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baron-pierreIV

LA 2028 Ceremonies

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On 30/08/2017 at 0:18 AM, jtrevino said:

They only have about an hour (?) total of performance time to touch on everything.

And I think the cultural elements are the most interesting things anyway, so any history segments should be really short. You're going to remember the light, contemporary elements like Giselle walking to Girl from Ipanema or James Bond, the Queen, and Mr. Bean.

You can extend the effective performance time way beyond an hour by sneakily building your overall theme into segments like the doves (or even the cauldron lighting). As for what's memorable- epic can work too !

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On 8/29/2017 at 4:18 PM, jtrevino said:

If the OC has the cowboys, pilgrims, Lincoln, and Washington, I can’t see it being good. Like Ejaycat pointed, Yankee history has been done to death. Sure, it’s relevent, but it’s going to feel like sitting in a high school history lesson. They won’t struggle to find local LA history material that’s interesting. There are a lot of almost cinematic, noirish curiosities in LA's local history.  The challenge is going to be editing things out rather than including things in. They only have about an hour (?) total of performance time to touch on everything.

And I think the cultural elements are the most interesting things anyway, so any history segments should be really short. You're going to remember the light, contemporary elements like Giselle walking to Girl from Ipanema or James Bond, the Queen, and Mr. Bean.

noirish?  You think the Black Dahlia chapter should be considered?  Huh.  THey didn't do  the Jack the Ripper episode for London.

"historic" segments like Ipanema, James ABond, the Queen and Mr. Bean?   Those are pop moments.  THe use of the Ipanema song is strictly a pop reference -- nothing too historic there.  Mr. Bond is a FICTIONAL character, so how can he be historic -- as is Mr. Bean.  :blink:  I think you should bruch up your history, J.  

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12 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

noirish?  You think the Black Dahlia chapter should be considered?  Huh.  THey didn't do  the Jack the Ripper episode for London.

"historic" segments like Ipanema, James ABond, the Queen and Mr. Bean?   Those are pop moments.  THe use of the Ipanema song is strictly a pop reference -- nothing too historic there.  Mr. Bond is a FICTIONAL character, so how can he be historic -- as is Mr. Bean.  :blink:  I think you should bruch up your history, J.  

I see your point, but I think has an all out war chest of things/themes that is can use in lieu of all the Americana crap that has been done to death.

They should focus on major roles LA/Southern Cali played in more recent human history. Space exploration, alternative transportation methods, cultural movements, etc.

I think LA will have the luxury of keeping the boring American history to an absolute minimum, thank god!

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On 8/29/2017 at 6:18 PM, jtrevino said:

If the OC has the cowboys, pilgrims, Lincoln, and Washington, I can’t see it being good. Like Ejaycat pointed, Yankee history has been done to death. Sure, it’s relevent, but it’s going to feel like sitting in a high school history lesson. They won’t struggle to find local LA history material that’s interesting. There are a lot of almost cinematic, noirish curiosities in LA's local history.  The challenge is going to be editing things out rather than including things in. They only have about an hour (?) total of performance time to touch on everything.

Really? 1984 didn't cover it, nor did Atlanta, and SLC was just a circle jerk for Mormons. 

What has to be understood is that these games are not just LA's games. These are America's games. There is no promise that the games will return to the US in any of the organizers lifetime. Sydney was a celebration of Australia, Barcelona of Spain, Athens of Greece, Beijing of China, etc. To only focus on LA history will make the ceremony irrelevant to literally everyone watching at home. Those in America and those abroad. The ceremony should tell the story of America through Los Angeles, that way people across the country can relate, as can global audiences.  

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1 hour ago, JesseSaenz said:

I see your point, but I think has an all out war chest of things/themes that is can use in lieu of all the Americana crap that has been done to death.

They should focus on major roles LA/Southern Cali played in more recent human history. Space exploration, alternative transportation methods, cultural movements, etc.

I think LA will have the luxury of keeping the boring American history to an absolute minimum, thank god!

wtf are you talking about...what alternative transportation methods? Spending 95% of your life on a freeway?

