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SkiFreak

Those empty seats

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35 minutes ago, SkiFreak said:

Lots of empty seats at the women's gold hockey game last night. Couldn't believe it. Thought it would be more full than that. There's even a hashtag #EmptySeats going on Twitter.

Back in Vancouver, VANOC was giving out free tickets for preliminaries to fill the stands at the beginning of the first week. In the second week when I went down for 4 days, my dad and I scored free tickets from a blue coat volunteer for a medal ceremony at BC Place. As a bonus, we ran into Jaromir Jagr outside of the Saskatchewan pavilion after the ceremony. How come the PyeongChang organizing committee didn't at least give out some tickets like VANOC did?

Uhmmm... Gangneung pop - 213,000; PC - 44,000 = about 260,000 for the area.  Vancouver's metro population is what> 1.25 million?  Plus Seattle & Victoria nearby, another 1.5 million??

You guys miss the point of giving it to an Olympic host.  It's to give another part of the world a chance to host & exprience the Olympics.  Full stands are good but NOT a requisite.  

Tulsa, grow up and get over Anecy's losst.  Why isn't Anecy bidding for 2026 if you are so down on non-European hosts??   I bet you have no anser for that.  

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30 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Don't even talk Europe.  NO European city wants to host the WOGs, so your arguments are really quite empty and moot. 

I didn't talk about if European cities want or not host WoG, I said when you have winter sports events it's always full of spectators even it's during the week. 

The most part of european cities understood that they don't need WoG in the futur... There are many other possibilities less expensive to organize winter sports events without IOC and with public support. IOC killed WoG with Sotchi, PC and Beijing, good luck to IOC to find european city for 2026 (Sion will say not and Stockholm isn't really serious). 

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49 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Don't even talk Europe.  NO European city wants to host the WOGs, so your arguments are really quite empty and moot. 

It's not because they don't like winter sports. It's because they don't like spending tons of money when they don't have anymore points to prove. 

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35 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Uhmmm... Gangneung pop - 213,000; PC - 44,000 = about 260,000 for the area.  Vancouver's metro population is what> 1.25 million?  Plus Seattle & Victoria nearby, another 1.5 million??

You guys miss the point of giving it to an Olympic host.  It's to give another part of the world a chance to host & exprience the Olympics.  Full stands are good but NOT a requisite.  

Tulsa, grow up and get over Anecy's losst.  Why isn't Anecy bidding for 2026 if you are so down on non-European hosts??   I bet you have no anser for that.  

Annecy is around 210 000 pop like Gangneung, and they host biathlon world cup in december (Grand Bornand) and BigAir contest (Sosh BigAir 2017) in october, each time it was around 50 000 supporters... How could you explain that ? 

Annecy won't bid again because we don't need WoG and it's too expensive without reason. IOC standards for WoG are stupid. Sochi 36$ Billions, Pyeongchang 14$ Billions minimum... You wast public money with WoG. IOC lost public support in Europe. 

Really I think that a good thing than Annecy lost 2018, France don't need WoG now. We will continue to host some Alpin, Nordic, Freestyle ski world cup or events and it's enough. Annecy is the place to be actually for many winter sports in Europe and we done this without WoG. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tulsa said:

Why in Europe when you have this kind of events is it full of public and supporters ? It's not an excuse, it's just Korean don't have fervor for winter sports. 

Torino was noted for a lot of empty seats as well.

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2 hours ago, Tulsa said:

Why in Europe when you have this kind of events is it full of public and supporters ? It's not an excuse, it's just Korean don't have fervor for winter sports. 

Torino was noted for a lot of empty seats as well.

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8 minutes ago, BTHarner said:

Torino was noted for a lot of empty seats as well.

I don't know about Torino 2006, but maybe it's a price issue for tickets, I don't remember.  The main parts of winter events are free in Europe except some VIP seats but during WoG you need to pay even you aren't in VIP seats, maybe supporters don't want to pay for something than is usually free. Maybe the problem is IOC not Korean public.... 

But usually when I watch on TV Alpin/Nordic etc. ski contests it's full of supporters, sometimes totally crazy and crowed when it's happen in traditional winter sports countries. 

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In Torino 2006, a lot of italians didn't even knew they were hosting the WOG. Many were paying more attention to Serie A, for what I remember. Also Torino struggled on the previous weeks to bring a true "olympic" feeling/enviroment. 

