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5 hours ago, SkiFreak said:

I keep seeing some church goers holding up yellow Jesus signs at various events. Anyone else notice? I think the signs says something like "Jesus = Heaven, No Jesus = Hell". I just spotted them at the Luge, and spotted them at one of the Alpine events.

I've seen them around American fans/athletes. 

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11 hours ago, Faster said:

I've seen them around American fans/athletes. 

Probably some friends of Mike Pence.

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I do not think PyeongChang 2018 is a bad edition. I believe that many will miss it when it arrives in Beijing 2008 with the lack of snow, in fact someone has images of how it is today to the mountains where the next games will happen?

Brazil does not suffer from economic crisis because of 'Rio 2016', do not forget that we are a US $ 3 trillion economy. The Brazilian economic crisis was built through deficit in public accounts, social security problems, corruption and manipulation of prices and credit.

I think unfortunately the Olympics have become too big and the IOC does not change its ideology, the IOC increases the amount of sports and it does not realize that this is killing the Olympics. The "failure" of PyeongChang is the result of the policy adopted by the IOC.

What I regret is that since Vancouver 2010 we do not see these games being hosted in a country genuinely identified with winter sports. Where is Munich? Switzerland? Austria? France? Norway Japan? All of them have full conditions to receive an edition. But the IOC prefers artificial cities like PyeongChang, Sochi and Beijing.

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No wonder there are empty seats. Was watching figure skating on CBC's VR app with goggles. I was looking around the arena. Empty seats there too. Everyone's at home watching on their VR goggles for free! :P

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I heard winds picked up again there and 17 spectators got injured by flying debris.

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Clearly, Sochi was the worst WOG ever. Fake arenas, fake host athletes, and shamelessly used in political propaganda by Russia's leader(s). Pyongchang only has the first of these elements, and even if the number of spectators were few even at spectacular events like downhill, the legacy of this WOG will be clearly better. 

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21 hours ago, mr.bernham said:

Probably some friends of Mike Pence.

 ....are we really so offended that there is a large christian population in Korea?

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Hi Tulsa, long time no see.  Great Games, eh?  Pyeongchang revived my interest in the Games after Sochi killed it.  Hope you're enjoying the Olympics from your mountaintop in Annecy.  Lol.

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17 hours ago, Gangwon said:

Hi Tulsa, long time no see.  Great Games, eh?  Pyeongchang revived my interest in the Games after Sochi killed it.  Hope you're enjoying the Olympics from your mountaintop in Annecy.  Lol.

We have snow, perfect venues and the best ski resorts, everything is good here and moreover : no White Elephant to pay for many years. 

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On 2/15/2018 at 7:20 PM, SkiFreak said:

I keep seeing some church goers holding up yellow Jesus signs at various events. Anyone else notice? I think the signs says something like "Jesus = Heaven, No Jesus = Hell". I just spotted them at the Luge, and spotted them at one of the Alpine events.

They are everywhere and quite annoying.

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On 2/22/2018 at 7:16 AM, Tulsa said:

We have snow, perfect venues and the best ski resorts, everything is good here and moreover : no White Elephant to pay for many years. 

Great, I look forward to the next Annecy Olympics!  :lol:

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Okay @Tulsa, are you almost over your two week, sour grapes tantrum? It’s been quite childish at times but, hey, if that’s what floats your boat, and it has added to the board activity, so I guess it’s been worthwhile in your mind, even if I doubt it’s changed even one person’s opinions.

To address your original proposition - no, these have not been the worst WOGs in history, you’ll be disappointed to hear (if not accept). In all, they’ve been pretty good, well organised, lacking in major scandals, engendered a bit of positive and hopeful news out of the Korean Peninsula after a year of anything but, been more focussed on the events rather than extraneous issues and at the end more positive in spirit than many. Was it one of he best ever? Well, that’s always going to be a subjective call. Myself, I’d rate them as modesty successful but no Lillehammer (I guess I’ve just preculuded my post in the “verdict on the games” thread). Others may/will have differing opinions.

