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Brisbane 2032


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3 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

That actually brings up the question: Why didn‘t Bach pull all the strings to get it back to his home country? Some unpleasant answers for both him and German officials are hidden somewhere I guess.

Or perhaps it was simply that the tide was too much, even for Bach, by you-know-who.

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1 hour ago, Rob. said:

Hadn't thought of that. My hypothetical concern over such a big lead time and no competitive bid process is that you could see cities handing the Games back. If you have a government change 3/4 years into an eleven year build up and there's no momentum, just looming costs, a city might think there's plenty of time to make a u-turn (you could even, conceivably, see elections fought on scrapping or keeping the Games). The euphoria of winning a bid against a competitive field also inoculates against that too (e.g. we beat Paris to this, we've got to do it and do it well!).

A sudden market crash in a host nation three years after a Bachian annointment....well....

And I hadn’t thought of that - I guess the China problem is at the forefront of my mind at the moment. But, yes, while you’d like to think a stable well-off democracy was unlikely to turn feral, their weakness, especially in this day and age, would be they’re more vulnerable to a politicised populist “f*ck the IOC, we don’t need these games” pitch. The NOlympics crowd are getting better organised, are skilled at using social media, and would love to see such a scalp. And we’ve already seen referenda turn the issue.

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18 minutes ago, FYI said:

Sure, but as someone who values Olympic "evolution", you know that sometimes trumpets over glamor. It's not like Beijing, pre-2008, Seoul 1988 or even the highly-esteemed Barcelona 1992 Games, were somekind of glamour capitals before their awardings. Particularly in China's case, it was more about the 'evolution' part.

But Germany, a country of 85 million, hasn't hosted since 1972. Meanwhile, Australia, a nation of merely 25 million in comparison, will have hosted twice just this century alone. No Olympic evolution there.

And what about Budapest (a locale you yourself have championed before)? An Olympic sporting prowess that's never hosted before. Surely that could've been ideal for Olympic evolution's sake.

Hold on, I was the one that said the Ruhr proposal had merit. And yes, I’d love to see a Budapest games - if and hopefully when they turn away from their present authoritarian path. What I said was that in the line up that was emerging in a hypothetical campaign of the past year or so, Brisbane was more than competitive.  

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15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Would like to seeit elsewhere for a change.

The Ten Network covered the Olympics in the second half of the 1980s when Bruce Macavaney anchored and when his star and polish as a commentator really started to shine.  The 7 Network took notice of this, made him an offer and the rest is history.

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10 hours ago, FYI said:

Lol yeah, secret ballot. That's why it was floating around that most of the ones that did vote no, were the Chinese. As if there weren't ways to find out if they wanted to.

There are only 3 IOC Members from China.  

A secret ballot was conducted via individual portable electronic devices as it has been since the 2026 Winter Host Election in 2019 onwards.

Brisbane 2032 Votes:

72 Yes

5  No

3 Abstained

The winning margin was by a landslide 67 votes.  They don’t care who voted No.

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48 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Would like to seeit elsewhere for a change.

Victorian, you might be interested in this Ten Network clip from the 1988 Seoul Games showing a very young Bruce Macavaney co-anchoring. He just had the commentating gift from very early on.

1988 Network Ten Australia - Seoul Olympic Games telecast

 

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1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

And I hadn’t thought of that - I guess the China problem is at the forefront of my mind at the moment. But, yes, while you’d like to think a stable well-off democracy was unlikely to turn feral, their weakness, especially in this day and age, would be they’re more vulnerable to a politicised populist “f*ck the IOC, we don’t need these games” pitch. The NOlympics crowd are getting better organised, are skilled at using social media, and would love to see such a scalp. And we’ve already seen referenda turn the issue.

It doesn't even need to be a populist "f*ck the IOC" movement. If you're signing up cities with a long lead time, with relatively little transparency, a traditional right or left of centre party could make a moderate case for handing a Games back. If there's little sunk cost and no ongoing construction at that point (because of the longer lead time), and a feeling the incumbent government got the Games without consent in a behind-closed-doors deal, then you can easily see a circumstance where a new government says "no". It wouldn't even need to be a loud, populist protest for that to happen, just a chance in policy, a general feeling the Games aren't a priority.

So....long lead times could make the Games more vulnerable too all three forces - moderate democracy, populist movements and - as you say - swings toward authoritarianism.

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25 minutes ago, Rob. said:

It doesn't even need to be a populist "f*ck the IOC" movement. If you're signing up cities with a long lead time, with relatively little transparency, a traditional right or left of centre party could make a moderate case for handing a Games back. If there's little sunk cost and no ongoing construction at that point (because of the longer lead time), and a feeling the incumbent government got the Games without consent in a behind-closed-doors deal, then you can easily see a circumstance where a new government says "no". It wouldn't even need to be a loud, populist protest for that to happen, just a chance in policy, a general feeling the Games aren't a priority.