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2 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Uhmmm... Gangneung pop - 213,000; PC - 44,000 = about 260,000 for the area.  Vancouver's metro population is what> 1.25 million?  Plus Seattle & Victoria nearby, another 1.5 million??

Vancouver is 2.5 million. Plus 350,000 in Victoria. Seattle is 3.5 million, but few people traveled from Washington to BC for the Olympics. It is a three hour drive or four hour train trip from Seattle to Vancouver even without a long line at the border or delays from the numerous and slow freight trains carrying oil, coal and lumber.

There are empty seats at nearly all Olympics. London used fairly extreme methods to force the usage of all seats, and most organizers will not do that. Even in France or Germany there would have been many empty seats reserved for the "Olympic family," media and corporate sponsors.

Edited by Nacre
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22 hours ago, nowuniverse said:

Isn't it the reason why those Sports are not popular there in the first place? The weather and the geography don't support it. That's why people don't play or care about it much. The idea here is not to make those countries immediately fall in love with Winter Sports or become Winter Sports powers like NA or Europe. The idea is to spread it to more country where it hasn't been practiced and well known before (regardless the reason) so that people there could be inspired by it especially younger generations so the goal is to introduce the Winter Sports and hopefully spark the interest about those sports there. Legacy of the venues has always been the problem not only with Winter Olympics or South Korea. One can't validate the success of bringing Winter Sports there by simply looking at the seats. The seats only indicate the people who are already interested in it. Inspiring a generation will take longer than just an Olympics to see its effect. That's why they bring it there now so from that point onward more people would know and be inspired about it. It's there for a more philosophical reason than a practical reason. And even so, I don't think it's a big problem because only a few north Asian countries can host it and after Beijing, it would probably go back to NA or Europe.... We probably won't see it being host in a country like Singapore, Thailand, because it's obviously not possible there. In the end, I'm more about well if they want to bring Winter Sports there for a few occasions, cool, let them do it and support them fully and see how it goes rather than why bringing it there or it's not supposed to be there... It may not be a perfect place for Winter Olympics, but still possible and it's good to try something new sometimes. I mean they're rich, they can host it well, they want to bring it there for the first time so let them... They're not going to host it forever but some people start to have problem with it like life and death issue. 

 

Well said.  Looking at number of empty seats is the stupidest way to determine the success of the Winter Olympics in Korea.  Legacy in new horizons doesn't mean being inspired by winter sports in Day 1, buying tickets on Day 2 and filling the seats on Day 10.  Legacy is measured by the state of winter sports 20, 30 years from now.  It's pretty cool to see how far Korea has come even since first bidding for the Winter Olympics in 2003.  Purely a short track nation at the time, 15 years later speed skating and figure skating are also part of the sporting landscape.  Yuna-babies are propping up over the country, and I wouldn't be surprised to see their real Olympic impact beginning from 2022 or 2026 onwards.  And with Korea now having won its first ever curling medal, I can see curling being the next big winter thing in Korea.  And who would've ever thought a Korean would win gold in a non-skating sport so soon?  It happened in skeleton, and now Korea will have a sliding centre to call its own after the Games.  Big change from even 10 years ago.

And the crowds look good to me.  The skating venues are packed, as expected.  The locals have embraced their curling team and their hockey team in the stands, even though everyone knew their hockey team was never expected to contend, and even though games not involving Korea weren't all well attended.  Some of the snowboarding events were well attended, no doubt helped by the locals adopting Chloe Kim as one of their own.  I haven't watched any biathlon so I can't speak to the crowds there, but no one in the world cares about biathlon so I don't blame anyone for not attending biathlon events.  Biathlon is a joke in North America, Asia, Australia, well, everywhere except Europe.  Overall, I'm not sure how anyone would expect much more in terms of attendance, given the circumstances and location of the Games.

From what I've seen and heard, I'll remember Pyeongchang as a Games with friendly people, great weather including a mix of lots of snowfall in the first week and later sunny skies in the second week, a small intimate setting not seen in the Winter Olympics since the 1990's, and great sporting competition.  All without the catastrophe of Sochi or any other major scandal.  It's just about what you can expect for a Winter Olympics in a new horizon.

Edited by Gangwon
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18 hours ago, Tulsa said:

I didn't talk about if European cities want or not host WoG, I said when you have winter sports events it's always full of spectators even it's during the week. 