Anyway, you’ve been hung up on this notion that certain countries, notably Korea and China, just aren’t fit to host a winter games and should never be given that honour. What utter arrogant bullish!t! The games belong to the world, and anyone with the means and sheer physical and geographic capability are entitled to host. They do not belong to a select group of “approved” countries. The WOGs themselves are already constrained to a smaller pool of possible hosts because of geographical and climatic requirements. But to follow your logic, that pool should be made even smaller to suit your offensively patronising cultural prerequisites. Yes, traditional winter sports countries in North America and Europe will always make good winter games hosts - and they will continue to do so for the lion’s share of WOGs in the future. But it’s important, even essential, that the less traditional locals - the Koreas and Chinas - also get their chance at times too. They need to be able to have the chance to embrace the Olympic spirit, to be exposed to the winter sports, to be given the chance to show off their societies and landscapes and hopefully be inspired to get more enthused by winter sports. And the WOGs can indeed achieve this - Japan really wasn’t a traditional winter sports country before its first WOGs, but now I see in recent posts of yours that it’s been promoted to your personal “WOG-worthy” club. It’s similar to the summer games - i would be easy to jut spread them around a small selection of advanced and venue-rich cities and nations (*cough, cough, Paris and LA) and never venture away from them ever. And, yes, there’s a legitimate debate to be had over the merits and social responsibility of less-developed and affluent cities and countries, like Rio or somewhere in Africa, hosting such an expensive extravaganza, but at the end of the day it is important and essential that they are allowed or even encouraged to share the spirit of the Olympics by hosting when their circumstances responsibly permit them.

To specifically address some of your recurrent “points” of the past fortnight.

Let’s take audience crowds. Okay, yeah, there were empty seats at times and not everything was packed to capacity or bursting. But that happens at EVERY games, even the most successful ones, and in winter games, even in your beloved and winter sports successful approved Western European host cities. There’s a lot of reasons why his is so - sponsor seats not being taken up, prices, travel costs etc. But there also were large contingents of enthused and respectful locals at many events, particularly those that they hold dear or had good chances in (and that’s  natural, and again to be expected of any hosts). There were also decent numbers and contingents of spectators from around the world coming in to cheer their teams. And as was mentioned in other threads as well, while large crowds certainly can lift a good games to something truly special, at the end of the day it’s not the priority issue to decide on the success of a games or not. Particularly when for the overwhelming bulk of the world’s population, the games are experienced through television. The Koreans embrace of the games was average, but certainly not dire and certainly not games-wrecking.

And onto climate. You’ve been railing against fake snow an barren landscape. What I saw on screen was constant mention of extreme cold and good snow cover of the venues amidst attractive wintry landscapes around. The biggest problem was a bit of wind in the first week disrupting some events. All games, and particularly the winter games, are hostage to the weather. PyeongChang wasn’t the first to use, or even the most drastically in need of using, artificial snow. Some of your beloved approved tradional hosts have had far more problems with their snow cover. In all, PyeongChang had far less snow and weather issues than many previous winter hosts.

When the campaign to choose the 2018 host was in full swing I was firmly, for personal and emotional reasons, hoping for Munich. But that was not to be - que sera sera. I’m glad now, and think it was good an important, that they chose PyeongChang. For all the reasons mentioned above, I think it was essential that the IOC spread the winter games beyond the NA-Europe winter sports insider’s club. Maybe, to make a tidier list of host cities, it could have been four years earlier or four years later, bu it definitely had to happen. And Korea certainly didn’t drop the ball (or puck or whatever).

Anyway, I guess for you it’s back to four years grumbling bitterly under your rock. Have fun. See you in Beijing 2022, I guess, for Round 2 of your dummy spit.

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Dear Tulsa - 

Hello from Gangneung, South Korea.

As you know I am a fellow Frenchman. I will not rate Games from worst to best. I have been to six of them. All I can provide is a personnal feeling, among the six I attended, the ones I enjoyed the least are the Torino 2006 Games. The attendance to the alpine venues where I went was low, and the big city was engulfing the Olympic feeling of the Games. Does not mean they were better or worse, just a personal impression, and comparison to my previous visit to SLC. I have also to break some news to you : Albertville 92 Games were not among my best experiences either. In Albertville, I attended the Games from OC to CC,  being there for sixteen days, going to up to three events a day, more than 30 events total, including all figure skating events but one. The Ceremonies were great, real breakthrough ones, but the too spread out venue plan was a logistics nightmare and removed some of the Olympic feeling by being too diluted through the Tarentaise.

