Calgary 2026 and Salt Lake 2030?

[FYI]

1 hour ago, Olympianfan said:

Because Sochi Russia got everything in place for the games and Almaty Kazakhstan did not bid cause they thought two games in Asia in a row and there was no possibility that they could get it in 2026, Vladimir Putin and the President of Kazakhstan would easy jump in to be the Plan B if they get asked to be, Almaty would more likely get the games over Sochi cause of PR reasons.

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, Olympianfan said:

Because Sochi Russia got everything in place for the games and Almaty Kazakhstan did not bid cause they thought two games in Asia in a row and there was no possibility that they could get it in 2026, Vladimir Putin and the President of Kazakhstan would easy jump in to be the Plan B if they get asked to be, Almaty would more likely get the games over Sochi cause of PR reasons.

Mmmm.. tacos.

Do you understand what a complex business endeavor bidding for and hosting an Olympics is?  Clearly you don't.  The IOC can't just call up the president of Kazakhstan and say "we want you to host the Olympics" and have them reply "sure, we're in!"  For as much as the IOC clearly does need a plan B, it's not so easy as to snap their fingers and expect that a city like Almaty can throw together a proposal for them.  Even in Sochi where facilities are built, it's much more complicated than that.

[Quaker2001]

1 hour ago, FYI said:

Then take a Xanax, why don’t you, since you’re so obviously anxious. And for the umpteenth time, I’ve never said that a double was a locked-in given. But as usual, thanks for always interpreting what I’ve said into what I haven’t said. However, to use your logic though here, why don’t we just wait for how things will “play out” before making any final calls. Sound familiar. 

As usual, thanks for mis-interpreting what I said into what you think you heard.  I know you're not saying "that a double was a locked-in given."  I have never thought that.  Pretty sure you know I'm not saying that.  But you keep pushing the "possibility" (key word there) about how it could happen (another key word there) so I'm curious where the double fetish (or for you, maybe we'll call it the double fyietish) is now?  Because every time you're entertaining this notion that a double is the solution and throw out a possibility (once again, key word), there's not much backing there to think things would actually "play out" that way.  And as all this does play out, the idea of a double seems less and less likely.  

[Olympianfan]

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1070973/stockholms-bid-for-2026-winter-olympics-in-serious-doubt-after-city-council-reshuffle

Looks like it's game over for Stockholm Sweden 2026 Winter Games now the Stockholm city government have now been formed so it's now just Calgary Canada vs Milan Italy in the race now. 

[Quaker2001]

Just now, Olympianfan said:

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1070973/stockholms-bid-for-2026-winter-olympics-in-serious-doubt-after-city-council-reshuffle

Looks like it's game over for Stockholm Sweden 2026 Winter Games now the Stockholm city government have now been formed so it's now just Calgary Canada vs Milan Italy in the race now. 

We thought that about the Italy bid a couple of times and they're still breathing.  Stockholm's bid is on life support now, but they're not dead and buried just yet.

[Quaker2001]

4 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Prediction: All 3 bids are going to die. 

Very possible.  Any prediction on what happens then?

[FYI]

7 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

As usual, thanks for mis-interpreting what I said into what you think you heard.  

Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’ve been saying about you all along.

7 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

But you keep pushing the "possibility" (key word there) about how it could happen (another key word there) so I'm curious where the double fetish (or for you, maybe we'll call it the double fyietish) is now?  

I’m not “pushing” anything as much as you are shoving your quaker know-it-all “fetish” around. 

So I’m not going to continue going around in circles with you, BCUZ  as the definition of insanity goes: “doing the same thing over & over again & expecting different results”.

 

 

[Nacre]

2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Very possible.  Any prediction on what happens then?

The IOC threatens to leave Switzerland if they don't host.

[thatsnotmypuppy]

Considering the international drubbing Sochi got I'd expect PyeongChang would get asked before the Russians.

[Olympianfan]

3 hours ago, thatsnotmypuppy said:

Considering the international drubbing Sochi got I'd expect PyeongChang would get asked before the Russians.

They sure did have the best victory ceremony music I seen from the Olympic Games maybe PyeongChang South Korea 2026 would be the best.

[baron-pierreIV]

4 hours ago, thatsnotmypuppy said:

Considering the international drubbing Sochi got I'd expect PyeongChang would get asked before the Russians.

You know-who's going to ask for Long-track speedskating.  Give him Curling or the Biathlon, too. 

[Maximf83]

8 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Very possible.  Any prediction on what happens then?

IOC goes to Salt Lake City, begging and pleading, giving another good deal to LA to allow it and USA taking over the world with winter olympics, world cup and summer olympics

[FYI]

Instead of PyeongChang, why not just ask the Chinese to host back-to-back Winter Games.  I’m sure that they’d go for it. Make extra use of that expensive high speed rail that they’re building, too. 

[FYI]

Or should I say “double” Chinese Games for my favorite “other poster” on here. 

[Olympianfan]

5 hours ago, RuFF said:

I really don’t know what would happen then.

