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1 minute ago, phandrosis said:

Even though I am not happy with the outcome, the people voted for authenticity. I am and many Americans are tired with both party's establishment, but only the Republicans nominated the person who followed through with that desire. We can only hope that between now and 2020 either the Democrats become less tied to corporate interests and "big tent" ideals or falls apart completely so that we can pose a truly progressive candidate.

While I see that you are no Trump supporter, I wonder where you recognise "authenticity" in Trump. I mean, this guy is a blatant liar and it is actually ridiculous that so many working class Americans deemed him "their champion" despite his incredible wealth and his long history as someone who actually cares a damn about the needs of the non-privileged people who worked for him and whom he dealt with in other regards. This is really one of the big bad miracles of this election.

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3 minutes ago, Olympian2004 said:

While I see that you are no Drumpf supporter, I wonder where you recognise "authenticity" in Drumpf. I mean, this guy is a blatant liar and it is actually ridiculous that so many working class Americans deemed him "their champion" despite his incredible wealth and his long history as someone who actually cares a damn about the needs of the non-privileged people who worked for him and whom he dealt with in other regards. This is really one of the big bad miracles of this election.

What I meant by authenticity was how he presented himself and his views to the people compared to establishment republicans like McCain, Romney, and even Pence.

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I wonder about the republican party responsability....

How such a big party can chose Donald Trump?

Is there not a set of ethical values that any canditate for the republicans should share?

For instance, can you be a republican candidate if you're clearly xenophobic?

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Well, neige, not the Republican Party itself chose Trump as their candidate (and least not predominantly), but the voters in the primaries. And as you can see, Trump has a strong movement behind him which carried him through the primaries and now to victory in the general election. Besides that, I'm puzzled as well how something like that could happen. But already the campaign showed that formerly impossible thing are now possible in America, and also around the world.

@phandrosis If you equal "bluntness" to "authenticity", you may be right. But in fact, Trump is one of the most unauthentic people one can imagine. He mainly says what his audience wants to hear, and he even takes that to new extremes. And therefore, I think that his voters fell victim to a great big misconception about the term "authenticity".

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47 minutes ago, LatinXTC said:

Goodbye LA2024, SLC/Denver2026, and USA2026.

I think that should be the least of our problems now.

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5 minutes ago, Olympian2004 said:

Well, neige, not the Republican Party itself chose Trump as their candidate (and least not predominantly), but the voters in the primaries. And as you can see, Trump has a strong movement behind him which carried him through the primaries and now to victory in the general election.

 

Yes I know that, but how could he be authorised to participate the republican primaries if he does not share a set of common values?

 

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51 minutes ago, phandrosis said:

What I meant by authenticity was how he presented himself and his views to the people compared to establishment republicans like McCain, Romney, and even Pence.

I too am perturbed by ascribing "authenticity" to Trump. More, to me, populism and demagoguery. An important difference. To me, that's what a political "establishment" - on both the liberal and conservative sides - is for. To stop dangerous demogaguery from taking hold. And despite the efforts of many responsible Republicans who did try and prevent it, ultimately so many of the party are guilty for failing to contain the genie now unleashed.

All I hope now is that those other organs of American democracy - the legislative and judicial branches - play their role over (hopefully only) the next four years to act as a check and balance to the forces that gave rise to tonight's result. Good luck America, I wish you well, but I grieve you're now in this situation.

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Quote

Canada's immigration website crashes as Trump's election lead grows

Data from Google suggests searches for ‘move to Canada’ spiked significantly during the night as Trump victories unfolded in key battleground states

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/09/canadas-immigration-website-crashes-as-donald-trumps-us-election-lead-grows

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10 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I too am perturbed by ascribing "authenticity" to Trump. More, to me, populism and demagoguery. An important difference. To me, that's what a political "establishment" - on both the liberal and conservative sides - is for. To stop dangerous demogaguery from taking hold. And despite the efforts of many responsible Republicans who did try and prevent it, ultimately so many of the party are guilty for failing to contain the genie now unleashed.

All I hope now is that those other organs of American democracy - the legislative and judicial branches - play their role over (hopefully only) the next four years to act as a check and balance to the forces that gave rise to tonight's result. Good luck America, I wish you well, but I grieve you're now in this situation.

The legislative branch is going to be interesting, seeing as the Republicans look to be in control of the House & Senate. If they feel the need to treat Trump the way they treated Obama, then American politics is going to get very strange.

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Grossly homophobic VP and a president who admits sexual assault. Well done USA. Feel proud

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19 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

The legislative branch is going to be interesting, seeing as the Republicans look to be in control of the House & Senate. If they feel the need to treat Trump the way they treated Obama, then American politics is going to get very strange.

Yes - it's going to be instructive to see how Paul Ryan now manages to work with Trump. I can't see that being an easy or close collaboration - assuming he keeps his Speaker job. I trust, or like to believe, that there's still a significant "establishment" rump left in the both houses.

Also talking about the pillars of American democracy - what about the press (or rather, I guess we have to say media these days). I'd give the US media a mixed bag on this election - on the one hand, yes, it was generally stridently anti-Trump through it. On the other hand, it was the media that gave him he air to become the phenomenon he was. 

There's just so much to be shocked and flummoxed over.

Edited by Sir Rols
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44 minutes ago, Rob. said:

Grossly homophobic VP and a president who admits sexual assault. Well done USA. Feel proud

Hey, half the country still tried to stop that. 

