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Future Olympic Hosts


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1 hour ago, FYI said:

And for the all the talk this past week on how the Olympic Games can or has "transform/ed" a city, & how the Games don't need to be staged behind or near famous landmarks in order for them to be successful, cause the main focus will be on the sports anyway, then I can actually see that being more the case with Ahmedabad the more I think about it. I'm sure Seoul & even Barcelona raised many eyebrows at the time of their elections. And whether anyone likes it or not, that's where Bach & Co. seem to be focusing their attention lately.

At the end of the day, Ahmedabad would be more about India (since it would be their first Games) than it would be about the city itself. Just like how when Durban was part of the discussion in the past, especially right when they were awarded the 2022 CWG's (& not Cape Town or Jo'burg), how it would've been more about (South) Africa than it would've been just about the city itself. It's the out-of-the-box thinking, & this could actually start to get intriguing in that sense.

Durban is also warm enough to host in the July-August window - Cape Town and J'burg are too cold. 

I really think in losing the 2022 Commonwealth Games, Durban also potentially lost the 2032 Olympics. The stars may have aligned, and the power of Africa could have been enough for someone like Kirsty Coventry to wrestle 2032 from Coates.

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24 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Crazy that instead of QSAC we could have spent 2032 celebrating Africa's first Olympics at this stadium:

 

Nice idea, but I think pretty unrealistic. Even if Durban hadn’t pulled out of the commies, 2022 would have been challenging considering how hard South Africa was hit by covid at the time. The level of investment required would be magnitudes greater for the Olympics - investment I’m not sure South Africa would be willing, or would be wise, to make.

I’ve always liked the idea, but I think there’s a large degree of wishful thinking in it.  

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2 hours ago, sebastien1214 said:

No one knows about CWGs outside of Commonwealth countries. So the cities that organized the CWGs...

How come I know about them -- and i don't belong to a CWG country?  I also know about the Francophone and Lusophony Games.  As I said, NOT my problem if the rest are IGNORANT of these events and their host cities!  NOT MY PROBLEM!!  B)

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4 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

How come I know about them -- and i don't belong to a CWG country?  I also know about the Francophone and Lusophony Games.  As I said, NOT my problem if the rest are IGNORANT of these events and their host cities!  NOT MY PROBLEM!!  B)

The average person certainly doesn't. And why should they if they aren't a former britsh colony?

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Apart from anything else Ahmedabad has four times the population of Brisbane. I think we need to be a bit careful of our own biases here. I personally don't know anywhere near enough about the city to know if it's Olympic ready or close to being Olympic ready.

But I'm definitely open to leftfield options if they're being selected for the right reasons.

That said, I am slightly worried that the new norm, whilst it does seem to be allowing less well-known, smaller cities to host, is pushing us in a direction of pet projects and increased politicisation. The Coates Games followed by the Modi Games anyone?

Edited by Rob2012
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45 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

Apart from anything else Ahmedabad has four times the population of Brisbane. I think we need to be a bit careful of our own biases here. I personally don't know anywhere near enough about the city to know if it's Olympic ready or close to being Olympic ready.

Like so much happening under the “New Norm” we’re operating in the dark with guesswork and supposition. We know India has officially stated they’re working towards the Games, so I think it’s safe to surmise they are in dialogue. Beyond that, we’ve actually NOT had any official word which city they’re bidding with. However, what coverage I do read seems to be all about investments in Ahmedabad sports facilities, usually mentioning the Olympics. I’ve not read of any major projects elsewhere Ike Delhi or Mumbai. It seems beyond likely to me, then, that Ahmedabad is the target.

45 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

That said, I am slightly worried that the new norm, whilst it does seem to be allowing less well-known, smaller cities to host, is pushing us in a direction of pet projects and increased politicisation

Which has always the potential flaw of the New Norm - it’s concentrated the decision making power.

I actually live watched FIFA’s vote on the 2027 Women’s World Cup last week, and it struck me how the IOC and FIFA have basically swapped procedures. FIFA’s was so much like the old IOC votes - 200+ voters, all pushing their buttons to vote after presentations by the bidders, and then tabulated and a card printed out for Infantino to unseal and read - all streamed live*. In the meantime the IOC has moved to Executive Board recommendations, done in secret and then announced via press conference after the fact, which are then presented to the membership merely to ratify.

