Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 578
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Nearly everyone in every Olympic city says "traffic will be terrible!" and then they're proven wrong.   Having lived through the Olympics in my backyard (Vancouver in 2010), those 2 weeks we

New fly-through video posted yesterday of LAX's automated people-mover, scheduled to start construction this year, to be completed by 2023:  

I'm just glad they haven't wasted this opportunity to award both cities. 

1 hour ago, ejaycat said:

???

On the contrary, it's the cheapest route than building an actual permanent pool, with all the concrete and plumbing and cost and hassle of maintaining a pool (pumps, filters, cleaning, etc... pools are a pain in the ass).  

For the 2004 US Olympic Swim Trials which were held in Long Beach, CA, they used a temporary pool that was easily assembled and easily disassembled.  And it worked fine.  Incidentally, where this pool was located is exactly the same site of the 2028 Long Beach cluster of venues:

myrtha-pools-Long-Beach_1.jpg

myrtha-pools-Long-Beach_3.jpg

myrtha-pools-Long-Beach_2.jpg

Images from myrthapools.com

As you can see from the overhead shot, they even built a temporary warmup pool.

It was all fairly easily assembled and disassembled:

 

Where will Synchronized Swimming be held?  Remember, they need to build side viewing chambers for underwater shots. So it's not really as simple as just plopping down two tubs in the ground.  Plus, on the Diving end, they have to build permanent diving platforms with elevators.  And then, if they're lucky, place some beams overhead for overhead camera angles.   And who knows what else the insurance policies will require as well as the Building Codes for 2028 will be -- even if they are temporary structures, because they will hold thousands of people.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Temporary bleachers with a lattice support structure are very cheap and easy to set up and then remove. The problem is that the federations hate them precisely because they are cheap. They want something substantial that does not feel rickety for spectators and offers actual amenities for fans, media, officials and athletes.

If LA and the IOC can strong arm FINA into accepting this it will save a lot of money. But I imagine that FINA is going to absolutely hate it and both they and the international media will do everything they can to criticize LA and give it the Atlanta treatment.

Edited by Nacre
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Temporary bleachers with a lattice support structure are very cheap and easy to set up and then remove. The problem is that the federations hate them precisely because they are cheap. They want something substantial that does not feel rickety for spectators and offers actual amenities for fans, media, officials and athletes.

If LA and the IOC can strong arm FINA into accepting this it will save a lot of money. But I imagine that FINA is going to absolutely hate it and both they and the international media will do everything they can to criticize LA and give it the Atlanta treatment.

No.  I think FINA and the federations now understand that they have to be realistic.  If not, the IOC will force them anyway.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Where will Synchronized Swimming be held?  Remember, they need to build side viewing chambers for underwater shots. So it's not really as simple as just plopping down two tubs in the ground.  Plus, on the Diving end, they have to build permanent diving platforms with elevators.  And then, if they're lucky, place some beams overhead for overhead camera angles.   And who knows what else the insurance policies will require as well as the Building Codes for 2028 will be -- even if they are temporary structures, because they will hold thousands of people.  

My understanding was that swimming, synch. swimming and diving are to be held at this temporary pool in Dedeaux Field (water polo is gonna be at a temporary pool at the Long Beach cluster, I think).  I'm sure that all of the issues you mentioned have been taken into account, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.  I assume they'll just use taller-walled tubs.  

 

8 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Temporary bleachers with a lattice support structure are very cheap and easy to set up and then remove. The problem is that the federations hate them precisely because they are cheap. They want something substantial that does not feel rickety for spectators and offers actual amenities for fans, media, officials and athletes.

Again, I'm sure this will be taken into account.  This is the Olympics after all, I doubt they'll use cheap rickety-type construction.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The other thing w/ building it by Dedeaux, is that they can feed off the main pipes and pumps of Uytengsu.  And even if they install new pumps & filters for Dedeaux, then the Uytengsu machinery will be the back-up if a Rio green-water thing happens.  See, Rio's pool did NOT have a back-up filtration system.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ejaycat said:

???

