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But how do you know it will be Salt Lake?  Innsbruck plopped; Oslo and Stockholm are non-starters -- so how can you assume that Salt Lake will be the anointed US candidate, at this point, for 2026?  There is nothing but conjecture at this point.  Show me convincing proof and I will back down.  

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15 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

But how do you know it will be Salt Lake?  Innsbruck plopped; Oslo and Stockholm are non-starters -- so how can you assume that Salt Lake will be the anointed US candidate, at this point, for 2026?  There is nothing but conjecture at this point.  Show me convincing proof and I will back down.  

IF the USOC bids it would not be logical to pick any state other than New York or Utah due to construction costs. The IOC wants to minimize costs as much as possible to show European cities that they can host the games without significant financial waste. But New York would be logistically difficult due to the remoteness and lack of infrastructure around Lake Placid.

Or, to put it another way, there is little to no chance that Denver or Buffalo will want the Olympics, that the USOC would pick Denver or Buffalo over Salt Lake City, or that the IOC would want an expensive Colorado bid instead of a cheap Utah bid. The chances of all three happening seem negligible.

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Baron, where is YOUR "convincing proof" that it couldn't be Salt Lake City. All you're providing is conjecture as well. Yeah, Innsbruck plopped, & that was WITH a cost-effective bid. 

This article here is from three years ago as to why SLC makes much more sense than Denver. And interestingly enough, the authors views are flipped-flopped from your own from back then. And fast forward 'til now, & it's even more blatantly clear why Salt Lake is a no-brainer, especially after today's vote in Tyrol.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-17/sports/chi-salt-lake-the-best-winter-olympic-host-choice-20140317_1_winter-olympic-sochi-olympic-olympic-charter

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But where is the PROOF that it will be Salt Lake City?  NOTHING; and it has not been confirmed by the USOC.  Therefore, I don't buy it that it will automatically be Salt Lake.  Not saying it won't happen; but it's NOT a given until the USOC confirms it.  I still say they want to give Denver a chance.  

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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You sound like a certain former you-know-who that use to roam these boards with their "where is your proof" business. That was exactly their argument when I believed a few years ago that L.A. was inevitably (after all things considered) going to be the U.S.' next summer Olympic host. And here we are, a few years later & L.A. has been anointed with the duty of hosting the 2028 Summer Games.

I'm sure that the USOC might want to give Denver 'a chance'. But is it feasible in this dire Olympic bidding climate these days to give them that chance. Odds are not likely. And after giving Boston that same chance a couple of years ago & it blowing up in their face, I don't think that giving chances is going to be in the USOC's next strategy, but rather going with something that'll be much more of a sure thing.

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Well, I'm not trying to 'convince' you (this is Gamesbids afterall). But your rabid arguments aren't convincing, either. 

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"Rabid"?  :blink:  All I'm asking for is solid proof that it's SLC's for the taking -- and that there are NO solid challengers, which I think there will be.   

Are we even on the same planet??  Probably not. 

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When you're incessantly asking for proof, then yes, you're being quite irrational (like a certain socal weed was for 'LA24'). Since when does what anyone says on these forums need "convincing & solid proof" (& that includes anything you say around here as well. Where's your PROOF that it will be Denver's?!).

Especially when I NEVER said that it's Salt Lake's for the "talking" or that it "will" be theirs. That's YOUR interpretation (or "twisting"). I never said that Denver *couldn't* be a "solid" challenger, either. Again, that's your interpretation there. I'm just NOT "convinced" at this point in time that they could be (& obviously I'm not the only one around here that thinks that). We don't agree with each other, fine. Doesn't mean though that we need to make this into some sort of trial (like every other topic on these damn boards) just bcuz we don't agree.

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5 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

"Rabid"?  :blink:  All I'm asking for is solid proof that it's SLC's for the taking -- and that there are NO solid challengers, which I think there will be.   

Are we even on the same planet??  Probably not. 

030ce6e3b914e7520c48a64ccecf26c1--tommy-

21 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

World Cup 2026 would preclude WOG 2026 for the US.  So, Calgary (which is not tabbed as a Canadian WC host city) might get 2026;  the US is better poised for 2030.  

