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14 hours ago, A-Money1983 said:

Yes.. but it may conflict with WOG events people want to see, especially if they go live they will do this year and in 2008.

Somebody else could  broadcast that specific event. Or, whoever wanted to see the Olympics could just suck it up and watch it later. They could play the event directly after the Superbowl, or considering that it would be around 7PM EST and 9AM in Beijing the next day, they could wait for the live (rerun) the next day. It's not ideal, but if they are American, there really wouldn't be any economic justification to broadcast Finnish Olympic Ski Jumping over the Superbowl.

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On 2/4/2018 at 5:08 PM, A-Money1983 said:

Yes.. but it may conflict with WOG events people want to see, especially if they go live they will do this year and in 2008.

God forbid this. Beijing must change their entire schedule so that US fans can watch the Super Bowl and the Olympics without interference.

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In China the major concern is that the opening will be scheduled on the fourth day of Chinese New Year in 2022. Many shops and restaurants will be closed during the week-long Chinese New Year holiday.

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51 minutes ago, Pui from HK said:

In China the major concern is that the opening will be scheduled on the fourth day of Chinese New Year in 2022. Many shops and restaurants will be closed during the week-long Chinese New Year holiday.

I wonder why they picked these dates then. Maybe it will encourage people to come to events when shops and restaurants are closed, since nothing else will be open.

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Speaking of which, this fact has led to some theories one of the main themes of the Opening could be typical Chinese New Year celebrations.

There was even this logo proposal on Behance about a Lunar new year themed logo

KM1Ogu4.jpg

71oz3FD.jpg 

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2022 CNY will be on the 1st of February with the Opening Ceremony in the 80,000 seat Birds Nest to be held on Day 4 of CNY. It's an auspicious day with families worshipping gods 

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https://youtu.be/K5RJBInCI1M

 

Beijing 2022 published this two days ago, obviously preparing for the large influx of online searches they were likely to get once the Closing Ceremony of Pyeongchang happened and the focus turned to Beijing. Many of the venues in the video look much more futuristic (and expensive) than the initial bid proposal videos and photos, which is somewhat concerning. I hope these modern designs aren't breaking the budget. 

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On 25.2.2018 at 8:11 PM, anthonyliberatori said:

https://youtu.be/K5RJBInCI1M

 

Beijing 2022 published this two days ago, obviously preparing for the large influx of online searches they were likely to get once the Closing Ceremony of Pyeongchang happened and the focus turned to Beijing. Many of the venues in the video look much more futuristic (and expensive) than the initial bid proposal videos and photos, which is somewhat concerning. I hope these modern designs aren't breaking the budget. 

the Ski-Jumping Venue looks stunning 

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On 2/25/2018 at 11:11 AM, anthonyliberatori said:

https://youtu.be/K5RJBInCI1M

 

Beijing 2022 published this two days ago, obviously preparing for the large influx of online searches they were likely to get once the Closing Ceremony of Pyeongchang happened and the focus turned to Beijing. Many of the venues in the video look much more futuristic (and expensive) than the initial bid proposal videos and photos, which is somewhat concerning. I hope these modern designs aren't breaking the budget. 

One thing you should know about China is that they don't care about how expensive. They're not under any obligation to save budget like Europe or other countries. If you spend too much in those countries, people will protest, and law, and regulations, all sort of things will happen to prevent overspending. In China, the government has ultimate power and they can spend however they want and many of their people are okay with that because they want to be proud about their country. The bottom line is they would spend any amount just to make sure the games is at its best. They built Terminal 3 of their international airport around 2008. Now they're building another one which is way bigger. So issues may arise but money is certainly not the problem.

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17 hours ago, nowuniverse said:

One thing you should know about China is that they don't care about how expensive. They're not under any obligation to save budget like Europe or other countries. If you spend too much in those countries, people will protest, and law, and regulations, all sort of things will happen to prevent overspending. In China, the government has ultimate power and they can spend however they want and many of their people are okay with that because they want to be proud about their country. The bottom line is they would spend any amount just to make sure the games is at its best. They built Terminal 3 of their international airport around 2008. Now they're building another one which is way bigger. So issues may arise but money is certainly not the problem.