On the contrary, it's the cheapest route than building an actual permanent pool, with all the concrete and plumbing and cost and hassle of maintaining a pool.

For the 2004 US Olympic Swim Trials which were held in Long Beach, CA, they used a temporary pool that was easily assembled and easily disassembled.  And it worked fine. 

I wasn't questioning the overall cost comparison between a temporary structure over a permanent one (nor how it'll work or be erected). All I said was that it still seems like a big waste. Which it does. Afterall, even temporary, it's still going to cost a pretty penny, is it not.

Rio's temporary swim meet still managed to cost $38 million just to put it up alone. That ain't chump change to the average American.

And obviously, I wasn't the only one thinking along the same lines, as you can see below. 

12 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Agreed.  I get that it's a necessary evil with the Coliseum, but you'd think they'd be able to come up with something more creative than this.  I have a strange feeling we might see a change with this plan at some point between now and 2028.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

.....do we really need to have sync swimming in the Olympics?? snowflake sports.

I just read those rings on the side of the 32 stadium were the flaming rings use in the coliseum for the 84 cauldron lighting.

20901352_10207853388531288_1088302681140

(ha.......video quality looks more like 48 than 84)

gettyimages-488633661.jpg

19esdibksk0m2jpg.jpg

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

The other thing w/ building it by Dedeaux, is that they can feed off the main pipes and pumps of Uytengsu.  And even if they install new pumps & filters for Dedeaux, then the Uytengsu machinery will be the back-up if a Rio green-water thing happens.  See, Rio's pool did NOT have a back-up filtration system.  

Good point. Which throws off the whole 'you don't have to maintain a temporary pool' thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the metal bleachers with lattice supports I have ever sat on have felt "rickety" simply by virtue of the elasticity and ductility of metals. They could use reinforced concrete for support instead of steel and/or aluminum, but that would negate much of the savings of a temporary structure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, FYI said:

I wasn't questioning the overall cost comparison between a temporary structure over a permanent one (nor how it'll work or be erected). All I said was that it still seems like a big waste. Which it does. Afterall, even temporary, it's still going to cost a pretty penny, is it not.

Rio's temporary swim meet still managed to cost $38 million just to put it up alone. That ain't chump change to the average American.

And obviously, I wasn't the only one thinking along the same lines, as you can see below. 

 

....the structure LA is proposing is way more simple that what Rio did.

image-1120040-galleryV9-kdsv-1120040.jpg

...plus it's Rio .... so the stadium probably cost like $37 dollars but you add in Nuzman's cut, the mayor's cut, lula's condo and it probably gets close to 38 mil.

Edited by paul
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, paul said:

.....do we really need to have sync swimming in the Olympics?? snowflake sports.

I just read those rings on the side of the 32 stadium were the flaming rings use in the coliseum for the 84 cauldron lighting.

20901352_10207853388531288_1088302681140

(ha.......video quality looks more like 48 than 84)

gettyimages-488633661.jpg

 

 

 

Interesting factoid, Paul.  I sort of wondered where those rings went; because I had even asked the LA-84 Art Director, Rene Lagler, what happened to those rings?  And he didn't know.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

....i swear i read that and even saw a pic of the refurbished rings. they redid all the metal, added a lighting element inside where the gas pipes would have been, then there was a plexi cap on the front to seal it.......ill try to find the picture and post it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, paul said:

....do we really need to have sync swimming in the Olympics?? snowflake sports.

 Remember, Synchro (solo and duet) made its Olympic debut @ LA-1984 (and local gal Esther Williams supposedly was a main force in getting it in.  Luckily, the Russian gals weren't there, otherwise they would have cleaned up that category.)  So it's safe to say that Synchro will stay there for LA 2028.  

The team event made its debut @ Atlanta 1996.  

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites

...oh forgot LA/Hollywood put it on the map. just seems crazy that not too long ago wrestling was being eliminated but we have girls water dancing.