American history is only boring because you are an American and know it. Done theatrically right and it would play beautifully. Tell the story of a nation built on ideals of freedom and the pursuit of happiness. A nation of dreams and a city where dreams come true? The show writes itself. American history shouldn't be irrelevant in the ceremony because it can be a useful tool. 

Start out the ceremony with pioneers moving westward and building a city, building LA. As the city rises showcase too the evolution of America. Cars, trains, radio, tv, civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, immigration. Have it culminate in LA becoming the "shinning city on a hill". 

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1 hour ago, mr.bernham said:

wtf are you talking about...what alternative transportation methods? Spending 95% of your life on a freeway?

American history is only boring because you are an American and know it. Done theatrically right and it would play beautifully. Tell the story of a nation built on ideals of freedom and the pursuit of happiness. A nation of dreams and a city where dreams come true? The show writes itself. American history shouldn't be irrelevant in the ceremony because it can be a useful tool. 

Start out the ceremony with pioneers moving westward and building a city, building LA. As the city rises showcase too the evolution of America. Cars, trains, radio, tv, civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, immigration. Have it culminate in LA becoming the "shinning city on a hill". 

I should have clarified, yes.

 

Hyperloop, Tesla, Space X.

Before I get more heat, Teslas where designed in LA, manufactured in NorCal.

Sorrry!!!

Yes, LA has **** traffic, but it has in a weird twist of events become ground zero for a solution out of its mess.

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15 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

noirish?  You think the Black Dahlia chapter should be considered?  Huh.  THey didn't do  the Jack the Ripper episode for London.

"historic" segments like Ipanema, James ABond, the Queen and Mr. Bean?   Those are pop moments.  THe use of the Ipanema song is strictly a pop reference -- nothing too historic there.  Mr. Bond is a FICTIONAL character, so how can he be historic -- as is Mr. Bean.  :blink:  I think you should bruch up your history, J.  

You misread my last sentence. I think it was clear that I was referring to those as cultural/contemporary elements and making a clear distinction between that and historical elements. Also, the noir-ish elements of LA aren’t the literal race riots, rape murders that I’m thinking about when I said "noir-ish", but things like oil-rush, Mulholland’s aquaduct, and grit/glamour visuals, that sort of thing, that evolved LA at turn of the century.  

1 hour ago, mr.bernham said:

Really? 1984 didn't cover it, nor did Atlanta, and SLC was just a circle jerk for Mormons. 

What has to be understood is that these games are not just LA's games. These are America's games. There is no promise that the games will return to the US in any of the organizers lifetime. Sydney was a celebration of Australia, Barcelona of Spain, Athens of Greece, Beijing of China, etc. To only focus on LA history will make the ceremony irrelevant to literally everyone watching at home. Those in America and those abroad. The ceremony should tell the story of America through Los Angeles, that way people across the country can relate, as can global audiences.  

But LA history is already the lense of American history if they use the points, say for example, native American city origins, multicultural immigration, Chinese railroads, gold rush, etc.  TV, radio/Tesla, etc are more inventions/contributions which I’m not opposed, but my criticism was towards going back further than that into Mayflower/Boston tea party territory. I don’t think it’s necessary and I think there are more interesting elements to touch upon. 

11 minutes ago, JesseSaenz said:

I should have clarified, yes.

 

Hyperloop, Tesla, Space X.

Before I get more heat, Teslas where designed in LA, manufactured in NorCal.

Sorrry!!!

Yes, LA has **** traffic, but it has in a weird twist of events become ground zero for a solution out of its mess.

I don’t know about the Hyperloop, untested technology which is something that could easily be a huge failure in practice or abandoned for some competing or existing tech.  Space X makes a lot of sense if it’s tied with some sort of space tech history of LA, it’s role in designing/building the space shuttles, and the Jet propulsion lab integral to space exploration. And that would actually be something that touches upon the nation’s contributions to science through LA. 

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12 hours ago, JesseSaenz said:

Hyperloop, Tesla, Space X.

Have you considered that if there are RIVAL sponsors to these entities, THOSE will not see the light of day?  Nah, INDUSTRIAL stuff in a ceremony is CORNY.  Who cares about steel and inanimate objects?  They're deadwood. 

