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Could Annecy have won?


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So we have all hypothesized that anyone BUT Beijing/Almaty would have won the 2022 Games if they made it to the end (bar maybe Lviv) - but how would some of the more... "second tier" bids have done?  In particular would Annecy or maybe a Sofia bid have won through if they stayed in the race?  Jaca?  Poprad Tatry? Graz? Aosta?

Would the IOC really have jumped at any other option bar Beijing and Almaty?  I personally am not convinced as while the Beijing bid was frankly dull - it was solid.  Almaty had a workable plan but I feel that the cost politically was too high for the IOC.

Nonetheless - did the French really miss out on a golden chance for yet another Winter Games or was their decision to aim for 2024 the right move? Should Sarajevo maybe put their hand up?

Thoughts?

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I'll declare my bias first - Personally, Beijing 2022 was the most disappointing decision the IOC has ever made. For my preferences, there's nothing to like about it. I also think Almaty would have made a better, more desirable and fitting host. For me, Almaty was not as unpalatable an option as it seems to have been for others.

And remember, for all the notion that Beijing might have been dull (I'd say worse than dull, but I'll run with that) and Almaty too costly a political risk, Almaty came within a whisker of getting the vote over Beijing. And that was on a bid where visits to the bidders was barred. I know GBMod's made the case for it, and I tend to agree, that if visits were still on the agenda, the result might have gone the other way.

Geopolitically, I do believe that a competent bid from Europe, or elsewhere outside Asia (which leaves North America really) would have had the wood on Beijing. I had great hopes for Krakow when it was the last European standing - it would've been a nice host - but the forces that are hobbling the IOC's efforts to repair the reputation of the gams put paid to that. It goes without saying Oslo or Munich could have aced it. Stockholm or Annecy? Okay, both have got some weaknesses, but are they really all that bad? Are their weaknesses any greater magnitude than the compromises the IOC is having to accept with Beijing? I believe that against the final 2022 field, either could have won against smog city.

The others you mention? Sarajevo - maybe they're better off now than I guess, but I can't imagine them being inn a state to host anything at present. Jaca (or Barcelona?) - hmmmm, interesting thought. I dunno, I guess they could have. Sofia? Why not, if they got serious and put together a competent bid. The others - again, it really would depend on the end how competent a bid they would have mounted.

Edited by Sir Rols
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On 1/11/2017 at 7:37 AM, neige said:

A french city has no chance to get winter games as long as Paris doesn't get the summer games first...And then , they'll have to wait for at least 10 years!

So not before 2034!

Rubbish.

If the French NOC put forward a winter candidate and there are few other options I hate to piss on Paris' plans - they will get a Winter Games again.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 13/1/2017 at 1:02 AM, LatinXTC said:

If an Annecy bid was put forth with Lyon being the official host city, it would definitely have won over Beijing and Almaty. Lyon is a large city with plenty of venues already perfect to host the indoor events, and the ski resorts are already prepared to host winter games events. 

Lyon is too far from alps... Never Lyon will bid to WoG. Maybe Grenoble will try again, but I can't imagine actually. 


We won't have a new bid from Annecy even in 2030 or 40... Since Sotchi WoG and with Peyongchang 2018 and Bejing 2022, WoG are become too fake et too different from the original spirit. IOC make the wrong choices and ask to much, it's too expensive... It's the reason why nobody wants WoG in Europe now. 

 

Moreover we have serious problem with air contamination in the Alps, it's a big issue for the next generation and WoG are incompatible with this issue. :(

Now we have new winter concept in Europe (Smaller Events but more in the Alpin Spirit and more popular than Wog) and honestly I thing the majority of people doesn't want a new winter bid in Annecy or French Alps. 

 

moreover WoG are less popular than in 20 century... Thank you IOC, you killed WoG. 

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On 10/1/2017 at 5:07 PM, neige said:

A french city has no chance to get winter games as long as Paris doesn't get the summer games first...And then , they'll have to wait for at least 10 years!

So not before 2034!

And yet they gave Albertville the WOG shortly after Paris lost. So I don't get why you reach this conclusion.

1 hour ago, Tulsa said:

Lyon is too far from alps... Never Lyon will bid to WoG. Maybe Grenoble will try again, but I can't imagine actually. 


We won't have a new bid from Annecy even in 2030 or 40... Since Sotchi WoG and with Peyongchang 2018 and Bejing 2022, WoG are become too fake et too different from the original spirit. IOC make the wrong choices and ask to much, it's too expensive... It's the reason why nobody wants WoG in Europe now. 

 

Moreover we have serious problem with air contamination in the Alps, it's a big issue for the next generation and WoG are incompatible with this issue. :(

Now we have new winter concept in Europe (Smaller Events but more in the Alpin Spirit and more popular than Wog) and honestly I thing the majority of people doesn't want a new winter bid in Annecy or French Alps. 