No, I do understand this, I have spent a lot of time in China. But for the future of sustaining WOG bids, it is crucial that China remains on a budget and doesn't try to top the $30B USD 2008 Games, because if they do, no Western city will want to host the Winter Games. China originally proposed under $4B USD. If they are successful with staying around there, they will cut Pyeongchang's price in half, and start to erase Sochi's terrible economic legacy, which will be crucial in determining the future of the Winter Olympics. So, yes, China getting futuristic and expensive is rather concerning. Although the fate of 2026 will already be sealed in 2022, we must remember Demver 1976 and the countless bids pulled by referendum. If Beijing goes crazy with 2022, I wouldn't put it past a Calgary or Sion 2026 bid to pull themselves out through referendum, even after being awarded the Games next year.

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China has always loved to overkill stuff. They built a city in the middle of nowhere (Ordos) at Inner Mongolia. Now that city is pretty much a ghost town, with less than the projected people actually living there. They even built a 80.000 stadium there which will probably be abandoned as well.When you remember these facts you can see why many of us were really worried when Beijing was picked to host 2022. We loved the grandioseness of 2008, but today's not the right time to overspend, specially now that the Olympics came under lots of fire thanks to Sochi and Rio. 

I seriously hope they keep their promise of staying under $4B, but if we learned something of recent Olympics is that the proposed budget always ends up getting duplicated one way or another. 

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13 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

China has always loved to overkill stuff. They built a city in the middle of nowhere (Ordos) at Inner Mongolia. Now that city is pretty much a ghost town, with less than the projected people actually living there. They even built a 80.000 stadium there which will probably be abandoned as well.When you remember these facts you can see why many of us were really worried when Beijing was picked to host 2022. We loved the grandioseness of 2008, but today's not the right time to overspend, specially now that the Olympics came under lots of fire thanks to Sochi and Rio. 

I seriously hope they keep their promise of staying under $4B, but if we learned something of recent Olympics is that the proposed budget always ends up getting duplicated one way or another. 

It's not like PRC or IOC will care about it.. PRC has always known as the "Miracle Worker" for the IOC from what I've seen from 2008, YOG 2014 and now 2022. It felts like a less risky choice compared to Almaty due to how cooperative the IOC and PRC for all these years.. I know that for most of us IOC did it wrong at KL2015 but for these reasons, I knew from the get-go that Beijing will win 2022 easily..

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ordos stadiums!

ordos_sports_center_stadium01.jpg

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Sports-OrdosStadium-China.gif

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Chinese chump change

 

 

 

Edited by paul

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3 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

No, I do understand this, I have spent a lot of time in China. But for the future of sustaining WOG bids, it is crucial that China remains on a budget and doesn't try to top the $30B USD 2008 Games, because if they do, no Western city will want to host the Winter Games. China originally proposed under $4B USD. If they are successful with staying around there, they will cut Pyeongchang's price in half, and start to erase Sochi's terrible economic legacy, which will be crucial in determining the future of the Winter Olympics. So, yes, China getting futuristic and expensive is rather concerning. Although the fate of 2026 will already be sealed in 2022, we must remember Demver 1976 and the countless bids pulled by referendum. If Beijing goes crazy with 2022, I wouldn't put it past a Calgary or Sion 2026 bid to pull themselves out through referendum, even after being awarded the Games next year.

I'm not saying they should overspend. I just stated to you the fact that they tend to overspend and have no problem overspending whether it has something to do with Olympics or something else. It's not like they're going to care who will host the next Winter Games after them based on how much they would spend.  

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2 hours ago, zigzag said:

It's not like PRC or IOC will care about it.. PRC has always known as the "Miracle Worker" for the IOC from what I've seen from 2008, YOG 2014 and now 2022. It felts like a less risky choice compared to Almaty due to how cooperative the IOC and PRC for all these years.. I know that for most of us IOC did it wrong at KL2015 but for these reasons, I knew from the get-go that Beijing will win 2022 easily..

I know. China & other Asian countries have created the reputation of hosting the Olympics well. And China is certainly the best candidate when it comes to investing on infrastructures and venues. That's what an organization really loves when passing the hosting right to a country. Even without Olympics, they will keep spawning all sort of constructions here and there for all sort of purposes whether it seems reasonable or wasteful to many and they won't stop. One should remember hosting Olympics these days is not just about sports anymore. It's also about promoting host's image to the world and China always wants to be the best of the best in that case. That's why I don't think they would stop with just $4B. That doesn't mean every games has to be that expensive. It still depends on the country and its ability to invest. No one said the host country needs a lot of billions of dollars to be qualified. In fact, London, Rio, or South Korea had relatively lower budget than what Beijing had and they still hosted it well. The idea here is if the country is willing and can afford to spend as much to fulfill their Olympics vision and promote their country so then let them. It's not our money to judge. I can't tell them to spend less just because other counties would be embarrassed and pressurized to do the same. The future hosts don't have to spend that much to beat China. They just need to spend whatever amount they need to host a successful games. Simple as that....