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20 hours ago, jtrevino said:

But LA history is already the lense of American history if they use the points, say for example, native American city origins, multicultural immigration, Chinese railroads, gold rush, etc.  TV, radio/Tesla, etc are more inventions/contributions which I’m not opposed, but my criticism was towards going back further than that into Mayflower/Boston tea party territory. I don’t think it’s necessary and I think there are more interesting elements to touch upon. 

I see your point and agree with it. Revolutionary stuff would be appropriate if NYC or Boston or DC or Philly were hosts. If LA tells a historical story I think it should start in 1840s and go forward. There's a lot you could do with it. Once you get out of the 'history' celebrate LA's connection to the sea, its multi-cultural groups, and then move into the athletes, then get into the music and entertainment of LA to bring in the torch.  That could also be a good opportunity to switch over to the coliseum. 

High key...LA should have a train at some point during the OC. 

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You know, for all the popular belief that OCs are big tableaux of the host nation's history, it's really not much of a common theme at all. Off the top of my head: Sydney did it a bit with its aboriginal segment, a very quick and passing reference to discovery and then a sequence of the frontier days, but not much beyond that. Athens of course had its big parade of its classical history, but it really went quiet after the Byzantine times and then went into its more philosophical themes. Beijing had its big history set pieces, but China's always had a point to prove that its achievements (paper, the compass etc) are rarely acknowledged by the West. Rio sorta did a potted history, but mostly tied within the context of the arrival of the various ethnic groups ... and the airplane (again a point it was keen to make against general assumptions of the Wright Brothers). The common theme there is that they all probably feel their history is not as well known, or acknowledged as much, as other nations tales. Otherwise, other, dare I say more culturally confident, hosts have tended to have only small and oblique nods to their history. Barcelona really only had its mythical tale of Hercules crossing the Meditteranean. For all Italy's vast history, it confined it to a single Renaissance garden party in Torino (I thought Italian sport cars got more of tribute there). London for all that it was expected to feature its long and well-known history, confined its historical set piece to the Industrial Revolution, fitting in with its overall ceremony theme of revolution, and there was nary a mention of Roman invaders, knights, 1066 or Tudors. Lillehammer got its Vikings out of the way at the preceding handover ceremony and just went for nordic folklore. And LA 84? Instead of pilgrim fathers, minutemen and cowboys we got a sh!t load of grand pianos and a tribute to American music.

I'd be surprised if LA 28 tried to give us a US history lesson. If it didn't feel the need to in 84, I don't know why it would in 11 year's time. It's not as if US history is little known, or that America lacks in national self-confidence. The music thing was done in 84, but this time I'd expect to see something again around America's cultural contribution to the world (and, yes, maybe in '28 it will be cinema... or maybe more music). Perhaps a nod to the California climate and lifestyle (if surfing's still in the games, I could see a nod to So Cal beach culture). Maybe a reference to Latino and other migrant influences around a melting pot theme. I hope for a bit of humour, a lot of entertainment and some major surprises. I really don't expect to see American History 101 outside anything but a small cameo, if at all.

Edited by Sir Rols

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19 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

You know, for all the popular belief that OCs are big tableaux of the host nation's history, it's really not much of a common theme at all.

Trueish! It would be more accurate simply to suggest that OCs attempt to show key aspects of the host nation's "cultural image"- which typically involves elements of its history, but that can mean very very recent history.

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50 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Trueish! It would be more accurate simply to suggest that OCs attempt to show key aspects of the host nation's "cultural image"- which typically involves elements of its history, but that can mean very very recent history.

Yeah, I'll buy that. An OC is not so much a history lesson or social treatise, but more an attempt by the host city and country to project its self image to the world (and just as importantly to its own citizens), which may or may not touch upon aspects of its remote history.

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Maybe a giant tarpit (a la Athens meets La Brea) in the middle of the Coliseum and all athletes march into the bubbling black pit never to return. Sounds intense, but hear me out:

  • It's Authentic: an iconic Los Angeles experience. 
  • It's creates a Legacy: "LA2028 Memorial Museum contains the remains of thousands of the world's athletes who perished that night in 2028."
  • Supports the Olympic Movement: It boosts the appeal of the Olympics for 2032 candidate cities by cutting the number of athletes they need to organise for by two thirds.