The most part of european cities understood that they don't need WoG in the futur... There are many other possibilities less expensive to organize winter sports events without IOC and with public support. IOC killed WoG with Sotchi, PC and Beijing, good luck to IOC to find european city for 2026 (Sion will say not and Stockholm isn't really serious). 

Oh well, too bad for you.  Sounds like sour grapes.  If Europe doesn't want to bid or host, that's their problem.  Just means more Winter Games for everyone else!

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7 hours ago, Gangwon said:

 

Well said.  Looking at number of empty seats is the stupidest way to determine the success of the Winter Olympics in Korea.  Legacy in new horizons doesn't mean being inspired by winter sports in Day 1, buying tickets on Day 2 and filling the seats on Day 10.  Legacy is measured by the state of winter sports 20, 30 years from now.  It's pretty cool to see how far Korea has come even since first bidding for the Winter Olympics in 2003.  Purely a short track nation at the time, 15 years later speed skating and figure skating are also part of the sporting landscape.  Yuna-babies are propping up over the country, and I wouldn't be surprised to see their real Olympic impact beginning from 2022 or 2026 onwards.  And with Korea now having won its first ever curling medal, I can see curling being the next big winter thing in Korea.  And who would've ever thought a Korean would win gold in a non-skating sport so soon?  It happened in skeleton, and now Korea will have a sliding centre to call its own after the Games.  Big change from even 10 years ago.

And the crowds look good to me.  The skating venues are packed, as expected.  The locals have embraced their curling team and their hockey team in the stands, even though everyone knew their hockey team was never expected to contend, and even though games not involving Korea weren't all well attended.  Some of the snowboarding events were well attended, no doubt helped by the locals adopting Chloe Kim as one of their own.  I haven't watched any biathlon so I can't speak to the crowds there, but no one in the world cares about biathlon so I don't blame anyone for not attending biathlon events.  Biathlon is a joke in North America, Asia, Australia, well, everywhere except Europe.  Overall, I'm not sure how anyone would expect much more in terms of attendance, given the circumstances and location of the Games.

From what I've seen and heard, I'll remember Pyeongchang as a Games with friendly people, great weather including a mix of lots of snowfall in the first week and later sunny skies in the second week, a small intimate setting not seen in the Winter Olympics since the 1990's, and great sporting competition.  All without the catastrophe of Sochi or any other major scandal.  It's just about what you can expect for a Winter Olympics in a new horizon.

 

Very well said. I have been pleasantly surprised at how well the Games in Pyeongchang have turned out. I can already see a generation being inspired after the many achievements made by Team Korea at home, and given the next Winter Games being coincidentally so close, that will hopefully aide in even more Olympic spirit within the Korea peninsula. I am particularly happy that Korea won a gold in a sliding sport, because that sliding track, which was doomed a white elephant at the start of the Games, may now be able to become a world-class training facility for the likely-growing sliding sports within the country. The same goes for curling. And like you said, Koreans not attending a hockey game between Germany and Canada is the same as the Americans not attending a Biathlon event with all European contenders in a US Olympics. I think it's really important to look back 10-15 years later at a country after hosting, and see how it affected them long term over the short term benefits they saw in the year directly after the Games.

 

Remember, Barcelona 1992 didn't look too good directly after the Games after not bringing in as much money as hoped, but given the vast majority of the budget going towards infrastructure, an airport, a new beach, new hotels, a downtown revitalization, etc, the Olympics are credited to transforming Barcelona and growing it into the economic and tourist hub it is today, and that wasn't achieved in the time immediately following the Olympics. There is much more to Olympic legacy than attendance during the Games.

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17 hours ago, Gangwon said:

 

Well said.  Looking at number of empty seats is the stupidest way to determine the success of the Winter Olympics in Korea.  Legacy in new horizons doesn't mean being inspired by winter sports in Day 1, buying tickets on Day 2 and filling the seats on Day 10.  Legacy is measured by the state of winter sports 20, 30 years from now.  It's pretty cool to see how far Korea has come even since first bidding for the Winter Olympics in 2003.  Purely a short track nation at the time, 15 years later speed skating and figure skating are also part of the sporting landscape.  Yuna-babies are propping up over the country, and I wouldn't be surprised to see their real Olympic impact beginning from 2022 or 2026 onwards.  And with Korea now having won its first ever curling medal, I can see curling being the next big winter thing in Korea.  And who would've ever thought a Korean would win gold in a non-skating sport so soon?  It happened in skeleton, and now Korea will have a sliding centre to call its own after the Games.  Big change from even 10 years ago.

