hektor Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Well, he wanted Paris, he wanted new sports. We are far from that. They should as well take Juan Antonia Samaranch Jr. as IOC President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 I just don't understand why they drop baseball and softball but keep badminton or table tennis in. Explain the logic of that to me!!! Baseball will be fine as a sport with MLB being the "gold medal" for baseball players but softball getting the ax seems pretty harsh. I read in the NY Times that when Rogge wanted to have a "show of hands" ballot when the new sports were being voted on that the delegates booed! Those guys don't want to do anything in the open, do they! I don't blame them it must be fun to make random choices that leave everyone confused using those little electronic voting things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 They should as well take Juan Antonia Samaranch Jr. as IOC President. Does the old man know he has a X-dressing son? :shocked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDPinstripes Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Frankly, whilst I think Baseball's loss is not worth any remonstration or sadness, softball's departure is a bit of a downer. The essential problem with baseball was that its appeal was limited to at best 5 nations, at worst 3. And in the case of one of those countries, i.e. the USA, the professional MLB players were too doped and too rich to even contemplate participating.Softball on the other hand hasn't had anywhere near the problems encouraging the best players in the world to particpate, and whilst its appeal is limited there has been some huge moments in the event's brief run in the games programme. Undoubtedly the USA Vs Australia games at Atlanta and Sydney stand out...remember the missed base plate and Peta Edabone hitting a home run bringing in 2 runs on the last pitch of the game from Lisa Fernandez in the 96 round robins? The problem always has been each event has needed purpose built stadia that generally will not support themselves outside of the games, and outside North America and Japan. So no one should be too surprised that they've gone... As for the other two sports, surely here's an opportunity for rugby 7s to come in for a men's tournament only, and forget adding a 28th sport? Or maybe there should have been a look at netball for the women. Unless the IOC can get an all female squash, karate, golf or roller sport event, the programme will be less gender-balanced (they wont have a women's rugby event), and of course this encourages gigantism. First of all, MLB players were never allowed to play in the Olympics. They would've slaughtered even before doping became popular among the players. It's not a big deal in the US. The USA minor leaguers on the Olympic team suck. We're able to watch baseball just about all year round in the States. Hmmm....I just love it when I have to correct idiot thirteen year olds who play around on this site when not playing the XBox. Some of the US Olympians -- Baseball -- 1992-2000 -Benson Kris -Garciaparra Nomar -Giambi Jason -Glaus Troy -Koch Billy -Kotsay Mark -Jones Jacque -Looper Braden -Nevin Phil -Sheets Ben -Varitek Jason -Weaver Jeff And that's just from the three Olympic Teams.... http://www.usabaseball.com/sports....ni.html That's the full list right there.....Funny...most of those guys are in the Major Leagues.... So there goes that point.... What I will say about this....and this as a huge fan of the sport. Once Major League Baseball commits to using the best...not only will the sport be reinstated, but it will bring the same benefits that the Dream Team, and Olympic Hockey Tournament will bring. It will sell out....It will provide growth to the sport...And it will be a television event. The idea of this "World Cup of Baseball" during Spring Training is a joke. If they used the baseball tournament like hockey uses theirs, and basketball as well....The sport would be a long way away from the chopping block. Now personally, I think the IF was thinking..."If New York's the 2012 host...we'll start there with said tournament.....Now they have to hope for an American Host for 2016 to see that happen. Softball was no surprise....as it wouldn't have that same effect. Once MLB strikes up the same deal the NHL has with the IOC...they'll be back in buisness....And Major League Baseball is well aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuigiVercotti Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Rogge is weak, weak, weak in the IOC... No. It's not that he's weak. The majority of the IOC membership is still a bunch of spoiled rich bureaucrats who were appointed by the likes of the old autocrat Samaranch, and who ARE very resentful that Rogge is attempting to make him and the organization a more responsible and accountable organization. If anything, Rogge, should just dimiss the old fogeys there. Baron's said it right...the Wily Old Falangist's legacy lives on when it comes to the IOC membership, and considering that the vast majority of IOC members were appointed under Samaranch's stewardship, it will take a significant generational change under Jacques Rogge (or his successor) for organisational and political behaviours to change. hektor Posted on July 09 2005,06:05-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, he wanted Paris, he wanted new sports. We are far from that. They should as well take Juan Antonia Samaranch Jr. as IOC President. Um, where was there a statement that officially came from Rogge that (a) he wanted Paris for 2012 and ( he wanted new sports added to the programme? Care to provide a citation? Rogge was always diplomatic about the 2012 candidates, never showing anything more than studied enthusiasm for all bids. And as for new sports, aside from his personal enthusiasm for rugby which he never converted to some kind of presidential directive to his IOC underlings, he was again very careful in his observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Well that was a complete waste of time, The IRB, Squash, Karate and Golf Federations would probably be pretty pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuigiVercotti Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Frankly, whilst