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7 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

You know, for all the popular belief that OCs are big tableaux of the host nation's history, it's really not much of a common theme at all. Off the top of my head: Sydney did it a bit with its aboriginal segment, a very quick and passing reference to discovery and then a sequence of the frontier days, but not much beyond that. Athens of course had its big parade of its classical history, but it really went quiet after the Byzantine times and then went into its more philosophical themes. Beijing had its big history set pieces, but China's always had a point to prove that its achievements (paper, the compass etc) are rarely acknowledged by the West. Rio sorta did a potted history, but mostly tied within the context of the arrival of the various ethnic groups ... and the airplane (again a point it was keen to make against general assumptions of the Wright Brothers). The common theme there is that they all probably feel their history is not as well known, or acknowledged as much, as other nations tales. Otherwise, other, dare I say more culturally confident, hosts have tended to have only small and oblique nods to their history. Barcelona really only had its mythical tale of Hercules crossing the Meditteranean. For all Italy's vast history, it confined it to a single Renaissance garden party in Torino (I thought Italian sport cars got more of tribute there). London for all that it was expected to feature its long and well-known history, confined its historical set piece to the Industrial Revolution, fitting in with its overall ceremony theme of revolution, and there was nary a mention of Roman invaders, knights, 1066 or Tudors. Lillehammer got its Vikings out of the way at the preceding handover ceremony and just went for nordic folklore. And LA 84? Instead of pilgrim fathers, minutemen and cowboys we got a sh!t load of grand pianos and a tribute to American music.

I'd be surprised if LA 28 tried to give us a US history lesson. If it didn't feel the need to in 84, I don't know why it would in 11 year's time. It's not as if US history is little known, or that America lacks in national self-confidence. The music thing was done in 84, but this time I'd expect to see something again around America's cultural contribution to the world (and, yes, maybe in '28 it will be cinema... or maybe more music). Perhaps a nod to the California climate and lifestyle (if surfing's still in the games, I could see a nod to So Cal beach culture). Maybe a reference to Latino and other migrant influences around a melting pot theme. I hope for a bit of humour, a lot of entertainment and some major surprises. I really don't expect to see American History 101 outside anything but a small cameo, if at all.

I hazily remember an "Old West" sequence for the LA84 opening ceremony (not as memorable as the rocket man of course), with covered wagons and dancers dressed in dubious wild west/"pioneer" costumes.  That's what I was getting at in my initial comment in this thread, about settlers moving west in the US; I find it to be such an ethnocentric (and East Coast/Midwest-centric) point of view of what the western US is.  First of all, there were people already living here well before the Europeans arrived, and the Yankees weren't even the first Europeans to have settled here; it's obvious from many of California's (and other western states') place names.  If not a complete rundown of California history (it would take too long of course), maybe a nod to Native and Californio culture should be in the opening ceremony... that's what I would do, anyway.

The 2012 London Olympics conveniently didn't go into British History, at least not into its very early history.  I remember the line from the movie "Howards End" where the Emma Thompson character says something along the lines of England not having its own religious mythology, that they just have a collection of stories about witches and fairies.  NOT TRUE.  Anglo-Saxon religious mythology is basically old Germanic mythology... it's obvious to me by the English names for the days of the week.  It's almost like English people want to believe that they are indigenous to the British Isles, even though Anglo-Saxons are a Germanic people, who only settled/invaded there from the 6th (or 5th?) century CE.  The Celts were there before them, and the Romans were there after the Celts, and left during the Germanic invasions.  It's like English people don't want to admit that they're from somewhere else; their nationalism started early, I guess.  

 

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I don't know anyone who denies that. It's basic primary school history. Weird post ejay.

Edited by Rob.

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1 hour ago, Rob. said:

I don't know anyone who denies that. It's basic primary school history. Weird post ejay.

I stand corrected, then, my apologies.  I guess I was basing an opinion on one line of "Howards End" by taking it in and just running with it.  How very presumptuous of me.

Maybe it's a generational thing?  I mean, wasn't that Tolkien's motivation for writing his books, in that he felt that England didn't have its own ancient stories and mythologies?  I could be wrong with that as well, but I thought I read that somewhere...