 

They won is skeleton because they trained on their track during a longtime, more than others countries. Korea has never won something in skeleton outside Korea. 

Empty seats is an indicator about popular fervor and when it's empty it means : nobody care... It's fact. 

17 hours ago, Gangwon said:

And the crowds look good to me. 

It's because you never see something else than korean event... It wasn't crowed, too many empty seats in too many sports... Really the atmosphere was bad about public excepted in ice area. There are a lot of criticisms about this point, sometimes you had more volunteers than publics... It's a fail. 

In Europe each day in newspaper and tv you have criticisms about this WoG and also the next one and the previous one... You can heard some voices say it will be the end of WoG soon. 

17 hours ago, Gangwon said:

  I haven't watched any biathlon so I can't speak to the crowds there, but no one in the world cares about biathlon so I don't blame anyone for not attending biathlon events.  Biathlon is a joke in North America, Asia, Australia, well, everywhere except Europe.  Overall, I'm not sure how anyone would expect much more in terms of attendance, given the circumstances and location of the Games.

But Europa is the heart of winter sports without Europe winter sports don't exist. And what about Nordic ski ? Alpin Ski ? Freestyle ski ? With empty seats too. No one cares too ? You are a joke obviously. You should come in Europe to see some winter events, maybe you could understand what does it mean popular fervor and full events. 

 

17 hours ago, Gangwon said:

From what I've seen and heard, I'll remember Pyeongchang as a Games with friendly people, great weather including a mix of lots of snowfall in the first week and later sunny skies in the second week, a small intimate setting not seen in the Winter Olympics since the 1990's, and great sporting competition.  All without the catastrophe of Sochi or any other major scandal.  It's just about what you can expect for a Winter Olympics in a new horizon.

Of course Korea is able to host and organize world event, Korea shows great things and I'm really happy for them but about winter sports they show only one thing, it's not for them excepted skating. They should try to bid to SoG. 

Lots of snowfall ? Is it a joke ? 98% fake snow, stop your corporate bullshit. It wasn't intimate too, it was without popular fervor, without love... Have you seen Lillehammer in 1990's or Albertville ? You speak without to know anything. 

The problem for Korea and this WoG, the main reason why they host this WoG : it's national pride, they want to show their pride and to say "we are able to host WoG" like North America and Europe and of course like their neighbor Japan. They don't care about the legacy or if public wanted this games or not it was only pride and for me it is not a good reason to host WoG. When you are able to destroyed a national forest only for a race, it shows their foolishness. 

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Tulsa please stop.

I have been to six WOGs, starting with Albertville, and I am in Gangneung these days. I can tell you that PC 2018 compares very favorably in terms of attendance of ski events with the last games in Western Europe, ie Torino 2006. And I have seen it first hand for both Games.

Organisation wise, volunteers wise, mood wise, I can only give praises to PC 2018. The area is cold and dry but indeed contrary to your many predictions of doom and gloom, there is snow and I have not heard any competitor complaining about it.

You are just speaking according to your sour grapes state of mind relative to Annecy 2018. But I find it sad that this leads you to diminish the very good work performed by our Korean friends.

All Games have their shortcomings. Albertville had theirs (venues too spread out, bobsled venue which can only operate early in the Morning, for instance), even Lillehammer had theirs. Torino had its unpreparedness and empty seats. Sochi was nearly perfectly organized but at an unaffordable cost and lacked snow.

So thanks to Korea for these wonderful Games.

 

Edited by hektor

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On 2/22/2018 at 6:46 PM, SkiFreak said:

Lots of empty seats at the women's gold hockey game last night. Couldn't believe it. Thought it would be more full than that. There's even a hashtag #EmptySeats going on Twitter.

Back in Vancouver, VANOC was giving out free tickets for preliminaries to fill the stands at the beginning of the first week. In the second week when I went down for 4 days, my dad and I scored free tickets from a blue coat volunteer for a medal ceremony at BC Place. As a bonus, we ran into Jaromir Jagr outside of the Saskatchewan pavilion after the ceremony. How come the PyeongChang organizing committee didn't at least give out some tickets like VANOC did?

POCOG gave tickets to volunteers.... 

