I am not entirely in favor of the regional/national idea either unless it's necessary for a city that cannot pull off the compact bid in a cost-effective manner like Brisbane. London is one of those that can still do it though. In terms of the political angle, is this more of the populists in working class places that view those governing in London as out of touch similar to how in the U.S. many Trump supporters in the midwest and south view the big cities on both coasts (NYC, LA, SF)? A former colleague of mine from Hull said as much. So if you're looking for something to bring the country together, I suppose it's a start. Speaking of which, looks like it's not just the Olympics or WC that is on the UK's radar.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1107475/uk-sport-major-events-strategic-plan

On 5/5/2021 at 9:51 AM, ulu said:

I'd be surprised if the All England Lawn Tennis Club would allow their stadiums to be used like this.

I didn't think of this initially. Definitely more of a challenge than using a hard or clay court. I'm sure the grass could be protected (I'm not knowledgeable on WImbledon's groundkeeping but is it possible to roll up the grass and remove it?). If Wimbledon isn't an option then the likes of preliminary volleyball, handball, or basketball could easily be moved to Birmingham. If MSG ends up building the MSG London Sphere (it's supposed to be identical to the MSG Las Vegas Sphere) that gives London another option for indoor sports such as boxing, judo, wresting, and taekwondo. 

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If West Ham does follow through with plans to remove the track, are there any alternative london fanbases that have the marketability to justify another large stadium?  West Ham's unique situation seemed to fit like a glove for multiple parties.  It just made sense.  But are there any other London clubs where that might make sense without moving too far away from their fanbase?  I know Fulham and Crystal palace are working on expansion but those are absolutely not anywhere close to the scale of happening.  

I know QPR was talking about going big for a long time, but after their brief forray in the EPL years back, that seems to not be a thing anymore.  Do they even have the fanbase to swing that for south London?  What about Charlton?  Millwall.......welll........not Millwall, lol.  Looking at a map, Charlton seems to have the most location-wise sense.  But I have no idea about that fanbase.  Is it a sleeping giant or no not at all?

 

 

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I don't see any point in spreading things about. London has existing venues and can host on its own. A northern England bid of Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield would have to build new venues (for athletics maybe a new stadium for Everton?) but they have quite a few existing facilities (large arenas, the velodrome in Manchester, etc) and certainly have the population base to host the games on their own. Why not pick one area or the other?

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2 hours ago, Nacre said:

for athletics maybe a new stadium for Everton?

Everton have planning permission for a new stadium, and construction should start this year. There's no scope for athletics in the plans.

 

 

Edited by Rob.
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20 hours ago, iceman530 said:

If West Ham does follow through with plans to remove the track, are there any alternative london fanbases that have the marketability to justify another large stadium?

Whatever grumblings West Ham's fans have about the layout, the track is not going anywhere. It's not their stadium, it's publicly owned and British Athletics has a 50 year contract to host events there each summer.

If the track does go, any prospect of a London bid would disappear with it.

Edited by Rob.
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4 hours ago, Rob. said:

Everton have planning permission for a new stadium, and construction should start this year. There's no scope for athletics in the plans.

 

 

That is going to be an absolutely gorgeous stadium.  To this day, I am bewildered that Liverpool didn't implement the Stanley Park plans.  It seems pretty short-sighted of them for merely expanding Anfield.

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On 5/11/2021 at 3:41 AM, iceman530 said:

If West Ham does follow through with plans to remove the track, are there any alternative london fanbases that have the marketability to justify another large stadium?  West Ham's unique situation seemed to fit like a glove for multiple parties.  It just made sense.  But are there any other London clubs where that might make sense without moving too far away from their fanbase?  I know Fulham and Crystal palace are working on expansion but those are absolutely not anywhere close to the scale of happening.  

I know QPR was talking about going big for a long time, but after their brief forray in the EPL years back, that seems to not be a thing anymore.  Do they even have the fanbase to swing that for south London?  What about Charlton?  Millwall.......welll........not Millwall, lol.  Looking at a map, Charlton seems to have the most location-wise sense.  But I have no idea about that fanbase.  Is it a sleeping giant or no not at all?

 

 

West Ham has expressed interest in buying the London Olympic Stadium. If that transaction were to go ahead, then the athletics track is gone making a London bid more complicated as there really are no clubs either seeking a new stadium let alone wanting one with an athletics track. Clubs like Charlton or QPR don't have the fanbase to fill a 50,000 seater. Forget the ridiculous idea of scaling down a 60,000-70,000 seat stadium to some between 20,000 and 30,000 either. I brought this up in the Birmingham thread, but with Alexander Stadium set to be renovated for the 2022 CWGs there was some chatter a couple months ago that UK Athletics would seek to move to Birmingham which might accelerate a sale of the Olympic Stadium to West Ham. 

