The Milan Cortina Italy thread

[WD96]

8 minutes ago, Shadowriver said:

Well milano wins gz ;]

With Milan, 2026 will be big for the Italian Olympic team because it is the year where both games held in 2006 and 1956 will have their anniversaries.

[Shadowriver]

1 minute ago, WD96 said:

With Milan, 2026 will be big for the Italian Olympic team because it is the year where both games held in 2006 and 1956 will have their anniversaries.

Also Torino was in 2006 :>

[Shadowriver]

Btw Val di Fiemme ski jumping hill is considered lucky to Polish jumpers so im happy in this in this perspective ;]

[baron-pierreIV]

I wonder if Marco Ballich supervised the Milano-Cortina bid presentation?  But I bet he's more than happy now that Milano will host (again)!  

[mountainboarder_530@yahoo.]

this was the right bid and the right pick, Italy saved the IOC's butt.  Reminds me a lot of Nashville's MLS expansion bid.  Last one in, but they were in it to win it and rode it out while others dropped out.

[anthonyliberatori]

Great choice. Hopefully the increased train service to Cortina become a regular thing so Italy can capitalize on the skiing business during the season for years to come. That makes it very easy for tourists to fly into MXP, a major airport, and then take the train right to Cortina. Ensures longevity with tourism.

 

Ultimately, this was the right choice. Stockholm/Are/Latvia was not in favor of the people and opened up a marketing nightmare we all know the IOC did not want to have to deal with if they didn't have to. Milan/Cortina's "two cluster" approach is very similar to those of Vancouver, Sochi and Pyeongchang, which I personally think is an good way to utilize existing infrastructure from an urban area, develop a smaller winter resort town nearby, and hope a tourism business sticks. Also, the support in Italy is immense, and the proximity to nearby countries ensures full venues for events like speed skating (the dutch), curling (the swedes), downhill skiing (Germans, Austrians, French, and the Italians themselves), and Ice Hockey (Germans, Swedes, Finns, and even the Italians since it's growing so much). Really a win to get back to the Alps and as long as all goes well, we should see cities like Calgary, Sapporo, and even Salt Lake coming back eager to host - which would make the IOC elated.

[stryker]

On 9/15/2019 at 8:16 PM, anthonyliberatori said:

Great choice. Hopefully the increased train service to Cortina become a regular thing so Italy can capitalize on the skiing business during the season for years to come. That makes it very easy for tourists to fly into MXP, a major airport, and then take the train right to Cortina. Ensures longevity with tourism.

 

Ultimately, this was the right choice. Stockholm/Are/Latvia was not in favor of the people and opened up a marketing nightmare we all know the IOC did not want to have to deal with if they didn't have to. Milan/Cortina's "two cluster" approach is very similar to those of Vancouver, Sochi and Pyeongchang, which I personally think is an good way to utilize existing infrastructure from an urban area, develop a smaller winter resort town nearby, and hope a tourism business sticks. Also, the support in Italy is immense, and the proximity to nearby countries ensures full venues for events like speed skating (the dutch), curling (the swedes), downhill skiing (Germans, Austrians, French, and the Italians themselves), and Ice Hockey (Germans, Swedes, Finns, and even the Italians since it's growing so much). Really a win to get back to the Alps and as long as all goes well, we should see cities like Calgary, Sapporo, and even Salt Lake coming back eager to host - which would make the IOC elated.

I'm not convinced Milan-Cortina is the bid that saves the WOGs and gets some traditional winter sports powers back into bidding. For starters, this bid was originally supposed to include Torino because many of the sports venues either need extensive renovations (Cortina sliding track) or have to be built from scratch (ice hockey arenas, speed skating oval). Torino had the venues for ice hockey and speed skating already and they'd only need minor renovations. Unfortunately, the respective city governments couldn't agree so now Milan is going to foot the bill and the price could easily get of hand. In fact, I predict that once cost figures start coming out, you will see a movement to get Torino on board. I find the public support in Milan to be a bit of a head scratcher and that we've only seen one poll that gave any numbers. 

In terms of seeing whether or not the IOC's reforms could truly work, IMO Stockholm had the better bid, but as has been mentioned, the public support simply was not there and the IOC probably didn't want a nightmare scenario where the games were given back because of an upswell of people against hosting. I wouldn't call Milan-Cortina a great choice, rather it was the best of a bad lot.

[StefanMUC]

On 9/15/2019 at 6:16 PM, anthonyliberatori said:

Great choice. Hopefully the increased train service to Cortina become a regular thing so Italy can capitalize on the skiing business during the season for years to come. That makes it very easy for tourists to fly into MXP, a major airport, and then take the train right to Cortina. Ensures longevity with tourism.