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On March 2, 2018 at 1:30 AM, nowuniverse said:

I'm not saying they should overspend. I just stated to you the fact that they tend to overspend and have no problem overspending whether it has something to do with Olympics or something else. It's not like they're going to care who will host the next Winter Games after them based on how much they would spend.  

Which is why I hope the IOC keeps them on a leash. If Beijing turns out to be another Sochi, the Winter Olympics could very well be in danger if Calgary or Sion aren't elected for 2026 and another North American/European city elected 2030. Large, flashy, expensive, and single use venues are what we need to get away from, not encourage. Remember, Sochi did make a profit on their Games. Hosting 2014 did wonders on giving the already popular tourist area a new airport, new hotels, better infrastructure/transportation, and a ski resort so the area could be popular yearround. As a host, Sochi had a mostly positive legacy. But for the Olympic movement as a whole, it was completely detrimental. China using this opportunity to grow Winter Sports in its country and show those in countries with rising economies in Southeast Asia that China is the place to go for a winter vacation is great, but if they end up becoming another Sochi, the Games could be in trouble. I'm really hoping the IOC does all in their power to make sure Beijing keeps a close budget, as there is no real need to pass Pyeongchang and God forbid Sochi in spending. Most venues already exist. Plus, they already proved themselves to the world with an Olympics in 2008. 

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14 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

Which is why I hope the IOC keeps them on a leash. If Beijing turns out to be another Sochi, the Winter Olympics could very well be in danger if Calgary or Sion aren't elected for 2026 and another North American/European city elected 2030. Large, flashy, expensive, and single use venues are what we need to get away from, not encourage. Remember, Sochi did make a profit on their Games. Hosting 2014 did wonders on giving the already popular tourist area a new airport, new hotels, better infrastructure/transportation, and a ski resort so the area could be popular yearround. As a host, Sochi had a mostly positive legacy. But for the Olympic movement as a whole, it was completely detrimental. China using this opportunity to grow Winter Sports in its country and show those in countries with rising economies in Southeast Asia that China is the place to go for a winter vacation is great, but if they end up becoming another Sochi, the Games could be in trouble. I'm really hoping the IOC does all in their power to make sure Beijing keeps a close budget, as there is no real need to pass Pyeongchang and God forbid Sochi in spending. Most venues already exist. Plus, they already proved themselves to the world with an Olympics in 2008. 

When the facilities for winter sports are not available, they need to build it new. There's no other way to do it. Yet, several facilities from the summer games are also planned to be re-purposed for winter games so I don't think they throw money to build everything new just for the sake of it. However, as the second economy of the world with over 1.3 billion people, it's such a hard task to go under budget or being modest to address concern of some people. That's not how China wants to be perceived and people have no power to question or affect them on how much they would spend. If China really worries about budget, they wouldn't consider hosting another Olympics. If IOC really cares about legacy and such things, China shouldn't be on their list. The thing is they don't care. They just want to pick a country that can host the games well. Hosting a game is the desire, right, and the responsibility of that particular country alone. It has little to do with previous or future hosts. Future hosts are under no pressure of going over budget just because of China. They need to figure out the solution that works for them if they want to host it there. It's not China's responsibility to take care of them. I only have problem with China if they keep bidding for every single game now and then leaving no chance for other countries to host but that's the problem here. I know they proved to the world in 2008. But that's Summer Olympics. This is Winter Olympics. It's a different thing for them. They wouldn't just host a second Olympics that's the same in nature. They wanted to show they can do the best with a Summer Games. And they want to do the same with a Winter Games as well. That's the reason. If it was another Summer Games, they wouldn't host it again, at least not anytime soon.

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Not sure where to put this post, but here it is.   I don't know if any of you have been following the political news from China, but one of the most important items of international news may be forthcoming.  The National Party Congress that's just started is about to dismantle the presidential term limits that were put into China's constitution after the nightmare of the Mao era ended, specifically to combat the dictatorship syndrome.  Since that time, China's political leadership changes every 10 years and was vested in a consensus-making group. Not a free system to be sure, but with its own version of internal checks and balances so no one person could run away with all the power.    That is about to change--the current president, Xi Jinping, has  requested (demanded) that term limits be abolished and that he become "President for Life."  He has spent the last 5 years ruthlessly dispensing with enemies and amassing power in a way not seen for a long time in China.  He has tried--with incomplete success but still in progress--to develop a cult of personality a la Mao.   While the "vote" hasn't yet been taken, barring something completely unforeseen, it will happen since few are left who will challenge him.  This will set him up to be a defacto dictator hearkening back to the Mao days, or equally accurately, the Stalin days.  