....here's the close up pic of the LA84 cauldron lighting rings refurbished and mounted on the LA 32 Swim Stadium. (pretty cool pic actually.....with the dove and all...haha....I mean it's LALA land.....B))

....was interesting to hear in that Huell Howser California's Gold video posted buy ejaycat that the concrete used to construct the Swim Stadium was made from Socal beach-sand .......you can see the layered construction behind the rings.

AP_04050707123.jpg

800px-Los_Angeles_Swimming_Stadium.jpg

 

 

Edited by paul
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, FYI said:

I wasn't questioning the overall cost comparison between a temporary structure over a permanent one (nor how it'll work or be erected). All I said was that it still seems like a big waste. Which it does. Afterall, even temporary, it's still going to cost a pretty penny, is it not.

I don't see how it's a big waste, being that it's still cheaper than building a permanent aquatics center?  Then why hold swimming at all?

Hehe in fact, why hold the Olympics at all?  They're a big waste. :P

 

50 minutes ago, FYI said:

Good point. Which throws off the whole 'you don't have to maintain a temporary pool' thing.

You don't have to maintain a temporary pool after its use is done and is disassembled, obviously.  My comment about pool maintenance was in regards to a permanent facility; once its built, and you want to continue using it as a pool, it requires a lot of maintenance, so that's an added cost of building a permanent aquatics center.

I come from the land of the swimming pool.  Trust me, they're a pain in the ass to maintain.  

 

51 minutes ago, paul said:

.....do we really need to have sync swimming in the Olympics?? snowflake sports.

I just read those rings on the side of the 32 stadium were the flaming rings use in the coliseum for the 84 cauldron lighting.

You know what sport I thought was lame?  Rhythmic gymnastics... which, incidentally, also made its Olympic debut at the LA 1984 Games.  I thought it was lame with the girls waving streamers and playing with hoops and stuff, but then, I think it was the 2004 Athens Olympics, I actually sat down and watched rhythmic gymnastics on TV... and I was actually fascinated by it.  It was kind of Cirque de Soleil-ish--- a show I've never even seen.

Interesting tidbit about the flaming rings!  Makes me want to go to the swim stadium now and take a picture of it.

Edited by ejaycat
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ejaycat said:

You know what sport I thought was lame?  Rhythmic gymnastics... which, incidentally, also made its Olympic debut at the LA 1984 Games.  I thought it was lame with the girls waving streamers and playing with hoops and stuff, but then, I think it was the 2004 Athens Olympics, I actually sat down and watched rhythmic gymnastics on TV... and I was actually fascinated by it.  It was kind of Cirque de Soleil-ish--- a show I've never even seen.

...I hear ya.......it' true those girl are monster athletes.......the sync girls too......but those nose things ewwwwwww. i did like that one famous time the sync girls top came off during her routine.

p.s. the rhythmic gymnasts are my favorite for making GB logo comp posters and stuff.....always looks cool with the color and movement.

rythmic-gymnast-footer-900.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ejaycat said:

I don't see how it's a big waste, being that it's still cheaper than building a permanent aquatics center?  Then why hold swimming at all?

Hehe in fact, why hold the Olympics at all?  They're a big waste. :P

Oh, don't get our friend paul here started on that one!! :lol::P

5 minutes ago, ejaycat said:

I come from the land of the swimming pool.  Trust me, they're a pain in the ass to maintain. 

Oh, me too! So like you, I know exactly how much of a PITA (& expensive) pools are to maintain. But that's precisely why it seems to me like a big waste. In the land of 'sunshine' & pools, to put up such a structure for a three-week sports festival, just to tear it down afterwards seems like such a wasted opportunity.

Let's remember that initially the Swimming venue was to be at the LAFC @ at a cost of $100 million. Then it was moved to Dedeaux Field, I'm sure at a lower cost. But as Quaker noted, you'd think that they could've been more creative about it (& I agree, as I cited above). And probably we might see even more changes to the DF plan by the time 2028 rolls around.