So....long lead times could make the Games more vulnerable too all three forces - moderate democracy, populist movements and - as you say - swings toward authoritarianism.

What the —- ?

No offence, but what you’re saying is absolute nonsense, fantasy.

When has an Olympic Host City ever handed back an Olympic Games in the modern era?   That is, broken the Host Contract?

A binding Olympic Host Contract is signed straight after the Host Announcement.

 

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2 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

What the —- ?

No offence, but what you’re saying is absolute nonsense, fantasy.

When has an Olympic Host City ever handed back an Olympic Games in the modern era?   That is, broken the Host Contract?

A binding Olympic Host Contract is signed straight after the Host Announcement.

 

And you think a democratically elected govt cannot cancel a contract with the IOC? Sure there would be legal fights and costs, but it‘s not like we‘re talking a country failing to fulfil international obligations (hello, Boris). That‘s something the IOC would like to be, on the same level as a country, but  in the end, even some months ago the Japanese govt was in a position that would have allowed them to pull the rug under Bach‘s feet with full approval of their electorate.

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12 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

One thing I’m also a bit ambivalent about is the new time spans. 2028 and 2032 have both been chosen with 11-year lead-ups. Now, that can be good in order to give the hosts more time to put together a long term preparation for their games, and I guess it helps the IOC get more peace of mind, but 11 years also gives a lot more time for hosts’ complexions to change. Even at seven years, Sochi might have seemed reasonable or even applaudable in 2007 but started going sour through Putin’s ambitions by 2014. And Beijing, while not even appealing then in 2015 was at least borderline acceptable, whereas now it’s a travesty of Berlin 1936 proportions (Berlin itself another that changed dramatically between choice and execution). Now I’m not saying the US or Australia are likely to turn fascist by the time of their hostings (though, let’s admit it, surely all of us have a nagging unease at what Trump might unleash in 2024), but the old saying is a week is a long time in politics. A decade plus can unleash all sorts of demons.

In addition just as not having enough time to get a project in place can be problematic having too much time can be so - you can end up spending money for the sake of it because you've got the extra time to do so, or just think "oh, it's 11 years away" and just put off starting anything for five years anyway.    I think most host committees end up changing their leader in the 7 year period anyway so it's possible that'll happen 2-3 times in an 11 year time frame - and as said above that's not to even mention changes in local and national government.   Campaigning against the cost of an Olympics is often an easy route into office, and even if they can't get out of hosting the games they can severely change the vision of those games.  Now sometimes that does need to happen, but it is disruptive.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

And you think a democratically elected govt cannot cancel a contract with the IOC? Sure there would be legal fights and costs, but it‘s not like we‘re talking a country failing to fulfil international obligations (hello, Boris). That‘s something the IOC would like to be, on the same level as a country, but  in the end, even some months ago the Japanese govt was in a position that would have allowed them to pull the rug under Bach‘s feet with full approval of their electorate.

I didn’t ask that.

I asked:

When has an Olympic Host City ever handed back an Olympic Games in the modern era?   That is, broken the Host Contract for an Olympic Games

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32 minutes ago, Brekkie Boy said:

In addition just as not having enough time to get a project in place can be problematic having too much time can be so - you can end up spending money for the sake of it because you've got the extra time to do so, or just think "oh, it's 11 years away" and just put off starting anything for five years anyway.    I think most host committees end up changing their leader in the 7 year period anyway so it's possible that'll happen 2-3 times in an 11 year time frame - and as said above that's not to even mention changes in local and national government.   Campaigning against the cost of an Olympics is often an easy route into office, and even if they can't get out of hosting the games they can severely change the vision of those games.  Now sometimes that does need to happen, but it is disruptive.

 

 

It doesn’t matter whether you have 7 or 11 years to get ready.

Once the Olympic Games Host Contract is signed, the clock starts ticking and you have IOC Coordination Commission breathing down your neck to make sure you’re doing what you signed up to do.

It does not matter if the government changes, or if a public opinion swings against the Games, or if the organisers change their socks, a legally binding Olympic Host Contract has been signed to stage the biggest sporting event on the planet.

That’s why I was asking, has a Host ever tried to break an Olympic Host Contract because they changed their minds? or for anybother reason?

Who would want to break a Host Contract to stage the “greatest show on earth”?

It’s not saying it can’t happen.

But, what are the chances?  Who would want to? 

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There's a strong argument for the lead time to be shrunk to 5 years (shortest it can be), not increased. Reduce the chances of handbacks, ensure that cities can't overdo their building because there isn't time to, make sure you need to use existing facilities and be creative because again, you haven't got time to build new - if a city wants to host that hasn't got loads of stuff ready like Paris or LA, use the 'dialogue' phase to build some of the venues or infrastructure as public facilities anyway - that way you get a legacy from even bidding, and the public can use them from way before the Games, benefitting the city, win or lose (if it's all done properly). 