2026 in the US has huge roadblocks. If 2026 happened in the US the concessions to LA2028 would need to be increased (substantially) but I really don’t see the IOC handing LA2028 the kind of monetary concessions that would offset the increased risk and lost revenue to LA2028, Los Angeles and California, associated with allowing another US city to host 2026. Factor in United 2026 and the plot gets even murkier. 

But creatively (read: not monetary) there is a potential offset in an economic windfall of a Tahoe 2026 games. The key to 2026 in the US is lining up LA2028, Los Angeles, and California and I don’t see politicians or LA2028 lining up for increased risk to the benefit of the IOC, SLC or Utah. SLC2026, without major monetary contributions to the 2028 guarantors risk and lost revenues, is dead on arrival. Tahoe could serve as an offset to that contribution (read: creative money), but the most likely scenario is no 2026 games on US soil as all roadblocks are removed for 2030. The process to making 2026 happen in the US is laced with barbed wire that the IOC would likely not touch it unless it found itself in absolutele dire circumstances. And if the IOC did touch it or was left with no choice, it would be a humbling experience. 

But let’s be real. Any viable city for 2026 is in a position to negotiate concessions with the IOC. The same applies for any viable city for 2030. I predict the IOC will increase its contribution for 2026 in an effort to retain at least 1 bid. Specifically, Calgary has lined up all levels of government. Even though the bid is uninspiring and the bid faces a plascebite, it’s non binding and all levels of government seem to be lining up. The funding gap to close Calgary is likely far less than the concessions gap the IOC would have to make to bring the games to the US in 2026. 

So I think that’s my prediction. 2026 - Calgary. 

We are talking about if Calgary votes NO and Sweden and Italy pulls out on who will be hosting the 2026 Winter Games.

[Quaker2001]

13 hours ago, RuFF said:

I really don’t know what would happen then.

2026 in the US has huge roadblocks. If 2026 happened in the US the concessions to LA2028 would need to be increased (substantially) but I really don’t see the IOC handing LA2028 the kind of monetary concessions that would offset the increased risk and lost revenue to LA2028, Los Angeles and California, associated with allowing another US city to host 2026. Factor in United 2026 and the plot gets even murkier. 

But creatively (read: not monetary) there is a potential offset in an economic windfall of a Tahoe 2026 games. The key to 2026 in the US is lining up LA2028, Los Angeles, and California and I don’t see politicians or LA2028 lining up for increased risk to the benefit of the IOC, SLC or Utah. SLC2026, without major monetary contributions to the 2028 guarantors risk and lost revenues, is dead on arrival. Tahoe could serve as an offset to that contribution (read: creative money), but the most likely scenario is no 2026 games on US soil as all roadblocks are removed for 2030. The process to making 2026 happen in the US is laced with barbed wire that the IOC would likely not touch it unless it found itself in absolutele dire circumstances. And if the IOC did touch it or was left with no choice, it would be a humbling experience. 

But let’s be real. Any viable city for 2026 is in a position to negotiate concessions with the IOC. The same applies for any viable city for 2030. I predict the IOC will increase its contribution for 2026 in an effort to retain at least 1 bid. Specifically, Calgary has lined up all levels of government. Even though the bid is uninspiring and the bid faces a plascebite, it’s non binding and all levels of government seem to be lining up. The funding gap to close Calgary is likely far less than the concessions gap the IOC would have to make to bring the games to the US in 2026. 

So I think that’s my prediction. 2026 - Calgary. 

Your original prediction said that all 3 bids were going to die.  So this sounds like a new prediction.

I think you're pretty spot on that what it would take to compensate another bid, particularly Calgary, is less than what it would likely take to bring in Salt Lake (Tahoe IMO is a non-starter on short notice).  So I agree with you on that one.  But you mention the IOC being in absolute dire circumstances and if they were left with no choice.  That's a very real possibility for them.  It would be an extremely humbling experience, especially after how the 2022 vote went down.  Maybe the IOC should be humbled if they very publicly proclaim they don't have a backup plan and wind up needing a backup plan.

[Nacre]

What they really need to do is to simply separate the snow and ice events. There are lots of cities like Minneapolis and Quebec that would like to host the ice events but just don't have the mountains for alpine skiing. Meanwhile there are few places in the world outside of the Alps and Norway that have large cities in mountains suitable for skiing.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Nacre

[FYI]

Once they were to do that, though, it would totally dilute the Olympic experience. And would then make the Games just your average, run-of-the-mill championships.

[FYI]

Not to mention the extra logistics involved in having two separate, distant sites. In the end, most likely doesn’t sound very much worth it, or that much cost effective anyway.

[Nacre]

5 hours ago, FYI said:

Not to mention the extra logistics involved in having two separate, distant sites. In the end, most likely doesn’t sound very much worth it, or that much cost effective anyway.

You mean like having the ice events in Vancouver, Beijing or Gangneung and the snow events in Whistler, Zangjiakou, and Pyeongchang? I volunteered at Vancouver and can assure you that the winter games are already well on the road to having two separate sites anyway. It took me several hours to get from my friends' suburban Vancouver house to Whistler during the games. So why not simply formalize it and let two cities in different areas (but still on the same continent) host together?