* I don’t know what conclusions to draw about FIFA from that. I assume the 2030 decision wasn’t so transparent. And it’s not like the Saudi’s have to worry about a vote for 2034. 

Edited by Sir Rols
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2 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I actually live watched FIFA’s vote on the 2027 Women’s World Cup last week, and it struck me how the IOC and FIFA have basically swapped procedures. FIFA’s was so much like the old IOC votes - 200+ voters, all pushing their buttons to vote after presentations by the bidders, and then tabulated and a card printed out for Infantino to unseal and read - all streamed live. In the meantime the IOC has moved to Executive Board recommendations, done in secret and then announced via press conference after the fact, which are then presented to the membership merely to ratify.

Yet, in a weird way, the old IOC way was more democratic than the "one country, one vote" system FIFA now has.

Don't want to go too far off topic, but the issue with 'democratisation' of FIFA is that you have the powerful continental federations who control huge voting blocs. This was the last change Blatter made as President and I'm sure he made it with a sly smile knowing the mess it would create.

The corruption hasn't gone away (even if it's not as widespread as it was). And the secrecy of old is creeping back at an alarming rate (lots of stories recently about term limits rules being rolled back and FIFA shutting out journalists etc)

 

 

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On 5/20/2024 at 5:37 AM, Australian Kiwi said:

The stars may have aligned, and the power of Africa could have been enough for someone like Kirsty Coventry to wrestle 2032 from Coates.

Ohh, that would've been a worthy Olympic event in itself! :D

8 hours ago, Rob2012 said:

Apart from anything else Ahmedabad has four times the population of Brisbane. I think we need to be a bit careful of our own biases here. I personally don't know anywhere near enough about the city to know if it's Olympic ready or close to being Olympic ready.

But I'm definitely open to leftfield options if they're being selected for the right reasons.

Where did you come up with that figure (cause that would mean about 12 million)?

When I first looked at that about a year ago, I saw that Ahmedabad was 4.5 million, & thinking then - okay, it's at least larger than Brisbane. But now when I checked again, after you posted this, it turns out that figure was from about 2001. Now the number looks to be at 6.5 million, with an urban pop. of nearly nine million. So well ABOVE Brisbane, even after you include the Gold & Sunshine Coasts. But even then, that's three times the size.

And I have to agree, that I think certain biases come in when talking about Ahmedabad (I must admit, that I even had mine as well before). Some here are totally okay with Brisbane, but are then just flabbergasted with Ahmedabad, saying that it HAS to be either Delhi or Mumbai. Which I can get that (especially if we're talking India's first Olympics), but when we're still talking about an Indian city that's still larger than many major U.S. & European cities, & even larger than Sydney or Melbourne, then what's the real issue here besides bias & image? 

As has also been noted against Delhi & Mumbai before of being too overcrowded (an issue that also seems to plague Istanbul), Ahmedabad at least appears to have the space to build all the facilities, & looks like they'd be easily absorbed in such a large city post-Games, especially when factoring in the rest of India will also come to use/train at those facilities.

8 hours ago, Rob2012 said:

That said, I am slightly worried that the new norm, whilst it does seem to be allowing less well-known, smaller cities to host, is pushing us in a direction of pet projects and increased politicisation. The Coates Games followed by the Modi Games anyone? 

Yes, that seems to be a given with the 'new-norm' these days. The ole "I'll scratch your back, if you scratch mine". What I'd also be curious to know, though, is how is Bach going to shake off the Qatari's yet again. Since they weren't too happy at all how 2032 went down, & seem determined not to have the carpet be swiped underneath their feet once again.

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10 hours ago, Rob2012 said:

Yet, in a weird way, the old IOC way was more democratic than the "one country, one vote" system FIFA now has.

I’m under no illusion FIFA have found democracy. It was just a surprise to see an old-style vote and presentations  going on. I’m sure Gianni would have stitched up some “agreement” if there was any chance of the vote not going how he wanted. Plus it was the women’s tournament, which he likely still doesn’t care about as much as the men’s marquee.