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1 hour ago, Tulsa said:

They won is skeleton because they trained on their track during a longtime, more than others countries. Korea has never won something in skeleton outside Korea. 

Empty seats is an indicator about popular fervor and when it's empty it means : nobody care... It's fact. 

Medals on home soil still counts.  It still brings the locals to the events.  And France couldn't win a sliding medal in Albertville, so maybe something is wrong with France as a winter nation if it can't even win a sliding medal on home soil.

 

1 hour ago, Tulsa said:

It's because you never see something else than korean event... It wasn't crowed, too many empty seats in too many sports... Really the atmosphere was bad about public excepted in ice area. There are a lot of criticisms about this point, sometimes you had more volunteers than publics... It's a fail. 

In Europe each day in newspaper and tv you have criticisms about this WoG and also the next one and the previous one... You can heard some voices say it will be the end of WoG soon. 

Yeah, I don't watch biathlon because it's boring and nobody in North America cares about the sport.  The rest of the world doesn't care about biathlon either.  Only Europe.  Nobody else watches biathlon and nobody else cares.  TV networks don't even bother to show it on prime time, if at all.  Biathlon is a regional sport, not an international one.  Koreans in Pyeongchang don't have to apologize for not spending their hard earned money to watch something they or the rest of the world don't care about.  They're still attending other events, like skating and snowboarding.  Those are international sports, because everyone does it.

 

1 hour ago, Tulsa said:

But Europa is the heart of winter sports without Europe winter sports don't exist. And what about Nordic ski ? Alpin Ski ? Freestyle ski ? With empty seats too. No one cares too ? You are a joke obviously. You should come in Europe to see some winter events, maybe you could understand what does it mean popular fervor and full events. 

Lol Europe is not the heart of winter sports.  Maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore.  In Europe, Germany and Norway are real winter nations with real fervor, but France is not a real winter nation.  France is not a winter power, and it's not an all-around winter nation either.  France only medals in snow sports.  They only medal in the same sports all the time.  If France was such a winter nation, where are their ice medals?  Where are their sliding medals?  Why don't they ever do anything in speed skating?  Short track?  Hockey?  Curling?  Bobsled?  Skeleton?

It would be funny looking back at those posts you made when Annecy was still bidding in 2011.  About how Korea could only ever medal in speed skating and short track, and how they sucked at everything else.  Funny how things turn out, as now Korea has now medalled in sliding, in curling... and snowboarding!  A snow sport medal for a country with no snow!  France had a 70 year head start in winter sports, and now it's not even as good as Korea! :lol: Your problem is you are stuck in 1990 and the old world order.  Maybe in 20 years France will be as obsolete in winter sports as the Soviet Union and East Germany are today.

 

1 hour ago, Tulsa said:

Of course Korea is able to host and organize world event, Korea shows great things and I'm really happy for them but about winter sports they show only one thing, it's not for them excepted skating. They should try to bid to SoG. 

Lots of snowfall ? Is it a joke ? 98% fake snow, stop your corporate bullshit. It wasn't intimate too, it was without popular fervor, without love... Have you seen Lillehammer in 1990's or Albertville ? You speak without to know anything. 

The problem for Korea and this WoG, the main reason why they host this WoG : it's national pride, they want to show their pride and to say "we are able to host WoG" like North America and Europe and of course like their neighbor Japan. They don't care about the legacy or if public wanted this games or not it was only pride and for me it is not a good reason to host WoG. When you are able to destroyed a national forest only for a race, it shows their foolishness. 

Doesn't matter why people want to host.  They don't need to please you, because they can live without your praise.

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9 hours ago, Gangwon said:

Lol Europe is not the heart of winter sports.  Maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore.  In Europe, Germany and Norway are real winter nations with real fervor, but France is not a real winter nation.  France is not a winter power, and it's not an all-around winter nation either.  France only medals in snow sports.  They only medal in the same sports all the time.  If France was such a winter nation, where are their ice medals?  Where are their sliding medals?  Why don't they ever do anything in speed skating?  Short track?  Hockey?  Curling?  Bobsled?  Skeleton?

It would be funny looking back at those posts you made when Annecy was still bidding in 2011.  About how Korea could only ever medal in speed skating and short track, and how they sucked at everything else.  Funny how things turn out, as now Korea has now medalled in sliding, in curling... and snowboarding!  A snow sport medal for a country with no snow!  France had a 70 year head start in winter sports, and now it's not even as good as Korea! :lol: Your problem is you are stuck in 1990 and the old world order.  Maybe in 20 years France will be as obsolete in winter sports as the Soviet Union and East Germany are today.