25 minutes ago, Frenchy said:

S'funny.

I thought the vote was rigged.

Waiting for your answer on that one Donald.....

:angry:

I know. Donald Duck always kept saying the campaign was "rigged", yet he was still running in such a rigged race. Go figure. More like "crooked" Donald.

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Trying to see the bright side.  Apparently California voted to legalise pot (actually, last time I was there I smelled so much on the street I can't see it'll make much difference). 

How'd the condoms in porn proposition go?*

* Okay, just checked. rejected. Jobs in the San Fernando Valley film industry are safe.

Edited by Sir Rols

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15 minutes ago, FYI said:

Hey, half the country still tried to stop that

Appreciate that :)

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It's that friggin "Electoral Vote" system.  Hillary won the popular vote, but the f*cking Electoral vote system prevails.  I don't know how long we (the US and the world, I guess) will be saddled with that outdated system!! 

Oh, and BTW, with Republican majorities in the Congress, the US Supreme COurt will have a decidedly conservative bent starting with Justice #9.  And FBI chairman James Comey will be safe in his job for at least the next 4 years.  Sigh.  

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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11 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I'm really trying to control myself from lashing out, but really you summed up all my fears.

To think, I was shaken by Brexit. But this???????

First Brexit now Trump!!!:angry:

What the hell is the matter with people??? :(

Politically, 2016 has to be the sh1ttiest year in memory and I speak as one who had to endure the Bush and Thatcher years!!!!:o

 

Never ever thought I would hear myself saying this but sometimes democracy can be a very overrated concept!!!! <_<

 

Edited by Mainad
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It doesn't feel any better having slept on it. This time yesterday I was actually quite optimistic America's best side would shine through.

Instead, America trolled the world big time. 

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11 hours ago, Frenchy said:

S'funny.

I thought the vote was rigged.

Waiting for your answer on that one Donald.....

:angry:

 

6 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

It's that friggin "Electoral Vote" system.  Hillary won the popular vote, but the f*cking Electoral vote system prevails.  I don't know how long we (the US and the world, I guess) will be saddled with that outdated system!!

So yes. The vote was indeed rigged.

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This morning it was Colbert expressing restrained anguish, then Hillary and Barack owing Trump an open mind and rooting for his success. The mood seems to be infectious:

 

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13 hours ago, Olympian2004 said:

Surprisingly, I'm not as shocked as after the Brexit referendum - although this result will have an even bigger impact on the world than the Brexit. I'm rather sobered and worried about the direction our planet takes. The UK chooses to leave the EU from which it profited strongly; Colombia decides against a peace treaty which would have ended decades of death, violence and suffering; the Philippines have elected a total nutjob president; Austria is set to elect a right-wing populist president; populists throughout the world are on the rise, and such is hate, intolerance, denial of facts and the popularity of conspiracy theories.

Combine this with the madness surrounding formerly inspiring sports events like the Olympics, and then you get a very worrying picture: Things which mankind drew inspiration from in the past count no more. Safeties and certainties do exist less and less.

Even if I strongly disagree with those who voted Trump, for the Brexit, against the Colombian peace treaty etc.: I think one has to take those voices more serious than ever before in order to find a way to combat those rising populist sentiments and movements. But that will be tough, especially since no one in the "rational camp" seems to have found a recipe against those sentiments and movements so far.

I guess we have to hope (even if that leads to worrying effects for the US and the world) that as soon as they have to govern, those irrational populist movements will prove to be what they are: phonies. Trump has promised amazingly much to voters who are already disillusioned, disappointed and angry. I'm pretty sure he will step on quite a lot of feet there as soon as he he won't deliver. But it's sad enough that one has to resort to such a hope in order to (somehow) "save the world".

I'm afraid after Trump victory a lot of people who kept their latent racism and resentment locked are going to lose fear and vote for their respective Trumps in their countries. Now i'm almost sure Le Pen is going to win in France. And in Germany Merkel might have her days counted since its no secret lots of germans are also falling for the "Inmigrants are the cause of all our issues" meme (though it looks it will be more difficult to happen here than in the former). 

As for the Colombian Peace treaty, you would understand it better if you lived here and saw the whole conflict. People in Colombia were scared. Not only they were going to forgive the people who made them suffer so much just like that, but also give them part of the Parliament and the potential of becoming rulers of the nation in the mid-term future. And after seeing the gigantic traiwreck which happened in Venezuela after we let the left get away with everything, they didn't wanted to end like us. In the end of the day, those referendum results were far from suprising. 

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More dismayed than shocked at the result...simply saw the potential coming a year ago.

Clinton is too elitist and hard core establishment. She really did have a sense of disconnect with average American worker.

Trump tapped into the downtrodden, more so after Sanders fell. Need to remember 70% of voters do not have a formal tertiary education. Many are two and three job minimum wage workers who probably lost their job for life during the GFC fallout or wondering why their parents 40year job for life no longer exists for them...Perfect fuel for a right of centre vote grab.

In the last days of the campaign, Clinton rolling out ultra left liberal multimillionaire Hollywood and Rock Stars eschewing the values of equality just came across as offensive to the week to week survivor in the "liberal globalization" world.

There is a trend to isolationism...Brexit anyone.

Well that's how I saw it.

 

Edited by Alexjc
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