Nobody will ever fly to Malpensa for going skiing in Cortina. That’s madness to assume people would do this.

I haven’t studied exact plans for this “increased train service” to Cortina, but certainly the topography there doesn’t really lend itself to high speed connections unless at absolutely extreme financial and environmental costs. Even getting there by road was quite a stretch (from Verona/Venice), as far as I remember.

[anthonyliberatori]

37 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Nobody will ever fly to Malpensa for going skiing in Cortina. That’s madness to assume people would do this.

I have done this, LOL.

 

It's not unheard of to fly into the major regional international airport for the region and then take a train or rent a car and drive to the slopes. Cortina is about 4 hours by car from Malpensa, just as Vail is about 2 hours from Denver Intl Airport, and Whistler is 3 hours from YVR. Granted, there are closer, smaller airports, but it's not unheard of to take the direct flight to the major airport and drive.

 

More so of what I was going for was that international ski tourism should increase for Italy. From an American perspective, France, Switzerland and Austria are the usual go-tos for Euro skiing, as they're the most well-connected by air routes and popular with the Brits, so we can speak English. Not that the Olympics have been known to turn every host city into a lasting premier destination, but maybe now Italian skiing will cross the mind of more international tourists. You're right, Cortina may be hard to get to, but maybe that will land more tourists at other Italian ski towns.

[anthonyliberatori]

On 9/28/2019 at 3:07 PM, stryker said:

I'm not convinced Milan-Cortina is the bid that saves the WOGs and gets some traditional winter sports powers back into bidding. For starters, this bid was originally supposed to include Torino because many of the sports venues either need extensive renovations (Cortina sliding track) or have to be built from scratch (ice hockey arenas, speed skating oval). Torino had the venues for ice hockey and speed skating already and they'd only need minor renovations. Unfortunately, the respective city governments couldn't agree so now Milan is going to foot the bill and the price could easily get of hand. In fact, I predict that once cost figures start coming out, you will see a movement to get Torino on board. I find the public support in Milan to be a bit of a head scratcher and that we've only seen one poll that gave any numbers. 

In terms of seeing whether or not the IOC's reforms could truly work, IMO Stockholm had the better bid, but as has been mentioned, the public support simply was not there and the IOC probably didn't want a nightmare scenario where the games were given back because of an upswell of people against hosting. I wouldn't call Milan-Cortina a great choice, rather it was the best of a bad lot.

This is true, but I'm not too sure the building of these arenas in Milan is necessarily a bad thing. Milan has 3.6 million people, so there is a population there to uphold the venues. Italy won 3 golds at Pyeongchang after 0 in Sochi, and support for their ice hockey team has grown out of IIHF Worlds. While it may not be directly what the IOC wants in terms of arena recycling, it's not like Milan (and its metro area in North Italy, where the country's money is) will leave these venues empty. Vancouver was able to upkeep their venues and it's a much smaller city. Granted, Canada has a larger emphasis on the winter sports, but Italy also has other strong sports like Volleyball that could keep these small arenas functioning. 

 

However, I would also be okay with the incorporation of Turin. The IOC's goal should not be glitz, glamour, and new arenas. It should be getting host cities back and redefining what it means to host a sustainable Olympics. We will see what route Milan goes with this, but you are right in that including Turin would've been the responsible choice. 

[Quaker2001]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:16 PM, anthonyliberatori said:

Great choice. Hopefully the increased train service to Cortina become a regular thing so Italy can capitalize on the skiing business during the season for years to come. That makes it very easy for tourists to fly into MXP, a major airport, and then take the train right to Cortina. Ensures longevity with tourism.

 

Ultimately, this was the right choice. Stockholm/Are/Latvia was not in favor of the people and opened up a marketing nightmare we all know the IOC did not want to have to deal with if they didn't have to. Milan/Cortina's "two cluster" approach is very similar to those of Vancouver, Sochi and Pyeongchang, which I personally think is an good way to utilize existing infrastructure from an urban area, develop a smaller winter resort town nearby, and hope a tourism business sticks. Also, the support in Italy is immense, and the proximity to nearby countries ensures full venues for events like speed skating (the dutch), curling (the swedes), downhill skiing (Germans, Austrians, French, and the Italians themselves), and Ice Hockey (Germans, Swedes, Finns, and even the Italians since it's growing so much). Really a win to get back to the Alps and as long as all goes well, we should see cities like Calgary, Sapporo, and even Salt Lake coming back eager to host - which would make the IOC elated.

