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Will IOC set all records to zero?


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I was listening to radio this morning, and a Greek polititian said that IOC thinks to set all world - olympic and so on records to zero, and start counting them again, because IOC thinks that many records are achieved because of doping.

Any comments?

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That's a controversial issue. I say that is because there are other factors that could play a role for the records (world, Olympic, etc.) to be what they are now. Drug use is just one of what could be many factors involved here.
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Let's face it, setting then records back to zero will never work anyway, because everyone will still know what the current records are anyway, and will always compare new records to the old ones even if they are decalred "no longer official".

Basically, I could see the sportscasts going like:

"Well, Sholokov has done well and now holds the current official world record by a wide margin. It's still way behind the 20th century record, though, set by East German Sepp Schmidt back in 199X at ....."

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Let's face it, setting then records back to zero will never work anyway, because everyone will still know what the current records are anyway, and will always compare new records to the old ones even if they are decalred "no longer official".

Basically, I could see the sportscasts going like:

"Well, Sholokov has done well and now holds the current official world record by a wide margin. It's still way behind the 20th century record, though, set by East German Sepp Schmidt back in 199X at ....."

Exactly...how can one not but compare old records with new 'zero-fixed' ones.

And considering it is not the IOC's place to determine records, but the individual sporting federations, I think this may be either a case of wishful thinking or even deflection of current problems coming from the aforemented Greek pollie (Pyrros, what was the context of the interview and was there any reference to Kenderis?)

And let's not forget...when there has been documented and proven examples of drug cheating from the 60s, 70s and 80s (e.g. Marita Koch, Kornelia Ender) there has been no restitution made by the IOC to those athletes cheated of medals...the IOC is like a pachyderm stuck in the mud when it comes to these issues...it can barely wallow out.

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Records have beeen reset to zero or to  that of a previous time in several sports. Weightlifting did it by resetting the weight classes. The cycling hour was set back to the Eddie Merckx record to eliminate high tech equipment. Shooting, I have heard, modifies its rules when perfect scores start to appear. Regardless, it should be up to the ISFs not the IOC to make the changes.

As an aside, here in the US, there are those who would like to roll back the season home run record to eliminate steroid enhanced preformances.

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Let's face it, setting then records back to zero will never work anyway, because everyone will still know what the current records are anyway, and will always compare new records to the old ones even if they are decalred "no longer official".

Basically, I could see the sportscasts going like:

"Well, Sholokov has done well and now holds the current official world record by a wide margin. It's still way behind the 20th century record, though, set by East German Sepp Schmidt back in 199X at ....."

Exactly...how can one not but compare old records with new 'zero-fixed' ones.

And considering it is not the IOC's place to determine records, but the individual sporting federations, I think this may be either a case of wishful thinking or even deflection of current problems coming from the aforemented Greek pollie (Pyrros, what was the context of the interview and was there any reference to Kenderis?)

And let's not forget...when there has been documented and proven examples of drug cheating from the 60s, 70s and 80s (e.g. Marita Koch, Kornelia Ender) there has been no restitution made by the IOC to those athletes cheated of medals...the IOC is like a pachyderm stuck in the mud when it comes to these issues...it can barely wallow out.

I agree with you both - but I want to add that the drivel about drug use in sports is a pseudo discussion...

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Let's face it, setting then records back to zero will never work anyway, because everyone will still know what the current records are anyway, and will always compare new records to the old ones even if they are decalred "no longer official".

Basically, I could see the sportscasts going like:

"Well, Sholokov has done well and now holds the current official world record by a wide margin. It's still way behind the 20th century record, though, set by East German Sepp Schmidt back in 199X at ....."

Exactly...how can one not but compare old records with new 'zero-fixed' ones.

And considering it is not the IOC's place to determine records, but the individual sporting federations, I think this may be either a case of wishful thinking or even deflection of current problems coming from the aforemented Greek pollie (Pyrros, what was the context of the interview and was there any reference to Kenderis?)