My best experience - no surprise there - is Lillehammer 94, you can't beat the Norwegian Games for the mood. And by the way Lillehammer was as cold or even colder than PC. I was at the 50 km and I still feel cold thinking of it.

I would put PyeongChang on par with SLC in my memories. Contrary to your statement, the ten events where I went (hockey, alpine skiing, nordic skiing, bobsled, figure skating, speed skating, short track) were packed except for the best seats Here is why. I made the point for Sochi, one of the issues at the Olympics is that the best seats, reserved for Olympic family, TOP sponsors, athletes, etc are often empty, and since these are the best seats, they are more conspicuous on the broadcast. The Olympic park in Gangneung was smaller than Sochi's and was nicely crowded. Long queues at each pavilion of the sponsors showcases.

I can not give enough praise to the wonderful PyeongChang volunteers ; the quality of the brand new facilities and of the venues is great - and there was snow. And free Wifi in each venue or ice rink. The compact venue plan made it easy to watch multiple events on the same day, even if you switch from Alpensia to Gangneung. You can't beat the KTX which takes you between the stations of both clusters in about 20 mn at high speed and for about 6000 wons in comfortable seats.

Regarding Sochi, wonderful experience overall for me, great organisation and venues. It is only the context which makes these Games feel "Bad".

Edited by hektor
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On 24/2/2018 at 12:05 AM, Sir Rols said:

 In all, they’ve been pretty good, well organised, lacking in major scandals, engendered a bit of positive and hopeful news out of the Korean Peninsula after a year of anything but, been more focussed on the events rather than extraneous issues and at the end more positive in spirit than many. Was it one of he best ever? Well, that’s always going to be a subjective call. Myself, I’d rate them as modesty successful but no Lillehammer (I guess I’ve just preculuded my post in the “verdict on the games” thread). Others may/will have differing opinions. (...)

Do you think they will change the Korean Peninsula problem ? Are you so naive ? If South Korea got closer from North Korea it's only to avoid terrorism attack from north Korea during WoG like for Seoul 1988 (North Korea destroyed with a bomb a south korean plane). 

When you destroyed a national forest to build a track and when you use 98% fake snow isn't a scandals ? I don't know where you live but I read many criticisms about this the last 15 days. 
PC like Sotchi and soon Beijing showed they aren't able to manage winter events with global warming and environmental issues. Korean PC 2018 bid director has been accused for corruption juste after PC choice, isn't a scandal ? PC exceeded the WoG initial budget... All these factors give argues to European countries to not bid for futur WOG. 

When you talk about Paris and Los Angles, maybe, I say maybe it will be the first time since a very long time than we will have countries than will respect financial budget, human rights and avoid bribes and white elephants in the same time. London, Rio, Athens, Beijing, Sotchi, PC didn't do that.  

About snow, it was fake. The weather is dry in south korea during winter, it's the reason why they need to produce fake snow. It's a fact, I gave some link to USA today etc.

The problem here, it is that  a lot of contributors talk without to know something about bid countries or bid cities or even geographical or economic contexts, you repeat what you read in some propaganda news. Of course if you read Russian newspapers everything was perfect in Sotchi. If you listen IOC promotors and sponsors all the snow is natural and all the stadiums were full of supporters... Stop your bullshit. Look the reality, you lost all the bid cities for 2024 and the only reason why Paris continued their bid to 2024, it is because they didn't ask public opinion with a referendum.  IOC had to negotiate to keep Paris and Los Angeles, they avoided an historical fail. You have no bid city for 2026, Sion will say not like Switzerland did since 2006, maybe Calgary, IOC must be praying for a Calgary bid... Nobody trust IOC and you are like IOC on gamesbid, between you to say "it was perfect", "nice host", "great success" but look the reality... No one wants these kind of WoG and no one wants WoG now. It's a fact.

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Tulsa, you’ve been determined to hate these games for the past seven years. You decided before they started that they were already the worst games you could imagine. It’s a pity that your hatred and sour grapes could not allow you to just sit back, relax, and enjoy a pretty decent games. Your loss.

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