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2 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

What the —- ?

No offence, but what you’re saying is absolute nonsense, fantasy.

When has an Olympic Host City ever handed back an Olympic Games in the modern era?   That is, broken the Host Contract?

A binding Olympic Host Contract is signed straight after the Host Announcement.

 

Your question is irrelevant since I'm speculating that a longer lead time could create the conditions where a city might hand back the Games. 11 years is a looong lead time, it's four years of sitting on your hands essentially. Any number of things could happen in that time, and if you haven't already sunk a load of money/time/construction into the Games (as a city would've done four years into a 7 year lead time) then there's less holding you back from making such a decision. And if the politics is going that way, or worse - if a new government comes in with that mandate - then it's very possible.

Of course, contractual issues would need to be worked out. I'm not saying it wouldn't be messy, or that this scenario would happen often. Just that that increased lead time increases the likelihood of such a scenario playing out.

I also think the relative lack of transparency and international competition in the bidding process would make this an easier path to follow too.

Maybe this would be better in a new thread. I'm not trying to make any insinuations about Brisbane or Australia here. This is purely about what the IOC is doing.

Edited by Rob.
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5 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

There are only 3 IOC Members from China.  

The winning margin was by a landslide 67 votes.  They don’t care who voted No.

I know how many Chinese IOC members there are. I don’t need you to tell me that.

The point was more about a “secret ballot” that someone else mentioned. As if that really means anything, & things can’t be found out regardless, if one in power really wanted to, in a pool of less than 100 people that you oversee anyway.

And of course “they don’t care” who voted no, when “they” ultimately got what they wanted anyway.

4 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

When has an Olympic Host City ever handed back an Olympic Games in the modern era?   That is, broken the Host Contract?

Ever heard of a city called Denver? 
 

'Colorado Would Be Laughing Stock of the World': Remembering Denver's Disastrous 1976 Olympic Bid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/olympics/2018/02/06/winter-games-denver-olympics-bids-1976
 

And before you say, but I said “modern era”, the Olympic Movement since it’s inception at the first Games in Athens 1896, is known as the modern era.

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8 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

I didn’t ask that.

I asked:

When has an Olympic Host City ever handed back an Olympic Games in the modern era?   That is, broken the Host Contract for an Olympic Games

Denver 1976

Oops, i just saw FYI already answered it. I looked a few posts down and was amazed no-one had mentioned Denver yet

Edited by Sir Rols
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8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Not Summer games 

Same host city contract. And the question didn’t specify summer or winter. It’s far from impossible and I agree that an 11 year lead time makes it that little more possible.

Okay, hypothetical. We know Pauline Hanson is defiantly anti the games. Say, in the next state election, One Nation captures a seat or two (this IS Qld, One Nation’s heartland). The LNP also pick up seats and One Nation holds the balance of power that would give them government if they ally, but their price would be to ditch 2032. What’s the LNP going to do? It’s not that far-fetched to posit that scenario, even in Oz.

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5 hours ago, FYI said:

Ever heard of a city called Denver? 

'Colorado Would Be Laughing Stock of the World': Remembering Denver's Disastrous 1976 Olympic Bid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/olympics/2018/02/06/winter-games-denver-olympics-bids-1976
 

Thanks, that is indeed a very interesting story of Denver handing back the 1976 Games as I’m reading it this morning plus some other reports as well.

I love how the the citizens petition delegation from Denver was able to gate-crash the IOC Executive Meeting in November at the 1972 Winter Games in Sapporo.

How a Citizen Revolt Snuffed the 1976 Denver Winter Olympics - Westword - July 30, 2021

     “Security was not nearly as tight as it would become after the terrorist attack at the Munich Summer Games a few months later, and the trio (with the petition) managed to dwardle near the door until IOC members started to wander out.

     “As the door opened and they (IOC EB members) were going on a break, *Estelle walked into the room and said,  ‘We’re here from Colorado, and we demand to be heard, “*Gelt recalls.  “And the place went nuts.”

(* Estelle Brown,  Howard Gelt, Citizens for Colorado)

————————

Sorry I digressed a bit there.   I’ve been trying to find out how far back Olympic Host Contracts have been actually signed, and what their evolution has been to what they are today:

It’s been difficult to confirm if Host Contracts were in existence back then and were signed with Denver for the 1976 Winter Games, but I am assuming a contract was signed (?).

It’s likely then the 1976 experience led to much greater scrutiny of following prospective Games candidates before a Games is even put up to a vote.

The 1976 experience is also likely to have triggered an overhaul and evolution of the Host City Contract to the much tighter and more detailed version that we have today:

  As at 15 August, 2021 - IOC Host Contract

This I think is the first of the New Norm Host contract templates that Brisbane 2032 would have signed and the coming 2030 host as well when that happens.

 

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