 

moreover WoG are less popular than in 20 century... Thank you IOC, you killed WoG. 

Agreed. Not mentioning people in some places of France are against the very concept of the Olympics. Annecy bid was doomed from the very start since almost literally nobody supported that project. 

The WOG died when the IOC sold themselves to Russia back then in 2007 (and still kind of do). Also Sochi ruined the Summer Games as well since it seems the trendy thing is to hate the Olympics these days thanks to all the gazillions they wasted. And while PC is not as bad so far, they're also spending tons of money tbh. 

I trust Sion wins the 2026 games and tries bringing back the reputation the WOG have lost so far. 

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To answer to the question : 

Annecy could win, if IOC accepts smaller and less expensive bid than the 3 lasts bids. Also if IOC changes some rules about accommodations : the ask very big hotel (for IOC family) and it doesn't exist in french alps. Last point :  if environment and legacy were really a serious issue to the final vote.  


Annecy is a great place for winter sports, better than Beijing, Sotchi or Peyongchang but IOC doesn't care about this kind of bid, they prefer expensive bids than bids build for the show or the sports. 

Annecy is over for the next 30 years minimum maybe forever. French Alpine Cities don't want bid now, the mind of people has changed about WoG. 

 

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On 2/12/2017 at 7:40 AM, Tulsa said:

Lyon is too far from alps... Never Lyon will bid to WoG. Maybe Grenoble will try again, but I can't imagine actually. 

 

Grenoble is closer to Lyon than Whistler was to Vancouver. With the modern two-hub Olympic model, *distance* in not a barrier to Lyon hosting.

As to the original question, any solid European bid would have won 2022. The question is what makes for a solid bid. Annacy? Yes. Jaca? Yes. But Sofia....

The only reason Almaty lost is that it's in Kazakhstan. From the IOC voter standpoint, is Bulgaria that much better than Kazakhstan?

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1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

Grenoble is closer to Lyon than Whistler was to Vancouver. With the modern two-hub Olympic model, *distance* in not a barrier to Lyon hosting.

As to the original question, any solid European bid would have won 2022. The question is what makes for a solid bid. Annacy? Yes. Jaca? Yes. But Sofia....

The only reason Almaty lost is that it's in Kazakhstan. From the IOC voter standpoint, is Bulgaria that much better than Kazakhstan?

Grenoble being closer to Lyon than Whistler to Vancouver is irrelevant though, as Grenoble is not a skiing restort like Whistler.

I guess Bulgaria is better for the IOC already by the mere fact that it is a) in Europe and they are by now desperate for Europe, and furthermore, it is also an EU country, which makes things probably a bit more stable than let's say Sarajevo/Bosnia or a bid from Georgia (the country).

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3 hours ago, zekekelso said:

Grenoble is closer to Lyon than Whistler was to Vancouver. With the modern two-hub Olympic model, *distance* in not a barrier to Lyon hosting.

I understand but for French people it couldn't be possible, for us WoG are associate with alpine cities and nobody will be for this kind of bid. We don't have the same conception of distance and winter location than some countries like USA, Canada or China. It's cultural I think. 

But with the new two-hub model, I think the best option, it will be a bid between France and Switzerland (Geneva/Chamonix). But maybe I'm too optimistic. :D

1 hour ago, StefanMUC said:

Grenoble being closer to Lyon than Whistler to Vancouver is irrelevant though, as Grenoble is not a skiing restort like Whistler.

That's right but Grenoble is very close to ski resort like Annecy, Albertville etc.

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6 hours ago, Tulsa said:

 Annecy could win, if IOC accepts smaller and less expensive bid than the 3 lasts bids. 

Annecy is a great place for winter sports, better than Beijing, Sochi or PyeongChang but IOC doesn't care about this kind of bid, they prefer expensive bids than bids build for the show or the sports.

Annecy would've won 2022 hands down, (but then we probably wouldn't have a Paris 2024 bid now if that was the case), had they been the last European winter bid standing against Beijing & Almaty. Beijing only won cuz Europe bailed on the 2022 race.

Why else do you think that the IOC was so pissed off & lashed out at Norway when Oslo (the last Euro bid left in the 2022 field) finally withdrew. 2018 was a different story - PyeongChang & Munich combined were too much for Annecy too handle alone.

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2 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

I guess Bulgaria is better for the IOC already by the mere fact that it is a) in Europe and they are by now desperate for Europe, and furthermore, it is also an EU country, which makes things probably a bit more stable than let's say Sarajevo/Bosnia or a bid from Georgia (the country).

Bulgaria is still not traditional Europe, though. But then again, if Krakow had not bailed on 2022, either, if probably would've won against Beijing.

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7 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I thought Krakow was the last Euro bid standing?

Krakow withdrew in late May 2014 (right after their failed referendum earlier that month. Then Oslo withdrew in early October 2014, leaving then only Beijing & Almaty to duel it out.

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