Within a month, Canada hosted both the Women's World Cup and the Pan Am Games.  Toronto was left off the list of hosts for the WWC.  This will not be an issue for the World Cup and Salt Lake/Denver can easily drop themselves from the list of potential host cities if they think it will be (Salt Lake and Denver ARE being considered as host cities.. USA, Mexico, Canada 2026 World Cup Bid Trims Potential Host List to 32 Cities).  We know the IOC make a big deal about this with Turkey and their bid to host Euro 2020 which coincided with their Olympic bid (looks like they made the wrong choice there), but as Nacre alluded to, the IOC doesn't have the luxury of following their own rules on that one.  They're desperate at this point, so they may not have a choice.

As for the Salt Lake vs. Denver debate, nothing has been decided.  You know no one is trying to make that point.  If the USOC is looking at a bid, they'll absolutely give Denver a look.  They will need to convince the USOC they have their act together though.  Maybe they can do it, but if I'm placing bets on this one, my money would be on Salt Lake over Denver if the USOC is picking 1 of them and putting it up for bid.

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I remember reading not too long ago a Reno-Vegas proposal with Vegas hosting the ceremonies in the new Raiders Stadium, and figure skating, speed skating etc at their big arenas (tmobile, mgm grand, thomas & mack, orleans)

 

is it actually a thing or no chance of them bidding?

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On 10/15/2017 at 8:09 PM, baron-pierreIV said:

But where is the PROOF that it will be Salt Lake City?  NOTHING; and it has not been confirmed by the USOC.  Therefore, I don't buy it that it will automatically be Salt Lake.  

 

On 10/16/2017 at 9:27 AM, baron-pierreIV said:

"Rabid"?  :blink:  All I'm asking for is solid proof that it's SLC's for the taking -- and that there are NO solid challengers, which I think there will be.   

Are we even on the same planet??  Probably not. 

Well, well - it looks like here's is your "solid & convicing proof" that it "will" be Salt Lake's for the "taking"!! :lol: So yes, we're not on the same planet. You're obviously on the one called 'Denver'. :P

https://gamesbids.com/eng/robs-bidblog/bidweek-bach-takes-control-as-salt-lake-city-enters-2026-olympic-bid-race/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gamesbidsrss+(GamesBids.com+Headlines)

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12 hours ago, Max said:

I remember reading not too long ago a Reno-Vegas proposal with Vegas hosting the ceremonies in the new Raiders Stadium, and figure skating, speed skating etc at their big arenas (tmobile, mgm grand, thomas & mack, orleans)

 

is it actually a thing or no chance of them bidding?

It was floated out there, but never really taken seriously.  Remember that Las Vegas is the city that tried to submit a last minute bid for the 2020 Olympics without the USOC's backing and basically got laughed out of the room.  I doubt any proposal involving Vegas will gain any traction.

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On 10/17/2017 at 11:14 PM, Max said:

I remember reading not too long ago a Reno-Vegas proposal with Vegas hosting the ceremonies in the new Raiders Stadium, and figure skating, speed skating etc at their big arenas (tmobile, mgm grand, thomas & mack, orleans)

 

is it actually a thing or no chance of them bidding?

What a f**king stupid idea, having so many events hosted 500 miles apart, especially when the ceremonies are involved.  

When it comes to US winter bids, SLC is the LA of winter games. Yes they're the most prepared and would be the least costly of all other potential US bids, but the USOC would probably overlook them for Denver or Reno/Tahoe since they're new/fresh bids.

As much as I'd want to see a Denver or Reno/Tahoe bid over an SLC bid, it's best the USOC play it safe and go for SLC. Also NOlympics might still be around to screw up a US bid and the USOC would end up with SLC one way or the other.

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31 minutes ago, LatinXTC said:

When it comes to US winter bids, SLC is the LA of winter games. Yes they're the most prepared and would be the least costly of all other potential US bids, but the USOC would probably overlook them for Denver or Reno/Tahoe since they're new/fresh bids.

As much as I'd want to see a Denver or Reno/Tahoe bid over an SLC bid, it's best the USOC play it safe and go for SLC. Also NOlympics might still be around to screw up a US bid and the USOC would end up with SLC one way or the other.