10 hours ago, Rob2012 said:

And the secrecy of old is creeping back at an alarming rate (lots of stories recently about term limits rules being rolled back and FIFA shutting out journalists etc)

The IOC’s moving that way too. Not publishing transcripts of meetings any more, highly controlled press conferences, marketing more than communications, massaging the books at all costs to get various spendings out of the “Olympic” column. The other Rob (GBMod) has noted it, and The Inquisitor’s described it in detail.

I remember saying the IOC needed to improve their messaging back in the days when NOlympics was dominating the bidding discourse. Careful what you wish for! I was thinking more frankness and transparency, not more secrecy, spin and control.

Edited by Sir Rols
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On 5/22/2024 at 7:04 AM, Sir Rols said:

 

I remember saying the IOC needed to improve their messaging back in the days when NOlympics was dominating the bidding discourse. Careful what you wish for! I was thinking more frankness and transparency, not more secrecy, spin and control.

I think its very telling that the people with the power in Lausanne are not capable of taking any other avenue, because that would involve them handing over some kind of power. 

Look at who Bach has praised in the face of human rights abuses - Putin as a starting point (well prior to 2022 there were serious matters).

WIth an organisation's ranks stacked with aristocratic and nepotism they were never capable of frankness and transparency - it would have never occurred to them as an option. 

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24 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

WIth an organisation's ranks stacked with aristocratic and nepotism

The funny thing is, some of those older, particularly European, royals - the likes of Princess Anne and Prince Albert of Monaco, were among the most independent and impartial of the IOC members. They were often the nucleus of opposition to some of Samaranch’s proposals for example. 

Anne was sometimes quite forthright in her comments on Olympic matters. Albert’s questions at the voting presentations were something to look forward to. He made som of the more penetrative enquires.

Edited by Sir Rols
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One main problem of Ahmedabad's candidacy is that it is NOT a tourist destination nor has the potential to become one.  What is so special about the city other than being Modi's hometown?  The world societies of travel agents and tourism aren't exactly going to be lining up tours and excursions to a D-tier city of India.  Those royal "live" elephants of India are now going to be calcified as their albino pachyderms post-2036!!  I wonder if the Indians and the IOC will ever learn.  

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I'm sure many said the same thing about Seoul, Barcelona & Atlanta back then, too. And it's not like Brisbane is some sort of tourist hot spot, either. For all the talk around here of Olympic "transformation" that the Games can bring to a city, I'm starting to see that can actually be the case with Ahmedabad as well. Plus, it actually sounds more Indian than Delhi or Mumbai. 

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Oh, can't forget Germany's (your favorite here) top tourist destination of the Rhine Ruhr. I've always loved all their glossy travel brochures of the industrial/commercial parts of town.

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4 hours ago, FYI said:

Oh, can't forget Germany's (your favorite here) top tourist destination of the Rhine Ruhr. I've always loved all their glossy travel brochures of the industrial/commercial parts of town.

Tsk! I just visited R-R (apart from Cologne) for the first time last autumn. Surely not the most charming/picturesque places, but the vintage industrialism concept is certainly attractive in the tourist spots they actually do have!

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17 hours ago, FYI said:

I'm sure many said the same thing about Seoul, Barcelona & Atlanta back then, too. And it's not like Brisbane is some sort of tourist hot spot, either.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY DIFFERENT.  Seoul is the Korean Peninsula's historic capital.  It is the major metropolis of the 2nd (or 3rd Asian tiger).  Barcelona has always been Spain's #2 city and the capital of its own autonomous region.  Atlanta is the most progressive city in the US South, w/ a colorful history dating back to the Civil War.  Brisbane is Oz's #3 city and is an up-and-coming metropolis there.  What is Ahmedabad?  Nothing; nada.  Just because it has open land IMHO doesn't justify it landing something as important as an Olympic Games.  NAH.  You cannot make the same comparison -- esp, not from a travel agent's point of view.  You cannot even dock damned cruise ships in this city.  At least Durban has that possibility.  Pfffffffffffft on AHmedabad.  Very bad!! :lol:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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1 hour ago, baron-pierreIV said:

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY DIFFERENT.  Seoul is the Korean Peninsula's historic capital.  It is the major metropolis of the 2nd (or 3rd Asian tiger).  Barcelona has always been Spain's #2 city and the capital of its own autonomous region.  Atlanta is the most progressive city in the US South, w/ a colorful history dating back to the Civil War.  Brisbane is Oz's #3 city and is an up-and-coming metropolis there.  What is Ahmedabad?  Nothing; nada.  Just because it has open land IMHO doesn't justify it landing something as important as an Olympic Games.  NAH.  You cannot make the same comparison -- esp, not from a travel agent's point of view.  You cannot even dock damned cruise ships in this city.  At least Durban has that possibility.  Pfffffffffffft on AHmedabad.  Very bad!! :lol:

For once I'm going to defend Ahmedabad a little (the city, not the candidacy), but when I see certain messages it almost seems like it would be the worst city in the world for a tourist.

Yes, it's obvious that when we think of "city in India", it's not Ahmedabad that comes first, it's not the most touristy city there is. But in the meantime, tourism is developing, cities which are very touristy today were not necessarily so 20-30 years ago. 

And in this case, Ahmedabad is still the historic capital of Gujarat which was a very important place in trade routes, which experienced great prosperity under the Mughal empire, and today you obviously have “remnants”, traces of this past. It is also not a city built only very recently without any real history or heritage. 

And today, Ahmedabad and its metropolitan area have around 8 million inhabitants. It's not a small village, and above all it's a city that is developing a lot.

So to make the comparison:

- Yes, Seoul is the historic capital of the Korean peninsula. A rich history, a formidable heritage. But let's not get into unhealthy competitions of "which country has the best heritage", Ahmedabad also has its history, its past, its heritage. It's just different. 
- Brisbane is a booming metropolis, Ahmedabad is too. (and in terms of population Ahmedabad easily wins)
- Yes, Atlanta is a progressive city, but I don't really see how being "progressive" helps much for tourism (apart from very specific groups like the LGBT who, for obvious reasons, will have much less trouble going to holidays in London than in Doha).

So I don't see how Ahmedabad would be less good than these cities when we detach ourselves from our clichés about India. And moreover, the main criticism made of Istanbul (since we are in 2036), is that the city is too crowded, unbreathable. But isn't it the same for Delhi and Mumbai? 

(if we come back to the subject of Ahmedabad's candidacy, it's not necessarily the one that excites me the most, for other reasons. If the final match would be played between Ahmedabad, Doha and Saudi Arabia, I would take obviously Ahmedabad, that said if I had to choose myself, I would lean more towards Istanbul).

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15 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

- Yes, Atlanta is a progressive city, but I don't really see how being "progressive" helps much for tourism (apart from very specific groups like the LGBT who, for obvious reasons, will have much less trouble going to holidays in London than in Doha).

Atlanta is a big tourist magnet for the African-American populace -- not to mention it has draws of very American institutions like Coca-Cola and Georgia Tech, Emory University -- and of course, the seat of many historic black colleges.  It has its own critical and cultural weight.  It has many consulates and the regional headquarters for many of the US' large corporations.  So, Atlanta did NOT win 1996 alone for having almost all the facilities for 1996 ready.  And being the home city of Martin Luther King, Jr., it has more important civil rights than Ahmedabad.  Ahmedabad doesn't even have a "fake" Gandhi relic like a "Loincloth of Gandhi" relic to call its own.  Did Guajarat even have a famous or notorious maharajah?  NADA!! 

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15 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Atlanta is a big tourist magnet for the African-American populace -- not to mention it has draws of very American institutions like Coca-Cola and Georgia Tech, Emory University -- and of course, the seat of many historic black colleges.  It has its own critical and cultural weight.  It has many consulates and the regional headquarters for many of the US' large corporations.  So, Atlanta did NOT win 1996 alone for having almost all the facilities for 1996 ready.  And being the home city of Martin Luther King, Jr., it has more important civil rights than Ahmedabad.  Ahmedabad doesn't even have a "fake" Gandhi relic like a "Loincloth of Gandhi" relic to call its own.  Did Guajarat even have a famous or notorious maharajah?  NADA!! 