You prove only one thing, you know nothing. France is regularly the first winter destination in the world for winter sports/holidays sometimes is USA, sometimes France, sometimes Austria. (In 2015 France was first, in 2016 Second et third in 2017, but each time its very close between the 3 countries.). France is in top 3 since the beginning of winter sports. You are totally mad when you say the contrary. Korea will remains far away European and North american countries. Even with PC 2018 Korean remain a minor winter nation/destination. 

Do you really think than PC will become famous like Chamonix or France like a winter destination ? Never, it's impossible because the potential doesn't exist in Korea. 

About winter sports results Germany is in the front of France but there is more population in Germany than in France. It's a logical result. After you said Norway but look, they are better only in winter sports, in SoG Norway doesn't do anything. France is quite similar (proportionally) with SoG and WoG. France has good results in many sports not like some countries than are strong only in 1 or 2 sports (like Netherland or Korea). We won ice medals in artistic skating this times and before too. One more time you speak without to know anything. We won medals in each winter sports, not in PC this time but in our history excepted in hockey... Where is Korean in Alpin ski, Nordic ski ? They don't exist. Only one medals in Snowboard... France remains stronger than Korea in winter and summer sports it's a fact. Korea will disappear after Beijing in winter sports... They do a lot for PC since 2000's but now it's finish, they won't continue to spend money for  winter sports. 

Moreover if you look sports results in totally not only WoG or SoG France is always in the top 7/6. 

10 hours ago, Gangwon said:

Yeah, I don't watch biathlon because it's boring and nobody in North America cares about the sport.  The rest of the world doesn't care about biathlon either.  Only Europe.  Nobody else watches biathlon and nobody else cares.  TV networks don't even bother to show it on prime time, if at all.  Biathlon is a regional sport, not an international one.  Koreans in Pyeongchang don't have to apologize for not spending their hard earned money to watch something they or the rest of the world don't care about.  They're still attending other events, like skating and snowboarding.  Those are international sports, because everyone does it.

One more times you said bullshit. Winter sports exist only think to North America and Europe, all the winter events happens in Europe or North america between WoG, excepted sometimes to prepare WoG in Korea and know WoG in China, they organize some events like Biathlon World championship in PC in 2009. But without European and North America countries to promote winter sports each year, you would not have a winter Olympics. Biathlon it's a major winter sports like Nordic ski or Alpin ski, we don't care if korean, chinese or Australian don't like this sports because they are minor winter nation or winter market... All the winter companies, All the TV spectators come from Europe and North America... It's a fact and you are stupid when you say the contrary.

Korean spend a lot of money since 1990's/2000's to develop winter sports to finally host WoG this year, for they domestic market I think it was a good idea but for the world they remain a minor winter country and they prove it with PC, everything were fake (snow, popular fervor etc.)

I'm pretty sure after Beijing 2022, Korean will comeback outside the top 10 in winter sports for many years. 

Korea is obviously a great country, there able to host world events  and they are a top economy but like winter destination, sorry but they remains far from the top. 

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45 minutes ago, BTHarner said:

Speak for yourself Gangwon. I'm American and I love biathlon.:D

Same here. If I was younger (and more fit), I'd be making use of the Canmore Nordic Centre. Weird, been in Calgary 7 years now and I've rollerbladed there in the summer a few times, but I have yet to x-country ski the 88 Olympics trails. Hopefully I'll fit it in next winter. I'm mainly an alpine skier though. Heading out to Nakiska next week to get some turns in.

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4 hours ago, BTHarner said:

Speak for yourself Gangwon. I'm American and I love biathlon.:D

Yes you personally, but as a whole, we don't care about biathlon in America and Canada.  And well, everywhere else in the world!

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2 hours ago, Tulsa said:

Two questions : Where are the full stadium ? IOC lies about tickets sold

Where are the natural snow ? 

Thank a USA company for PC fake snow

Reality about fake snow

PyeongChang is not the first, now will it be the last, to use artificial snow. If anything, it’s been less of a problem here than many others.