What stryker said.  What exactly about Milan/Cortina getting the 2026 Olympics is going to change anything for other prospective candidates?  Especially considering they won't actually be hosting for another 6 1/2 years.  Plus, look at the cities you listed.  Salt Lake is already as eager as could be.  They would have bid for 2026 if they could have and they'll 100% go for 2030 if the USOC gives them the green light (easier said than done due to LA 2028).  Sapporo will likely get in line right behind them.  Calgary?  Their 2026 bid effort was an absolute disaster.  I don't think we'll see them again for awhile.  Why would Milan/Cortina change anything for them?

You mentioned a key point.. Italy has support.  That may or may not translate over to other cities and countries.  This is not LA in 1984 where several previous hosts were plagued by political and financial issues.  The problem these days isn't with the hosts, it's with the IOC.  Italy is taking a leap of faith.  Sweden was going to although it may have been a somewhat half-hearted effort.  The IOC is in a good position that potentially Salt Lake and Sapporo are there for the next 2 cycles which give them 2 potentially low risk hosts.  Who else out there is willing to take that chance is the question

[Roger87]

The key success of the next Olympics will be related of how successful are the new host cities. At least in this time, both Olympics may count safe countries and cities which can develop proper projects without ending in white elephants and still they keep a respectable level of support. I think, for now, we may see returning hosts (especially on winter Olympics). Salt Lake City and Sapporo are ready, and then I can see next a French expansive Alpine host with Lyon as the main center (As becoming in the second most populous French metropolitan city. In an idea of Milan-Rome)

[WD96]

After the closing ceremony of the 2022 Olympics, the Olympic flag and the flame will travel the Silk Road.

[stryker]

With the devastation in the Lombardy region, not to mention the fact Italy's economy was teetering on recession before the COVID-19 outbreak, is it realistic whether or not to speculate whether will even have the money to pull this off. Granted 2026 is a ways away but no one knows what the full extent of economic damage there's going to be. Some economists are saying COVID19 will push the world into a second depression, one that rivals the Great Depression of the 1930s. There's time for it to recover but Italy is likely to be digging out of the hole so to speak for years.

[Quaker2001]

23 minutes ago, stryker said:

With the devastation in the Lombardy region, not to mention the fact Italy's economy was teetering on recession before the COVID-19 outbreak, is it realistic whether or not to speculate whether will even have the money to pull this off. Granted 2026 is a ways away but no one knows what the full extent of economic damage there's going to be. Some economists are saying COVID19 will push the world into a second depression, one that rivals the Great Depression of the 1930s. There's time for it to recover but Italy is likely to be digging out of the hole so to speak for years.

Too early to know what will happen to the world economy.  Yes, this has the potential to be a major blow to their finances, but speculation at this point is probably very premature

[Nacre]

3 hours ago, stryker said:

Some economists are saying COVID19 will push the world into a second depression, one that rivals the Great Depression of the 1930s.

It could be much worse than that. During the 1930's commerce still went on. My great grandfather even expanded his jewelry business during the Great Depression as people still got married and bought wedding and engagement rings. 

I spent a day last week volunteering at a food bank, and I saw first hand how many immunocompromised people there are in my community. The elderly, the obese and diabetic, people with cancer, et al make up a very large minority of the USA and Europe. But the cost of protecting these people may break the economies of the Western world.

3 hours ago, stryker said:

With the devastation in the Lombardy region, not to mention the fact Italy's economy was teetering on recession before the COVID-19 outbreak, is it realistic whether or not to speculate whether will even have the money to pull this off. 

On the flip side you could sell the Olympics as a stimulus for the Italian economy and a way to provide some employment.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Nacre

[StefanMUC]

I wonder, has the IOC actually expressed some solidarity with Italy/Lombardy? Or are they just too busy saving their skins from the Tokyo fallout?

[stryker]

On 3/30/2020 at 10:44 PM, StefanMUC said:

I wonder, has the IOC actually expressed some solidarity with Italy/Lombardy? Or are they just too busy saving their skins from the Tokyo fallout?

The IOC has said nothing. All their talk and focus has been on Tokyo and the damage the postponement will cause. In terms of finances, I know the Lombardy region is the wealthier part of Italy but I question whether that will even be enough for Milan to go through with all the costs needed. I was reading an editorial the other day on COVID19 and the world economy and one of the things mentioned was countries that have incurred high amounts of debt in fighting COVID19 like Italy who's already in huge debt anyways won't be able to pay it back. It will have to either be forgiven or Italy will default. A default would be enough IMO to end Milan's Olympic hopes.