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18 hours ago, stryker said:

West Ham has expressed interest in buying the London Olympic Stadium. If that transaction were to go ahead, then the athletics track is gone making a London bid more complicated as there really are no clubs either seeking a new stadium let alone wanting one with an athletics track. Clubs like Charlton or QPR don't have the fanbase to fill a 50,000 seater. Forget the ridiculous idea of scaling down a 60,000-70,000 seat stadium to some between 20,000 and 30,000 either. I brought this up in the Birmingham thread, but with Alexander Stadium set to be renovated for the 2022 CWGs there was some chatter a couple months ago that UK Athletics would seek to move to Birmingham which might accelerate a sale of the Olympic Stadium to West Ham. 

What's West Ham's debt situation like now?  I know for the longest time it was pretty sky high.  Did they beat that debt figure down a bit?

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Not sure about West Ham's finances, but I speculate that due to the economic downturn caused by the covid-19 pandemic, the club is hoping the city will come down on the price. Haven't heard much about it recently. The most recent chatter was December last year. As far as the current situation, who knows?

https://www.hammers.news/columnist/is-david-sullivans-grand-plan-coming-together-at-west-ham-as-london-stadium-is-valued-at-just-1-5m/

If the stadium is only worth that much, then I would think it's reasonable that West Ham could make a bid for it.

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Well maybe if Sadiq really is serious about making it a truly national bid, we could just stick the athletics in Birmingham - isn't it only the ceremonies need to take place in the named host city, and we've got a Wembley for that. More seriously, wouldn't they rebuild Crystal Palace for athletics in London if Stratford's gone, since the track is already there - if there's no other use for it after, we could surely palm the stadium off in some form to the Eagles, now they finally seem properly established in the Premier League & not as though they could go down at any time... either that or pull a 92 and have the whole bid in Birmingham instead - the city's on the up, most things will be there after 22, and the IOC are beggars now...there are worse ideas*

*Doha for example :ph34r:

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9 hours ago, stryker said:

Not sure about West Ham's finances, but I speculate that due to the economic downturn caused by the covid-19 pandemic, the club is hoping the city will come down on the price. Haven't heard much about it recently. The most recent chatter was December last year. As far as the current situation, who knows?

https://www.hammers.news/columnist/is-david-sullivans-grand-plan-coming-together-at-west-ham-as-london-stadium-is-valued-at-just-1-5m/

If the stadium is only worth that much, then I would think it's reasonable that West Ham could make a bid for it.

 

God, if thats the price, I would hope they......"snap their hands off" (I believe thats the saying, anyways)

There is always a catch, and the catch will be stadium upkeep, which is rumored to also be significant.

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Laughably biased article. UKA doesn't want to give up its London home, and has a contract for years to host events there.

And it would make the Dildo brothers and Brady out to be liars. They made great play of continuing the athletics legacy at the stadium versus the bid by Spurs that didn't. If that's now a problem, tough.

Edited by Rob.
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On 5/18/2021 at 2:43 AM, yoshi said:

Well maybe if Sadiq really is serious about making it a truly national bid, we could just stick the athletics in Birmingham - isn't it only the ceremonies need to take place in the named host city, and we've got a Wembley for that. More seriously, wouldn't they rebuild Crystal Palace for athletics in London if Stratford's gone, since the track is already there - if there's no other use for it after, we could surely palm the stadium off in some form to the Eagles, now they finally seem properly established in the Premier League & not as though they could go down at any time... either that or pull a 92 and have the whole bid in Birmingham instead - the city's on the up, most things will be there after 22, and the IOC are beggars now...there are worse ideas*

*Doha for example :ph34r:

I think the only way Birmingham could be a focus of a northern England bid would be if a new stadium was built that Birmingham City could take over. In the early 2000s, the club looked at a 55,000 seat stadium that would be funded by Las Vegas Sands but the deal collapsed I believe after a dispute over a casino onsite. Alexander Stadium, even with its redevelopment, is not big enough for the Olympics. To my knowledge Birmingham City has no current interest in leaving St. Andrew's. 

The IOC are definitely beggars at this point which is why if the UK went for a regional bid (even though it's not necessary) I'm sure they'd gladly accept. I wouldn't worry about the likes of Doha, Jakarta, or Delhi. The IOC has made it clear albeit not explicity that no bids from the Middle East or the developing world are going to be accepted. If the UK throws its hat in the ring for 2036, it will be a leading contender. After the IOC's swift move to lock up Brisbane for 2032, perhaps Khan thinks if they start this process now, maybe the IOC will move on a UK bid for 2036. When you consider the only real safe options for a SOGs are western Europe, Russia, the U.S., Korea, Australia, and China, the IOC doesn't have a lot of options. I left Japan out since Tokyo is on pace to be the most expensive Olympics in history and such a loss financially that it will be decades (I say 2050s) before Japan bids again.

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So you think Great Britain are one of the only possibilities in Europe in 2036, because problems in Germany national comitee, and other problems in the south (spain italy), frence has already in 2024... But what about a regional games Copenhagen/Malmø? Is that so unreal? To small venues? Do you think that IOC will accept smaller venues if the games are good? or is there a buttom limet for venue capacity you think? 

 

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