Why does this matter?  Well, it has profound effects on the general international stage both politically and economically, things that will affect most countries in the world in some form or fashion.   I first lived in China (although not that long) in the post-Mao Deng Xiaoping era, where China was poor, backwards, ignorant, but hopeful that things would get better.  Tiananmen Square 1989 put a huge hiccup in that for awhile.   Then returned to China during the Jiang Zemin era--probably the "golden age" when things were noticeably less repressive, economy like gangbusters, lots of risen expectations politically as well (most of which didn't happen), but generally very positive.  This is the period where China was awarded the 2008 Games.  Then on to the Hu Jintao era, where a more conservative leadership rolled back some of the progress and increased certain aspects of social control, but still not too bad.   Then the Xi Jinping era started, though mild at the beginning there were definite signs that things were going to get bad, and they have.  (I left full time residency in China at this time, partly because of this).  Anti-foreigner mentality, social and political repression, outside internet access, etc all have become much worse.   Xi is a seriously nasty character even by Chinese standards, possibly even by Putin standards... and about to get full license to get even nastier.   

As often-opined on this website, the IOC got stuck with two flawed choices for 2022 WOG selection, and made what at the time seemed like the least-bad of the two.   I'm sure the venue production, logistics, etc will be taken care of in the normally successful Chinese way, but whether this will be the sort of games that anybody outside China will want to attend....I don't know.   As with 2008 and the extreme security and control measures put into place for that entire summer, I wouldn't expect much "Olympic spirit," atmosphere, joie-de-vivre, whatever during the Games.    But before that, I would expect China to experience increasing unrest of the sort that could make international headlines.   China is a big place with lots of people, and not all of them are on board with Xi as a person, as a leader, nor with the idea of going back to a dictatorship or Emperor mentality.   Xi Jinping has a disadvantage that Mao didn't have:  having to deal with modern technology and communications and the peoples' ability to do an end run around state apparatus.  Even in China, control is not complete and state efforts leak like a sieve.   

Hang on, this could be a bumpy next few years.  

 

 

 

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/\/\  Great post, jie-jie.  We don't get too many posts of that calibre here on FB, where if you happen to make one unintended mistake in your post, you are jumped upon by vulgar Canadian and other posters as if you intentionally poked a hole in the Mona Lisa.   And the admin of this website does not sanction such virulent and provocative posters, such that the quality of the website as a whole has just dropped.  But perhaps with bidding cities dropping like flies, Gamesbids is destined for early extinction anyway. 

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Well, the fundamental premise of my post is that what is happening in China politically now, WILL impact the 2022 Olympics in some way, beyond just getting the new facilities and the infrastructure built.   Regardless of what any of us on an internet board writes, or any moderators accept/don't accept....regardless of what the IOC or anybody else thinks--this China train is now rolling down a track to a place that is potentially darker than we dared think several years ago.

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What could I expect for a tiny little man so insecure he gets buttmad about comparisons with a cartoon character to the point they banned them on the internet (as well for any tiny little term in Google which could imply criticism to his quest on ending unlimited terms). Even friggin George Orwell was banned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/world/asia/china-censorship-xi-jinping.html

533-0717155843-96970659abexi.jpg

Just another reason why I will always keep thinking PRC is the most hypocrite government in the world and why that handover about China being so openminded and an Utopia is a huge friggin lie. Then again, it's not like the IOC had other alternative back in 2015. 

This is going to be so fun. 

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Welp. Long Live the King....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43361276

Quote

China's Xi allowed to remain 'president for life' as term limits removed

China has approved the removal of term limits for its leader, in a move that effectively allows Xi Jinping to remain as president for life.

The constitutional changes were passed by China's annual sitting of the National People's Congress on Sunday.

The vote was widely regarded as a rubber-stamping exercise. Two delegates voted against the change and three abstained, out of 2,964 votes.

China had imposed a two-term limit on its president since the 1990s.