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4 hours ago, Tulsa said:

You prove only one thing, you know nothing. France is regularly the first winter destination in the world for winter sports/holidays sometimes is USA, sometimes France, sometimes Austria. (In 2015 France was first, in 2016 Second et third in 2017, but each time its very close between the 3 countries.). France is in top 3 since the beginning of winter sports. You are totally mad when you say the contrary. Korea will remains far away European and North american countries. Even with PC 2018 Korean remain a minor winter nation/destination. 

Do you really think than PC will become famous like Chamonix or France like a winter destination ? Never, it's impossible because the potential doesn't exist in Korea. 

About winter sports results Germany is in the front of France but there is more population in Germany than in France. It's a logical result. After you said Norway but look, they are better only in winter sports, in SoG Norway doesn't do anything. France is quite similar (proportionally) with SoG and WoG. France has good results in many sports not like some countries than are strong only in 1 or 2 sports (like Netherland or Korea). We won ice medals in artistic skating this times and before too. One more time you speak without to know anything. We won medals in each winter sports, not in PC this time but in our history excepted in hockey... Where is Korean in Alpin ski, Nordic ski ? They don't exist. Only one medals in Snowboard... France remains stronger than Korea in winter and summer sports it's a fact. Korea will disappear after Beijing in winter sports... They do a lot for PC since 2000's but now it's finish, they won't continue to spend money for  winter sports. 

Moreover if you look sports results in totally not only WoG or SoG France is always in the top 7/6. 

One more times you said bullshit. Winter sports exist only think to North America and Europe, all the winter events happens in Europe or North america between WoG, excepted sometimes to prepare WoG in Korea and know WoG in China, they organize some events like Biathlon World championship in PC in 2009. But without European and North America countries to promote winter sports each year, you would not have a winter Olympics. Biathlon it's a major winter sports like Nordic ski or Alpin ski, we don't care if korean, chinese or Australian don't like this sports because they are minor winter nation or winter market... All the winter companies, All the TV spectators come from Europe and North America... It's a fact and you are stupid when you say the contrary.

Korean spend a lot of money since 1990's/2000's to develop winter sports to finally host WoG this year, for they domestic market I think it was a good idea but for the world they remain a minor winter country and they prove it with PC, everything were fake (snow, popular fervor etc.)

I'm pretty sure after Beijing 2022, Korean will comeback outside the top 10 in winter sports for many years. 

Korea is obviously a great country, there able to host world events  and they are a top economy but like winter destination, sorry but they remains far from the top. 

Nope.  France is in decline as a winter nation.  They will never be a top winter nation performer again, because it's not 1965 anymore and now there are other nations France must compete against.  The problem is France can't compete with the newer and now better winter nations.  For how much you hyped up France being such a great winter nation, I was very disappointed with the French performance in Pyeongchang.  They were completely irrelevant in skating races and in sliding sports.  Basically, irrelevant in everything except snow sports.  Korea has already surpassed France as a winter nation performer, as the results from 2018 show once again.  France's day in the sun is over.

France may no longer be a winter nation performer, but the world is happy to use your beautiful mountains for an Olympics in the future (but you must pay for it yourself).  Even if France is becoming more and more irrelevant among winter nations performers, the rest of the world is still happy to win all the medals in front of a French crowd with Chamonix in the background.  You are no longer a top winter nation performer, but at least you will always have beautiful mountains to look at. 

The 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang are now over, and it was a happy success.  I know that just eats you up inside, as you were hoping for a failure for 7 years now.  But because it's over, I've no more reason to speak with you, so adieu and farewell! :P

Edited by Gangwon

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6 hours ago, Gangwon said:

Nope.  France is in decline as a winter nation.  They will never be a top winter nation performer again, because it's not 1965 anymore and now there are other nations France must compete against.  The problem is France can't compete with the newer and now better winter nations.  For how much you hyped up France being such a great winter nation, I was very disappointed with the French performance in Pyeongchang.  They were completely irrelevant in skating races and in sliding sports.  Basically, irrelevant in everything except snow sports.  Korea has already surpassed France as a winter nation performer, as the results from 2018 show once again.  France's day in the sun is over.

Definitively you said Bullshit informations, Korea at home did great games, like every country than host WoG, we missed some easy medals in these games especially in sliding and skating sports, would like mean  the sun is over ? Of course not, look winter sports results not only WoG, we are always in the top 10 since the beginning... Korea will stay back after PC, you will never develop winter sports, you will stay strong only in short track... One sport, good for you. 

You are more stupid than I imagine.

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