Edited October 14, 2018 by Nacre

[Quaker2001]

16 hours ago, Nacre said:

What they really need to do is to simply separate the snow and ice events. There are lots of cities like Minneapolis and Quebec that would like to host the ice events but just don't have the mountains for alpine skiing. Meanwhile there are few places in the world outside of the Alps and Norway that have large cities in mountains suitable for skiing.

Is Minneapolis actually interested in hosting or are you just throwing that out there as a hypothetical?  How separate do we want the ice and snow events to be in order to make that work?  It's one thing to have Vancouver/Whistler or some combo like that where they're at least relatively accessible from each other. And remember, of the 3 remaining bids, Calgary is likely to use venues in Vancouver. Stockholm is having the spline events in Are. And who knows what the Italian bid will look like when all is said and done. So like you said, we're already at the point where bids are struggling to keep everything in the same area. And yes, let's see how those logistical challenges play out as these bids evolve

[yoshi]

I would’ve thought an obvious pair that are far from each other but still the same country (even state) would be the ski areas of Lake Placid & the arenas of NYC. In Europe, you could even do what Krakow nearly did & have ice in one country & snow in a bordering one. Bear in mind the Oslo 2022 bid that the IOC were so determined to keep alive was basically split between Oslo & Lillehammer, & the Beijing hosting is too - so the IOC would be unlikely to be too fussed. (Plus the recent European Championship) Perhaps something to formally try out with a YOG first. 

[FYI]

1 hour ago, Nacre said:

You mean like having the ice events in Vancouver, Beijing or Gangneung and the snow events in Whistler, Zangjiakou, and Pyeongchang? I volunteered at Vancouver and can assure you that the winter games are already well on the road to having two separate sites anyway. It took me several hours to get from my friends' suburban Vancouver house to Whistler during the games. So why not simply formalize it and let two cities in different areas (but still on the same continent) host together?

You used Minneapolis & Quebec as your examples. There aren’t any relatively close mountain ranges to either of those cities for the snow clusters, especially Minneapolis, to make it very efficient. And especially when you’re comparing them to Whistler, Gangneung & Zhangziakou. So those aren’t fair comparisons. 

Also let’s keep in mind that Beijing is building a high-speed rail to connect it to it’s snow sites & that Vancouver had to severely overhaul it’s Sea to Sky highway in order to make travel times to Whistler easier. And what about the spectators & media that really want to attend/cover events in both ice & snow clusters on the same day? 

How can you “simply formalize it” when you’re talking about Minneapolis & let’s say Park City or Whistler? Now you’re talking about inconvenient air travel, instead of a simple train or car ride up to the mountains. Then you’re also talking about extra security in not just one, but two distant areas, airports, etc. And then what about that kind of air travel during inclement winter weather? Yeah, all that doesn’t really sound too Olympic friendly to me, & that’s where you really start to dilute the Olympic expericence & atmosphere.. 

And let’s also note, how Italy was trying to do somewhat what you’re describing, only to have Turin (with all the venues needed) drop from their 2026 bid. So really, I don’t think it’s as simple as you’re trying to portray it.

[Quaker2001]

4 hours ago, yoshi said:

I would’ve thought an obvious pair that are far from each other but still the same country (even state) would be the ski areas of Lake Placid & the arenas of NYC. In Europe, you could even do what Krakow nearly did & have ice in one country & snow in a bordering one. Bear in mind the Oslo 2022 bid that the IOC were so determined to keep alive was basically split between Oslo & Lillehammer, & the Beijing hosting is too - so the IOC would be unlikely to be too fussed. (Plus the recent European Championship) Perhaps something to formally try out with a YOG first. 

Lake Placid is still a tiny village and the scope of the outdoor events since they hosted in 1980 has increased dramatically.  They're not capable of handling that half of an Olympics, let alone to be paired up with New York which is a solid 5 hours away.  To say nothing of NYC probably not being all that interested.  Given all the pro and college teams in the area, it's not like they have much trouble booking events at all their arenas that they don't necessarily need to tell everyone to take a hike for a month.

[Quaker2001]

5 hours ago, Nacre said:

You mean like having the ice events in Vancouver, Beijing or Gangneung and the snow events in Whistler, Zangjiakou, and Pyeongchang? I volunteered at Vancouver and can assure you that the winter games are already well on the road to having two separate sites anyway. It took me several hours to get from my friends' suburban Vancouver house to Whistler during the games. So why not simply formalize it and let two cities in different areas (but still on the same continent) host together?

What's there to formalize?  Again, look at the current bids.  Nothing prevents a city/country from offering something like what you're suggesting.  But if there are going to be logistical challenges, then they're not going to put that bid forward in the first place.  If they do (as each of the current bidders has), then it's up to the IOC to decide what they like best.  It's not disqualifying for, say, Stockholm to offer up alpine events in Are.  Might hurt their chances, but don't mean they can't make that bid.