And let's not forget...when there has been documented and proven examples of drug cheating from the 60s, 70s and 80s (e.g. Marita Koch, Kornelia Ender) there has been no restitution made by the IOC to those athletes cheated of medals...the IOC is like a pachyderm stuck in the mud when it comes to these issues...it can barely wallow out.

I agree with you both - but I want to add that the drivel about drug use in sports is a pseudo discussion...

What aspects of the 'pseudo-discussion' on drugs in sport is drivel CAF? Are you talking about the somewhat hypocritical appraoch the IOC has taken in the past, individual NOC's covering up drug use or what? I'm sure you don't mean that the issue of drugs in sport in toto isn't 'drivel'...

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What aspects of the 'pseudo-discussion' on drugs in sport is drivel CAF? Are you talking about the somewhat hypocritical appraoch the IOC has taken in the past, individual NOC's covering up drug use or what? I'm sure you don't mean that the issue of drugs in sport in toto isn't 'drivel'...

O.K. - that becomes complicated to explain:

In my point of view is drug use a "pseudo" discussion, because everybody condemns drug use, but on the same time everybody is basking in the success of "their" athletes - therewith the athletes are under pressure to succeed...

They are addicted to success.

Therefore they want to have the "best" starting position in the competition - they do everything...

I believe that the majority of athletes have used drugs during the working-out phase - and I believe that the drug use is one one side comdemned on the other side condone.

For example:

- how often are the athletes unheralded controled during the year in your country?

- how are the athletes "punished" after a positive test?

- is the medal table important for you and your country?

- are you really sure that the athletes of your country don´t use drugs?

- don´t believe that communist countries uses doping only

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I think it should only be the former GDR records.  Anyway, they aren't around anymore to quibble.  

And all you have to is bring out the broken East German women swimmers and trackers of 1976 to show who cheated.  Like where's Kornelia Enders, etc.?

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I was listening to radio this morning, and a Greek polititian said that IOC thinks to set all world - olympic and so on records to zero, and start counting them again, because IOC thinks that many records are achieved because of doping.

Any comments?

:shocked:  :Oo:  :sleepy:

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And all you have to is bring out the broken East German women swimmers and trackers of 1976 to show who cheated.  Like where's Kornelia Enders, etc.?

Sitting at home in a rocking chair rubbing the golds that should have gone to Shirley Babashoff.

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And all you have to is bring out the broken East German women swimmers and trackers of 1976 to show who cheated.  Like where's Kornelia Enders, etc.?

Sitting at home in a rocking chair rubbing the golds that should have gone to Shirley Babashoff.

But at least Shirley Babashoff doesn't have the fallen hair or diseased livers or ovaries that had to be taken out.  I'd rather have a silver and my own hair than the gold with the malfunctioning liver and destroyed ovaries.

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And all you have to is bring out the broken East German women swimmers and trackers of 1976 to show who cheated.  Like where's Kornelia Enders, etc.?

Sitting at home in a rocking chair rubbing the golds that should have gone to Shirley Babashoff.

The name of Kornelia Ender is Kornelia Ender-Grummt today - she lives in Rhineland-Palatinate and works as physical therapist - by the way are the US-sport-associations testing their athletes several times during the years without announcement?

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... yes - the GDR had a public doping system - it is supposed that 30 athletes died every year (camouflaged as accidents in the army, police, school, etc. etc.) - but I "warn" everybody to believe that just communist countries use drugs - we should keep in mind:

IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE

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... yes - the GDR had a public doping system - it is supposed that 30 athletes died every year (camouflaged as accidents in the army, police, school, etc. etc.) - but I "warn" everybody to believe that just communist countries use drugs - we should keep in mind:

IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE

I don't think that at all CAF.  If you recall, I said a long time ago that if it is ever discovered that Marion Jones or anyone else for that matter was drugged during Sydney or any other games that she/they should be stripped of the medals.