[Quaker2001]

9 hours ago, stryker said:

The IOC has said nothing. All their talk and focus has been on Tokyo and the damage the postponement will cause. In terms of finances, I know the Lombardy region is the wealthier part of Italy but I question whether that will even be enough for Milan to go through with all the costs needed. I was reading an editorial the other day on COVID19 and the world economy and one of the things mentioned was countries that have incurred high amounts of debt in fighting COVID19 like Italy who's already in huge debt anyways won't be able to pay it back. It will have to either be forgiven or Italy will default. A default would be enough IMO to end Milan's Olympic hopes.

What exactly is the IOC supposed to say?  Have they said anything about France, speaking of areas hit hard by COVID-19?  There's no need for some sort of empty gesture when they have a much more pressing situation to deal with right in front of them.

There's only 2 ways the 2026 Olympics don't happen in Italy.  Either the IOC takes it away from them (no shot) or Italy hands it back.  Do you actually see that happening with a snap of your fingers like that?  It's never going to be that simple.  The entire world is feeling the effects of what's going on.  When we start to hear reports about uncertainly in Italy over the Olympics, then maybe it's worth discussion.  Until then, talking about the end of Milan's Olympic hopes is nothing more than baseless speculation

[StefanMUC]

Empty gestures are IOC core business these days

[stryker]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:10 PM, Quaker2001 said:

 

There's only 2 ways the 2026 Olympics don't happen in Italy.  Either the IOC takes it away from them (no shot) or Italy hands it back.  Do you actually see that happening with a snap of your fingers like that?  It's never going to be that simple.  The entire world is feeling the effects of what's going on.  When we start to hear reports about uncertainly in Italy over the Olympics, then maybe it's worth discussion.  Until then, talking about the end of Milan's Olympic hopes is nothing more than baseless speculation

Speculation yes. No one really knows how the world economy is going to come back from the biggest crisis since the Great Depression. Regarding Italy and the Olympics, no it's not a foregone conclusion and I agree really the only way Italy wouldn't host would be for them to give it back. It's a longshot given it's still 6 years away, but I'm considering it as speculation based on the fact that Italy is broke. They are approaching an economic crisis along the lines of what Greece dealt with in the 2000s and still hasn't recovered from. Italy will not be able to repay the debt they are incurring right now in the fight against COVID19. It either has to be forgiven in which case the banks in the EU that hold it will have to guarantee it if they want to survive. The other option is a default. A default would send shockwaves through the EU and lead to a decline in the value of the Euro so I would assume the banks would step in to guarantee that debt. So where would Italy get the money to pay for the Olympics? There'd still be time to trim the costs (I've hinted that I expect Torino ultimately to be a part of the Olympics as a cost cutting measure). I'm looking at it from a numbers perspective in terms of where the money comes from to pay for this, but yes, I'll say that the chances are that Italy doesn't give up the WOGs at least not in the near future, however, the longer the economic crisis drags on, the chances go up a bit.  

[mountainboarder_530@yahoo.]

This is going to have a new theme for Italy too.  I think at least some circles, theyre going to want to show this as a theme of resiliency and that we have recovered.  This is a wound that will only be just beginning to scar over, and money be darned, this will be viewed as a part of the healing process.  

 

By everyone?  No, of course there will be as many who think it is as frivelous as before, but there will be enough people who want to see it through over the finish line.

[mountainboarder_530@yahoo.]

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1100938/coni-letter-sports-minister

 

uh oh.........  How bad is this?  IOC may not like it but I think Italy has all the leverage to call their bluff

[StefanMUC]

20 hours ago, mountainboarder_530@yahoo. said:

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1100938/coni-letter-sports-minister

 

uh oh.........  How bad is this?  IOC may not like it but I think Italy has all the leverage to call their bluff

I love how the minister points out the IOC hypocrisy with Lukashenko. And I don‘t think the IOC would dare to take away 2026 (or at least suspend Italy) over this. There‘s clear dissatisfaction in German politics, for instance, too how the DOSB (our NOC) is governed and using funds. Italy may not be the last country to cut down the self-entitlement of sports authorities, it is well overdue already.

[mountainboarder_530@yahoo.]

Yup, I see it that way too.  Italy will call their bluff.  They know the IOC does not have a leg to stand on right now.  If there were like, 5-7 countries waiting in the wings to jump at it would be one thing.  But they only get to use the SLC parachute once, and I dont think they want to pull that string just yet.