The USOC looks like they're already playing it safe & moving forward with SLC. 

https://gamesbids.com/eng/robs-bidblog/bidweek-bach-takes-control-as-salt-lake-city-enters-2026-olympic-bid-race/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gamesbidsrss+(GamesBids.com+Headlines)

I'm sure that they don't want another Boston 2024 debacle. I think the idea of "new/fresh" bids are going to be put on hiatus for quite a while. Especially when last Sunday, Innsbruck gave a pretty resounding NO to a 2026 Winter Bid. 

After the growing costs of the Olympics over the last couple of decades, & dozens & dozens of white elephants being left behind in cities all around the world, I'm all for using existing been there, done that facilities over new & fresh. And it looks like many citizens from around the world are starting to feel the same way.

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There is also a problem of who would use the stuff that gets built with a new American or Canadian city. I think the new Chinese construction for 2022 will leave a decent legacy because China will want to have their own bobsledding track, ski jumps, speed skating rink, etc for their national teams to train at. But a third bobsledding track, additional ski jumps, speed skating rinks, etc will not get much (if any) support from the US and Canadian national sports programs.

A Salt Lake City bid works for Utah (they already have the venues), for the USOC and for the IOC. Something has to go seriously wrong for the USA to bid with anything else except perhaps an upstate New York regional bid. The same is true for Canada and Calgary.

If some other city wants to host a winter sports festival, why not bring back the Pan-American Winter Games? The sports administrators would love to have another opportunity to sip champagne in five star hotels, and the host would not have to build any of the awkward facilities.

Edited by Nacre

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3 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Funny that they should be talking with the IOC rather than the USOC?

Did you read the article?  It answers that question for you.

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15 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:
Quote

A USOC leader said in October that the U.S. wants to be part of the discussion if the IOC wants to award the 2026 and 2030 Olympics in one vote like it did for Paris 2024 and Los Angeles 2028. In that case, the USOC may be interested in entering the next round of bidding.

that the Dilemma for the IOC and USOC right now - they don´t know if they should do a double for 2026/2030 or if they are even able to do so.

What if there no 2 Candidates at all for 2026? Sion face a public vote, Calgary not sure in the Race yet as well, and the USOC prefers 2030.

 

 

USOC might enter for 2026 to get the 2030 games, and will end up with 2026 due the lack of other candidates (just a possible scenario)

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On December 9, 2017 at 7:11 AM, cube said:

that the Dilemma for the IOC and USOC right now - they don´t know if they should do a double for 2026/2030 or if they are even able to do so.

What if there no 2 Candidates at all for 2026? Sion face a public vote, Calgary not sure in the Race yet as well, and the USOC prefers 2030.

 

 

USOC might enter for 2026 to get the 2030 games, and will end up with 2026 due the lack of other candidates (just a possible scenario)

Hopefully Stockholm and Sion can vote to stay in the race, as that will give a good option for 2026, allowing Salt Lake or Calgary to take the second option, should it be awarded, for 2030. I would personally shoot for Calgary to 2030, just because I feel like they will be like Munich in the sense hat if they dont get it, they won't try again, because of all the work it took to get it ready. Plus, if the IOC can get a stable bid from a Western/Northern European city that can make it all the way through to voting, it is almost guaranteed to win at this point, just to help with longevity purposes. I really think the IOC is worried about getting future of Europe and Olympic Bids.

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On 25.12.2017 at 4:56 PM, anthonyliberatori said:

Hopefully Stockholm and Sion can vote to stay in the race, as that will give a good option for 2026, allowing Salt Lake or Calgary to take the second option, should it be awarded, for 2030. I would personally shoot for Calgary to 2030, just because I feel like they will be like Munich in the sense hat if they dont get it, they won't try again, because of all the work it took to get it ready. Plus, if the IOC can get a stable bid from a Western/Northern European city that can make it all the way through to voting, it is almost guaranteed to win at this point, just to help with longevity purposes. I really think the IOC is worried about getting future of Europe and Olympic Bids.

another Dillema for the IOC could also be 3 strong Candidates (Calgary. Sion, Stockholm).

Would they do a double and piss off one of the Countries/Cities for the Future?
also it would be risky not to do a double, cause you never know if those cities are willing to bid again, or win a public poll again to be able to bid again
 

But if i should make a prediction i would predict Sion and Stockholm to drop out and we get a double with Calgary 2026 and USOC 2030.

 

 

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7 hours ago, cube said:

another Dillema for the IOC could also be 3 strong Candidates (Calgary. Sion, Stockholm).