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3 hours ago, ejaycat said:

something along the lines of England not having its own religious mythology, that they just have a collection of stories about witches and fairies.  NOT TRUE.  Anglo-Saxon religious mythology is basically old Germanic mythology... it's obvious to me by the English names for the days of the week.  It's almost like English people want to believe that they are indigenous to the British Isles, even though Anglo-Saxons are a Germanic people, who only settled/invaded there from the 6th (or 5th?) century CE.  The Celts were there before them, and the Romans were there after the Celts, and left during the Germanic invasions.  It's like English people don't want to admit that they're from somewhere else; their nationalism started early, I guess.  

Trouble is, the English (and to a lesser extent the Welsh and the Scots) have come from a whole load of somewhere elses. Roman pre-Christian culture partly buried Celtic culture, but then Roman Christian culture partly buried Roman pre-Christian culture, then in its turn was swamped by "Anglo-Saxon" culture, only to be quickly re-introduced in two different forms, from what remained of the Empire (by Augustine) into Kent, and from Ireland via Scotland into the territories north of the Humber centred on York. Then along came the different flavour of Germanic culture from the Vikings, followed by a reintroduction of elements of Celtic culture which had been preserved by post-Roman British exiles in Brittany, blended with Roman classical stories like The Aeneid, and survived as literature to influence another lot of Vikings who had settled in north-west France and became known as "Normans".

And even the Celts arrived thousands and thousands of years after the area was resettled in the wake of the retreating ice sheets ...

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I would love to see an American music tribute. Maybe one could follow someone, possibly a child like Sochi, around a map of the US, stopping above each of the places that have famous American songs. Like "Sweet Home Alabama", "New York, New York", "I Left My Heart in San Francisco", "Good Morning Baltimore", etc. It could all culminate in Los Angeles with '"I Love LA". :lol:

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Also, going with the music theme, I also really enjoyed how London incorperated music into their OC. We all remember the story of the girl and boy who keep catching each other's eyes, and the girl drops her phone, so the biy finds it and travels with her through all the different generations, to the sound of the famous British songs from that time. I think the US could do something like that, an '"American music through the decades" piece, showcasing songs from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, etc. Espeically considering many of these songs will be universally known, I think LA could pull it off.

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2 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

I think the US could do something like that, an '"American music through the decades" piece, showcasing songs from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, etc.

They'd have to do it better then London though- that section was most people's least favourite bit in 2012 (although it must be said that TV commentators both sides of the Atlantic made a mess of it).

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18 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

They'd have to do it better then London though- that section was most people's least favourite bit in 2012 (although it must be said that TV commentators both sides of the Atlantic made a mess of it).

Really? I am surprised actually, it was one of my favorite parts of the whole ceremony. But I imagine the US would find its own original and exciting way to incorperate pop music into the OC, especially considering the US is known worldwide for it's music, LA specifically for some of the most famous rappers, I cannot imagine a US opening ceremony without music.

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13 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

I cannot imagine a US opening ceremony without music.

It's be an interesting challenge though; an OC with no melodies, no instruments, no singing ...

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1 minute ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

It's be an interesting challenge though; an OC with no melodies, no instruments, no singing ...

(I suppose they'd have to make an exception for the anthems, but still ...)

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so far the tread has been discussing weather the OC for 2028 would be about america (with all the founding father, colonial attires Etc) or LA as the city it self (Hollywood in patricular) i would a suggest a marriage of both american with an LA perspective. 

much like London, we start with a redwood forest with the early tribal settlers maybe Spanish church to represent the mexico-Spain colonization. then, it all get rip apart to represent the gold rush where many american journeyed to find gold and/ minerals. add in a bit of westworld to it with cowboys and such. 

the US president can arrive like the queen with a superman or captain america sequence .

they can also add a wizard of oz scene where you can do a 'tribute' to the great depression. it starts in B&W where a girl sing' over the rainbow and then goes to color then they are transported to the emerald city (LA).  

what i think they should also add is a tribute to the LGBT community. basically, i just want rupaul to open the parade of nations with ' category is: Olympic athlete realness ' and also drag queens as sign bearers. 

 

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