13 minutes ago, ejaycat said:

You know what sport I thought was lame?  Rhythmic gymnastics... which, incidentally, also made its Olympic debut at the LA 1984 Games.  I thought it was lame with the girls waving streamers and playing with hoops and stuff, but then, I think it was the 2004 Athens Olympics, I actually sat down and watched rhythmic gymnastics on TV... and I was actually fascinated by it.  It was kind of Cirque de Soleil-ish--- a show I've never even seen.

I agree here. It's always funny listening to the people that criticize some of these Olympic sports as 'snowflake sports'. I bet they couldn't even do a fraction of what some of these athletic 'dancing girls' can do in the pool lol. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, FYI said:

Oh, me too! So like you, I know exactly how much of a PITA (& expensive) pools are to maintain. But that's precisely why it seems to me like a big waste. In the land of 'sunshine' & pools, to put up such a structure for a three-week sports festival, just to tear it down afterwards seems like such a wasted opportunity.

The thing about those temporary aquatic venues is that -- oh, I'm too lazy to dig up my 1983 files, but as a major Olympic venue, it has to be up and running the year before for the TEST event.  And then in the actual Olympic year,  US Swimming will use it for the US champiosnhips/Olympic team selection event, the SOGs, and then the Paras. So, for the Olympic year, it will be up for at least 2-3 months.  

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FYI said:

That's it? It should be up for 2-3 decades, at least.

Well, yeah.  They're paying for the use of all that scaffolding and temporary seats.  That all adds up.  Besides, the County Planning Depts might not allow those to be up for too long if they are not being used regularly. Even London's additional two wings (part of Hadid's permanent structure) came down quickly after their Games.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Well, yeah.  They're paying for the use of all that scaffolding and temporary seats.  That all adds up.  Besides, the County Planning Depts might not allow those to be up for too long if they are not being used regularly. Even London's additional two wings (part of Hadid's permanent structure) came down quickly after their Games.  

I meant that metaphorically, not literally speaking.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Found this in the 1984 Official Report.  Apparently part of Dedeaux Field had already been used for the 1984 set-up:

Quote

The entire venue incorporated a portion of an existing baseball field at USC, its support building, an intramural field, a football practice field, a surface parking lot and a four-story garage. The site was divided by McClintock Street, a private university road. All ancillary competition and spectator facilities were temporary and supported all three aquatic sports that were held there.

The LA 1984 Official Report is one of the best written ORs of any Games. 

http://library.la84.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1984/1984v1pt3.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was bored, and I wasn't sure where I would post these... didn't want to start a new thread... I know this is the LA 2028 thread, but I thought I'd pay homage to the '32 Summer Games and do a then-and-now of sorts, being that I was in Long Beach yesterday and took pictures of the Long Beach Marine Stadium, site of the rowing events during the LA 1932 Games, and also the site of the 1968 US Olympic rowing trials.  It was the first man-made rowing course ever built in the US, and provided a legacy as the Marine Stadium today is used for all kinds of water leisure activities.

 

Old photos from the Los Angeles Public Library and USC Archives.

Look at all those oil derricks back in 1932.

21151535_10207899901214076_4231212389675

21167703_10207899903414131_6129017134134

21246193_10207899904374155_4305944931109

21078321_10207899919734539_3698634952913

21105855_10207899921014571_6308598944994

 

Long Beach Marine Stadium, Sunday, August 27, 2017.  Photos taken by me. In the 1990s, the Long Beach Marine Stadium was listed as a California Historical Landmark.  

21083499_10207899926014696_2693908104584

21200530_10207899930454807_6056988792390

 

The oil derricks are long gone, replaced by homes.

21167525_10207899932574860_8092958357653

21167709_10207899943895143_8258794689955

21167508_10207899954615411_2431103164600

21167360_10207899955535434_8947269654496

 

Token shot of the LA Coliseum Olympic cauldron, from the 1932 Summer Olympics Official Report.  For 1984, it was decided early on not to modify the original cauldron, as the organizing committee wanted to keep the original classic bowl shape.  

21150036_10207900099259027_7369819525730

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...