I think Baseball's loss is not worth any remonstration or sadness, softball's departure is a bit of a downer. The essential problem with baseball was that its appeal was limited to at best 5 nations, at worst 3. And in the case of one of those countries, i.e. the USA, the professional MLB players were too doped and too rich to even contemplate participating.Softball on the other hand hasn't had anywhere near the problems encouraging the best players in the world to particpate, and whilst its appeal is limited there has been some huge moments in the event's brief run in the games programme. Undoubtedly the USA Vs Australia games at Atlanta and Sydney stand out...remember the missed base plate and Peta Edabone hitting a home run bringing in 2 runs on the last pitch of the game from Lisa Fernandez in the 96 round robins? The problem always has been each event has needed purpose built stadia that generally will not support themselves outside of the games, and outside North America and Japan. So no one should be too surprised that they've gone... As for the other two sports, surely here's an opportunity for rugby 7s to come in for a men's tournament only, and forget adding a 28th sport? Or maybe there should have been a look at netball for the women. Unless the IOC can get an all female squash, karate, golf or roller sport event, the programme will be less gender-balanced (they wont have a women's rugby event), and of course this encourages gigantism. First of all, MLB players were never allowed to play in the Olympics. They would've slaughtered even before doping became popular among the players. It's not a big deal in the US. The USA minor leaguers on the Olympic team suck. We're able to watch baseball just about all year round in the States. Hmmm....I just love it when I have to correct idiot thirteen year olds who play around on this site when not playing the XBox. Some of the US Olympians -- Baseball -- 1992-2000 -Benson Kris -Garciaparra Nomar -Giambi Jason -Glaus Troy -Koch Billy -Kotsay Mark -Jones Jacque -Looper Braden -Nevin Phil -Sheets Ben -Varitek Jason -Weaver Jeff And that's just from the three Olympic Teams.... http://www.usabaseball.com/sports....ni.html That's the full list right there.....Funny...most of those guys are in the Major Leagues.... So there goes that point.... What I will say about this....and this as a huge fan of the sport. Once Major League Baseball commits to using the best...not only will the sport be reinstated, but it will bring the same benefits that the Dream Team, and Olympic Hockey Tournament will bring. It will sell out....It will provide growth to the sport...And it will be a television event. The idea of this "World Cup of Baseball" during Spring Training is a joke. If they used the baseball tournament like hockey uses theirs, and basketball as well....The sport would be a long way away from the chopping block. Now personally, I think the IF was thinking..."If New York's the 2012 host...we'll start there with said tournament.....Now they have to hope for an American Host for 2016 to see that happen. Softball was no surprise....as it wouldn't have that same effect. Once MLB strikes up the same deal the NHL has with the IOC...they'll be back in buisness....And Major League Baseball is well aware of it. JD is correct; there never was a ban by the MLB on its players attending an Olympics..for example Dave Nielsen was able to represent Australia at the 2000 & 2004 Olympics in baseball even as he was playing Major Leagues. The biggest hurdles for baseball and the MLB with the Olympics have to be (a) its relationship with WADA and drug taking ( the position of franchise owners on their lead players and © the relative weakness of international baseball. Unlike basketball which has shown that a NBA-dominated USA team can lose, baseball would have the problem of the US dominating over Cuba, Japan, South Korea, Australia and Canada for years and years. Look at what happened in Athens with the token Greek team. Can any future Olympic host outside the likes of the US provide a serious level of participation and support for baseball? Of course not. Baseball is a sport that unlike ice hockey, unlike football, unlike basketball and unlike almost all other team sports at the Olympics, has no promise of making a more professional impact at the games, has little desire to meet the drug testing standards implemented by WADA, and has little international support. Let's not forget folks...the World's Series isn't called that because it's a world championship...it's called that because the original sponsorship for the finals came from a newspaper called 'The World'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDPinstripes Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 I thought Neilson took a year off to play on those Olympic Teams... That being said, I think your totally wrong on the dream tournament being US Dominated.... If the NHL Format was in play..the one which grants automatic bids to six countries...(US, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Ch. Rep.) it could work, and work very well. Twelve Team Tourney would work like this... Group A -USA -Australia -Canada -Puerto Rico -Japan -Korea Group B -Dominican Rep. -Venezuela -Panama -Italy -Netherlands / Antillies Islands -Cuba Now granted...the concept is..when that Tourney got down to eight, or even four teams that the six automatic teams would make up the field...but in baseball, a single elimination tourney is only as good as the starting pitcher you have on the mound. It would be very interesting.....The Domincans could throw out Pedro, Cuba has Livan Hernandez, the Americans with Clemens...Japan will have Ichiro hitting leadoff....etc. etc. etc. Panama with Mariano Rivera would be an eight inning game.... It would really be a great tourney The other way to do it would be an eight or ten team double elimination tourney.....like the College World Series is done. But it would work......It really does need the right venue to be perfect...Like the New Yankee Stadium in 2016. Though I'd love to see it in Baseball's Chapel - Fenway Park... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatsnotmypuppy Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Well if there are no replacement sports, this whole vote was what Rogge tried to have happen in Mexico City - just straight dropping of sports. What a retarded move! I guess they have 7 years now to be lobbied by sports wanting in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuigiVercotti Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 I thought Neilson took a year off to play on those Olympic Teams...That being said, I think your totally wrong on the dream tournament being US Dominated.... If the NHL Format was in play..the one which grants automatic bids to six countries...(US, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Ch. Rep.) it could work, and work very well. Twelve Team Tourney would work like this... Group A -USA -Australia -Canada -Puerto Rico -Japan -Korea Group B -Dominican Rep. -Venezuela -Panama -Italy -Netherlands / Antillies Islands -Cuba Now granted...the concept is..when that Tourney got down to eight, or even four teams that the six automatic teams would make up the field...but in baseball, a single elimination tourney is only as good as the starting pitcher you have on the mound. It would be very interesting.....The Domincans could throw out Pedro, Cuba has Livan Hernandez, the Americans with Clemens...Japan will have Ichiro hitting leadoff....etc. etc. etc. Panama with Mariano Rivera would be an eight inning game.... It would really be a great tourney The other way to do it would be an eight or ten team double elimination tourney.....like the College World Series is done. But it would work......It really does need the right venue to be perfect...Like the New Yankee Stadium in 2016. Though I'd love to see it in Baseball's Chapel - Fenway Park... JD, I'll admit I don't know everything about baseball, and yes, a dream tournament may be worthwhile for baseball fans as a feauture of the Olympics. But, and here is the big but, unlike basketball which has a global culture of suppport and interest, or ice hockey which has a strong support base of many nations within the context of the smaller winter sports framework, baseball is a major sport in essentially North/Central America and East Asia, and that's it. The IOC may feel that baseball will add to the SOG programme if and when the games return to those areas, but it can't guarantee that nor can it guarantee that the MLB will support such a dream tournament. Let's face it, would the IOC want to have baseball in the programme considering that the US couldn't even dispatch a strong enough team to qualify for the Athens games? And how can the IOC encourage the return of a sport to the Olympic programme, which has been at the MLB level , riddled with blatant drug use and a tacit celebration of that policy from owners and fans alike. MLB doesn't need the Olympics to vaildate itself, nor does the IOC need baseball to validate the games. If and when baseball becomes more ingrained in global popular culture like basketball, and it tackles steroid use seriously, then it may merit a return. Until then, let the divorce stay in effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuigiVercotti Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Some more details and opinions from the IOC on the changes for 2012: Olympic program culled as softball and baseball struck outBy Jacquelin Magnay in Singapore July 9, 2005 Women's sport was given a huge jolt when the International Olympic Committee voted off the sole women's-only team sport on the Olympic program, softball, in addition to its cousin, baseball. The decision by the 116 committee members - of whom only 10 are women - was to allow two new sports to be included in the 28-sport Olympic program. However, in a vote yesterday, IOC members failed to give enough support to any of the potential replacements. "The Olympic program in 2012 will have 26 sports," said the president of the IOC, Jacques Rogge. Dr Rogge had wanted rugby sevens to be included, but in a series of complicated votes it, as well as golf and roller sports, was beaten by karate and squash. But those two sports then failed to get the two-thirds majority vote required to be admitted to the program. The changes will take effect at the Games in London in 2012. The Australian softball team won medals at the past three Olympics - bronze in Atlanta and Sydney and silver in Athens - while the Australian baseball team also picked up silver in Athens. Australian softballers can blame recent drug problems in American baseball for their elimination from the Olympics. "There is probably the inference that softball is counted together with baseball," said Denis Oswald, of the Association of Summer International Sports Federations. The failure to replace softball and baseball was viewed as a backlash against a woman's sport being culled, a protest vote against Dr Rogge and the emergence of a new bloc of votes - the 31 international sports federation executives. The president of the Australian Olympic Committee, John Coates, said many voters abstained. "A lot of voters are involved in the sports themselves and if there are two less sports on the program it may offer some room for them to expand." A US member, Anita de Frantz, said some members were appalled the only female team sport - softball - had been culled. She said sevens' failure to get in was because it didn't offer a female game for the Olympics. "My colleagues made a statement," she said. Australia's IOC members, Mr Coates, Kevan Gosper and Phil Coles, said they had voted for rugby sevens. So, for all the talk of baseball having or not having the best players available at the games, it looks as if drug problems in the US MLB have done it in for 2012, and unfortunately softball couldn't disassociate itself from baseball nor promote itself as a women's sport amongst a male dominated IOC membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Well it's unfortunate that the result was not 52-52, we would have had a demonstration of what Rogge was wanting. But when you saw his face after the vote you could have a hint... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 I understand that there is two sports less, but the idea is to keep the same number of medal events (301). This leaves room for four new events... any idea ? Bike trial ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ryan04 Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 well it what Rogge wants a smaller games, i still think it is the OLYMPICS the biggest event in the world, add a few more sports, keep what you got but add so more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 I understand that there is two sports less, but the idea is to keep the same number of medal events (301).This leaves room for four new events... any idea ? Bike trial ? actually it will leave 2, since baseball and softball combine for 6 medals equaling 2 medal events softball was not the only female team sport, it was just the only female team sport that mattered to Australia, there is still the matter of team syncro, which is by name a team sport second softball should come in as a sport with men and women, it is widely played by both men and women, just like baseball is widely played by women, at least in north america second, is there really no international female rugby? thats a bit of a shock since there is female rugby all over the place were i am baseball has no respect, its considered, boring, dull and the illigetamite(sp) child of cricket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Baseball and softball don't really register on our radar, so I can't say I'm particularly bothered about it. It will certainly save London a few million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinite_Olympics Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 This royally stinks! I loved softball during the Athens games. I woke up at 4 am to watch almost every game live on CNBC and MSNBC and cheered on the final on USA at about 9 AM. And, baseball is one of my favorite spectator sports too. This HAS to be a backlash against the US, and I feel that some anti-American sentiment was involved here. Perhaps some sexism too, considering that softball is one of the few women-only sports? And, then, all the big deal about replacing sports and none join in. Is that feeble or what?!? At least Baseball and Softball will be in Beijing, and I'll be sure to watch every game aired of both sports on the networks of NBC. And, at least, the sports weren't COMPLETELY culled, just temporarlily eliminated. Still, I'm planning on going to London 2012, and I definately wanted to see the US softball team at least once. But, there's always the chance of another vote. Time for the USOC to start putting the pressure on the IOC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 This is a bloody outrage! They kill two sports and they don't add in two more into the program..........the IOC is truly corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 well as a news reporter said the other day "The IOC answers to no one"....so I guess they can do really whatever they please.....no matter how pointless and stupid it is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 the IOC should have put in at least one new event, this is stupid, i was more than happy about this when it was considered that a sport would replace and dropped sport, but now, not so sure, though still happy baseball and softball are out, pointless sports that only bring embrassment to most of the hosts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDPinstripes Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 This royally stinks!I loved softball during the Athens games. I woke up at 4 am to watch almost every game live on CNBC and MSNBC and cheered on the final on USA at about 9 AM. And, baseball is one of my favorite spectator sports too. This HAS to be a backlash against the US, and I feel that some anti-American sentiment was involved here. Perhaps some sexism too, considering that softball is one of the few women-only sports? And, then, all the big deal about replacing sports and none join in. Is that feeble or what?!? At least Baseball and Softball will be in Beijing, and I'll be sure to watch every game aired of both sports on the networks of NBC. And, at least, the sports weren't COMPLETELY culled, just temporarlily eliminated. Still, I'm planning on going to London 2012, and I definately wanted to see the US softball team at least once. But, there's always the chance of another vote. Time for the USOC to start putting the pressure on the IOC! I don't think it's a backlash....and I call most of you all Anti-American Terrorist Helpers The fact is, only like 6 people showed up for the baseball and softball last year......The softball is completely dominated by one team.... It makes no sense for Cities to spend that much on Stadia with no Post Games legacy...not to mention you don't have the best ballplayers over there anyways. Once the best play....Baseball comes back, and Softball too...you know the male/female thing. Especially now since I believe you can't have one without the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hachiko Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 ... [sarcasm] Well one thing's for sure....the USA is still the best Olympic rugby nation in the world. Since 1920, you MoFo's! Hahahahahahah!!! [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micheal_warren Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 ...[sarcasm] Well one thing's for sure....the USA is still the best Olympic rugby nation in the world. Since 1920, you MoFo's! Hahahahahahah!!! [/sarcasm] hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eruedan Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 The ironic thing is that the IOC wants to keep the same amount of events....but karate and squash were the top sports considered....for squash you have at 4 events (men's and women's singles and doubles) and you have multiple karate weight divisions. This should be surprising, but i think I have come to learn that the IOC have half a brain between them. Now that there is 299 events....maybe the UCI will have a little talk to the IOC to let them bring back the 500m and 1000m sprints in track cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 i would much rather have fewer sports and more events, bring back the team time trial in road cycling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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