Would they do a double and piss off one of the Countries/Cities for the Future?
also it would be risky not to do a double, cause you never know if those cities are willing to bid again, or win a public poll again to be able to bid again
 

But if i should make a prediction i would predict Sion and Stockholm to drop out and we get a double with Calgary 2026 and USOC 2030.

 

 

I was thinking your last sentence before I actually read it. Pissing off one of the strong European bids is only contingent on them actually making it to final voting. Sion and Stockholm will both have referendums that could make or break their bids, but given the history, it could very well break their bids. If they both drop out, we will likely be looking at Calgary 2026 and USOC  2030, but, if one manages to stay in, I could see them giving that city 2026, and Calgary 2030, pissing off the USA. The USA will likely bid for 2034 anyway if the momentum was started and not carried through, particularly in Salt Lake, a city that really liked hosting, got a lot out of it, and really wants to do it again. Plus, there was a 6 year difference between Atlanta 1996 and Salt Lake 2002, so LA 2028 and Salt Lake 2034 will be nicely spaced out. 

 

This is a problem the IOC would like to have, though, countries like Canada, USA and Switzerland in competition, instead of China and Kazakhstan. ;)

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15 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

I was thinking your last sentence before I actually read it. Pissing off one of the strong European bids is only contingent on them actually making it to final voting. Sion and Stockholm will both have referendums that could make or break their bids, but given the history, it could very well break their bids. If they both drop out, we will likely be looking at Calgary 2026 and USOC  2030, but, if one manages to stay in, I could see them giving that city 2026, and Calgary 2030, pissing off the USA. The USA will likely bid for 2034 anyway if the momentum was started and not carried through, particularly in Salt Lake, a city that really liked hosting, got a lot out of it, and really wants to do it again. Plus, there was a 6 year difference between Atlanta 1996 and Salt Lake 2002, so LA 2028 and Salt Lake 2034 will be nicely spaced out. 

 

This is a problem the IOC would like to have, though, countries like Canada, USA and Switzerland in competition, instead of China and Kazakhstan. ;)

Exactly.  Beggars can't be choosers.  Between Sion, Stockholm, Calgary, and Salt Lake/Denver, the IOC should only be so fortunate to have multiple options.  And if they don't have those options now, pray that 1 or more of them is there for 2030.

The only way a double makes sense now is if there are 2 solid candidates (and only 2) that they want to lock in now.  If there are 3 in the running, it probably won't work.  And obviously if there is only 1, then they can figure out 2030 in a few years, on schedule.

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On 12/27/2017 at 12:03 PM, cube said:

But if i should make a prediction i would predict Sion and Stockholm to drop out and we get a double with Calgary 2026 and USOC 2030.

 

17 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

Sion and Stockholm will both have referendums that could make or break their bids, but given the history, it could very well break their bids. If they both drop out, we will likely be looking at Calgary 2026 and USOC  2030, 

But this goes against the ‘wisdom’ by some around here that a double only works in this 26/30 scenario if one of those cities is in Europe. And if Europe bails out (again) would the IOC award both now without a European city in that mix, like we saw with 2024/2028, at the ‘risk’ of not having Europe in the picture ‘til at least 2034? I’m not saying that I necessarily agree with that train of thought per se, but as the saying goes - “beggars can’t be choosers”, but at the end of the day if the only strong, viable bids left are non-European ones, then so be it.

17 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

but, if one manages to stay in, I could see them giving that city 2026, and Calgary 2030, pissing off the USA. The USA will likely bid for 2034 anyway if the momentum was started and not carried through, particularly in Salt Lake City.

Would the IOC really like/want to ‘piss off’ the U.S., though? Considering that they’re in talks now with the USOC about a possible 2026 or (preferably on the USOC’s part) a 2030 hosting? And considering where the U.S. pretty much agreed to stifle their 2024 bid in order to submit with the IOC’s wishes of L.A. taking 2028 instead? 

And like you said, particularly in SLC where it looks like they’re very eager to do it again, vs Calgary where they still don’t know whether or not to still proceed. And even if the U.S. didn’t get either 2026 or 2030, not so sure that they’d come back for 2034, especially if Calgary were to get 2030, unless of course the IOC is still having issues with getting quality winter (European) bids.

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