For those of us who sat and watched the Montreal swimming events and could tell just by looking at the female athletes that they were on steroids, Shirley Babashoff being denied her gold medals is a bitter lasting memory of those games.

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I don't think that at all CAF.  If you recall, I said a long time ago that if it is ever discovered that Marion Jones or anyone else for that matter was drugged during Sydney or any other games that she/they should be stripped of the medals.

LA84 - do I understand right that you are making a difference between doping during the Games and during the working-out phase?

Do you really mean that doping is allowed during the working-out phase but not during the games? How often are the US-athletes tested unannounced during the year? Are positive tests made public? What happens with the positive-tested athletes?

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The whole "doping discussion" is a farce - as long as the countries blame other countries to use drugs it will never work.

The first step is to build up a testing system in the own country, which is without gap.

That means that all athletes, who take part in national/international competitions, have to be unannounced tested several times during the year. This testing must be carried out by a neutral organisation. All positive tests has to be published - the athletes have to be excluded from all national and international competition for the next 5-6 years.

By the way it isn´t good to differ between olympic sports and non-olympic sports - therefore all professional sports have to be included.

This kind of control-systems will never happen, because of:

- marketing-aspects

- no all countries will establish such control systems

- national interests

- legal problems

In Germany we have the phrase:

MAN SOLL SICH ERST AN DIE EIGENE NASE FASSEN (literally: You should touch the own nose first - which means before you blame somebody else you should start with your own business)

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I don't think that at all CAF.  If you recall, I said a long time ago that if it is ever discovered that Marion Jones or anyone else for that matter was drugged during Sydney or any other games that she/they should be stripped of the medals.

LA84 - do I understand right that you are making a difference between doping during the Games and during the working-out phase?

Do you really mean that doping is allowed during the working-out phase but not during the games? How often are the US-athletes tested unannounced during the year? Are positive tests made public? What happens with the positive-tested athletes?

NCAA  Drug Testing Procedures and Results

U.S. Anti-Doping Procedures

So yes CAF - we are checking out of competition. And yes, prior to Athens we were getting nightly news reports and daily newspaper reports of all the athletes who were weeded out as well as reports of any athletes who have tested positive in the past.

And BTW in Athens, we had one athlete who was found to have marijuana in his system prior to the Olympics and we pulled him out of the competition even though by governing body rules, he would have been eligible to compete in Athens.

Is it fool-proof.  Of course not.  It isn't anywhere.  But unless you know of a country that follows around the athletes with a pee cup all the time it never will be.

As for past Olympians who are later found to have been drugged during the games I stand by what I said.

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LA84,

first of all I want to admit that I knew that the USA is testing during the year, but my intention was to challenge that testing - like you have said yourself there is not fool-proof system. (just look in the procedures or in the statistic about the number of tests on the website of the USADA (e.g. in 2004 were 7630 tests - how many athletes have the USA?) or on the sanctions in 2004 (2 years/4 years - many can compete in Beijing again). LOL - the penalty at NCAA is 365 days...)

Isn´t that a little bit halfhearted?

I can understand when you are annoyed about my posts, in which I establish a relationship between the USA and the GDR, but you should understand that I´m getting annoyed when you are posting:

Sitting at home in a rocking chair rubbing the golds that should have gone to Shirley Babashoff.
- you are going too far with this - you are characterising a person in a very very bad way - you don´t know Kornelia Ender and therefore you don´t know how she feels...

Therewith I started to challenge the drug-testing of the USA and pointed out some incidents - but I have gone too far, too (e.g. the establishing of a relationship between the USA and the GDR - the USA didn´t have a public drug-system).

As for past Olympians who are later found to have been drugged during the games I stand by what I said.

... is there a proof that Kornelia Ender was drugged during Montreal? I just heard that she said that she was drugged during the working-out phase.

I want to emphasise that I´m the opinion that the fight against doping is everywhere very halfhearted - I took the USA as an example only

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