No doubt that Atlanta is a big tourist destination for Americans, but is this also the case for foreigners? From what I see, in 2019, the state of Georgia welcomed 112 million tourists*, but only 1.4 million international tourists. If I compare with an American city whose urban area has a similar population, Detroit in 2016 welcomed 2.6 million**. So for international tourism, the question of whether the city is progressive or not does not seem to matter much to me. (and when we talk about the effect of the Olympics on the host cities in terms of tourism, we are obviously targeting international tourists).

For the rest :

- I have no idea of the hotel capacities of Ahmedabad but yes it is an important point. It was a big problem in Qatar for the FIFA World Cup 2022 and it led to having air connections with Saudi Arabia just so that tourists could use their hotels: this is an aberration 
- Regarding civil rights, it is obvious that in 2024 it is better to be an African-American in Atlanta than a Muslim in Ahmedabad. Modi's discriminatory policy towards Muslims, which in many respects comes close to modern fascism, is actually the main reason why I do not entirely want to have India organize the Olympics in 2036 (but the problem is that the other candidate countries are just as catastrophic...).

*https://www.globalatlanta.com/international-visitors-have-outsized-influence-on-georgias-record-tourism-year/

**https://www.wxyz.com/news/detroits-booming-tourism-industry-is-attracting-millions-from-around-the-world

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2 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

esp, not from a travel agent's point of view.  

Right, cause I'd forgotten that travel agents were part of the BNC's executive board! :lol:

2 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

You cannot even dock damned cruise ships in this city.  At least Durban has that possibility. 

Neither could you in Atlanta. But you're so in love there.

2 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Pfffffffffffft on AHmedabad.  Very bad!! :lol:

So says the one that was so fixated on "very bad" Reno for so long! :P

51 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Ahmedabad doesn't even have a "fake" Gandhi relic like a "Loincloth of Gandhi" relic to call its own.  Did Guajarat even have a famous or notorious maharajah?  NADA!! 

What is it with this "STUPID stance" of yours of doubling-down with your silly baron-esque way of viewing things? You should know better.

"Like it or lump it" :D, Ahmedabad is where all the sporting investment in India is happening right now. And they're doing it with the goal objective of landing an Olympic Games. It's also where Bach & Co. is focusing a lot of his attention at lately (along with Qatar). He's not doing that on the Korean Peninsula nor even in Germany (his home country), go figure.

Ahmedabad is also WAY larger than Brisbane (regardless if it's OZ's "3rd city", like that really matters in the grand scheme of things in this case anyway). It's not like we're talking about Dili in East Timor here. Again, for all the talk about Olympic host city "transformation", this has that opportunity here. And as much as Seoul & South Korea is a mecca of Asian culture today, it WASN'T really like that pre-Olympics.

And as been noted, I'd also much rather Ahmedabad than Doh-a or gasp Saudi Arabia. Not even Indonesia or Egypt (with their so-called "new capitals"). Plus, as also has been mentioned by others, you don't need famous international landmarks to have a successful Olympic Games anyway. You should know that already, sincec Atlanta doesn't have any, & neither does Brisbane.

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If I were taking the holiday I took to India in 2019 today--and even if you offered me an extra $500 incentive, I would not care to add Ahmedabad to my itinerary.  Two places I would've wanted to add to my 2019 trip were Udiapur and Pondicherry (aside from the Golden Triangle of Delhi-Agra and Jaipur) -- but logistics, etc., etc., did not line up.  

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1 minute ago, FYI said:

Neither could you in Atlanta. But you're so in love there.

No; not really. Wow; so confrontational -- over a tier-G Indian city.  :rolleyes:

Just being analytical.  And Atlanta did NOT need a crush of hotel rooms 28 years ago.  That's the point of that remark.  Per the calculations, they had enough existing hotel rooms to handle the event PLUS there was Savannah and Charleston were there--if the need for docks were needed.  DUH!! 


I mean, you and sebastien go honeymoon in AHmedabad.  No one's stopping you -- least of all me.  ;)

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