But Mr Xi, who would have been due to step down in 2023, defied the tradition of presenting a potential successor during October's Communist Party Congress.

Instead, he consolidated his political power as the party voted to enshrine his name and political ideology in the party's constitution - elevating his status to the level of its founder, Chairman Mao.

On paper, the congress is the most powerful legislative body in China - similar to the parliament in other nations. But it was widely believed that it would approve what it was told to.

Xi forever?

Analysis by Stephen McDonell, BBC China correspondent in Beijing

It is now hard to see Xi Jinping being challenged in any way whatsoever.

He has amassed power the likes of which has not been seen since Chairman Mao Zedong.

Only five years ago Beijing was being ruled by a collective leadership. Under ex-President Hu Jintao you could imagine differing views being expressed in the then nine-member Politburo Standing Committee.

There was a feeling that Mr Hu needed to please various factions within the Communist Party and it seemed that every 10 years a new leader would come along with their own people in a process of smooth transition.

From today all this has gone.

The constitution has been altered to allow Xi Jinping to remain as president beyond two terms and they would not have gone to this much trouble if that was not exactly what he intended to do.

There has been no national debate as to whether a leader should be allowed to stay on for as long as they choose. Quietly but surely Xi Jinping has changed the way his country is governed, with himself well and truly at the core.

Rare dissent

The issue is not, however, without controversy.

Online censors in China have been blocking discussion around the topic, including images of Winnie the Pooh. Social media users have taken to using the cartoon character to represent Mr Xi.

One government critic described the proposal in an open letter last month as a "farce", in a rare show of public dissent.

Former state newspaper editor Li Datong wrote that scrapping term limits for the president and vice-president would sow the seeds of chaos - in a message sent to some members of the national congress.

"I couldn't bear it any more. I was discussing with my friends and we were enraged. We have to voice our opposition," he told BBC Chinese.

State media, however, have portrayed the changes as much-needed reform.

US President Donald Trump was criticised by some commentators for seeming to approve of Mr Xi's unlimited rule, saying on Monday: "President for life... I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

At a political rally on Saturday, Mr Trump insisted he had merely been joking during a fundraiser, and that his comments were represented unfairly by some media.

Xi Jinping thought

Mr Xi's possible third term is not the only item the National People's Congress is likely to approve. It was also expected to:

  • confirm China's new government line-up for the next five years, kicking off Xi Jinping's second term as president
  • ratify a law to set up a new powerful anti-corruption agency
  • ratify the inclusion of the president's political philosophy - "Xi Jinping thought" - in the constitution

Xi Jinping thought is the ideology approved by the Communist Party last October. Officially, it is "Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for the New Era".

Schoolchildren, college students and staff at state factories will have to study the political ideology, which the Communist Party is trying to portray as a new chapter for modern China.

 

One government critic described the proposal in an open letter last month as a "farce", in a rare show of public dissent.

Former state newspaper editor Li Datong wrote that scrapping term limits for the president and vice-president would sow the seeds of chaos - in a message sent to some members of the national congress.

"I couldn't bear it any more. I was discussing with my friends and we were enraged. We have to voice our opposition," he told BBC Chinese.

State media, however, have portrayed the changes as much-needed reform.

US President Donald Trump was criticised by some commentators for seeming to approve of Mr Xi's unlimited rule, saying on Monday: "President for life... I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

At a political rally on Saturday, Mr Trump insisted he had merely been joking during a fundraiser, and that his comments were represented unfairly by some media.

Xi Jinping thought

Mr Xi's possible third term is not the only item the National People's Congress is likely to approve. It was also expected to:

  • confirm China's new government line-up for the next five years, kicking off Xi Jinping's second term as president
  • ratify a law to set up a new powerful anti-corruption agency
  • ratify the inclusion of the president's political philosophy - "Xi Jinping thought" - in the constitution

Xi Jinping thought is the ideology approved by the Communist Party last October. Officially, it is "Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for the New Era".

Schoolchildren, college students and staff at state factories will have to study the political ideology, which the Communist Party is trying to portray as a new chapter for modern China.

 

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Now that PC is over, we should really change the subforum icon now. Also we should move Paris 2024 to the Olympic Games category.

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China News 中国新闻网
@Echinanews
Beijing released the construction plan for Winter Olympics venues and facilities on Thursday. Pictures show artist rendering of the National Winter Games Training Stadium, the Big Air and the National Sliding Centre.

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DehV_E0XUAEmtZV.jpg

DehV_FHWkAIYQ7c.jpg

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