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16 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

Let us remember that Simone probably quit because her team and herself would not be hearing The Star Spangled Banner in that arena:

She may have been going through a rough patch but whatever happened to the old saying which is true about life “winners never quit and quitters never win”

Instead in Orwellian fashion, the media is praising the exact opposite effect. You know as in “war is peace” and “ignorance is strength”. I guess then that “quitting is bravery”.

Many runners in say a track race know that they made a crucial mistake that will not allow them to win. As in missing a hurdle and taking a tumble, but in nearly all cases, they get back up and finish the race and audiences appreciate that.

Instead, Simone quitting is reminiscent of how Michael Johnson quit in that infamous 150m race at Toronto’s Skydome when he knew he couldn’t beat Donovan Bailey.

 

As for you in Australia, where would society be if quitting was deemed acceptable. I’m sure the veterans you acknowledge on ANZAC Day went through a heck of a lot worse, and they never ever quit. They kept going, and god knows what could have happened if they simply surrendered because they were having “demons”. I’m sure those that did die in the many wars would be spinning in their graves about this attitude.

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Simone Biles has now withdrawn from the floor final. This means that she only has one event left, if she competes.

I feel so much for Simone. Whatever is wrong with her must be really bad for her to withdraw from all of these events on the worlds biggest stage and what will most likely be her last olympic Games.

I have a feeling we may get a tell all Oprah interview when she is back in the states.

As an athlete myself i know that her decision will not be taken easily.

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NBC Universal is expecting to turn a profit on the Tokyo Olympics. Meanwhile the revised figures for Tokyo's financial losses have gone from $20 billion to $30 billion.

I doubt these numbers go unnoticed by the No olympics crowd

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44 minutes ago, stryker said:

NBC Universal is expecting to turn a profit on the Tokyo Olympics. Meanwhile the revised figures for Tokyo's financial losses have gone from $20 billion to $30 billion.

To put things in perspective, that $30 billion is $562.53 lost per Japanese household across the entire country.

I doubt there will ever be another Olympics held in Japan after this.

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2 hours ago, stryker said:

NBC Universal is expecting to turn a profit on the Tokyo Olympics. Meanwhile the revised figures for Tokyo's financial losses have gone from $20 billion to $30 billion.

I doubt these numbers go unnoticed by the No olympics crowd

Where'd you get that figure?  

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2 hours ago, Nacre said:

To put things in perspective, that $30 billion is $562.53 lost per Japanese household across the entire country.

I doubt there will ever be another Olympics held in Japan after this.

"ever" is a long time.  Remains to be seen if this kills off any chances for Sapporo.  But yea, there may be another Olympics in Japan, but that's decades off if it happens

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6 hours ago, Nacre said:

To put things in perspective, that $30 billion is $562.53 lost per Japanese household across the entire country.

That doesn't seem that expensive when you put it in the perspective of the bigger picture. Just skip this year's "latest smartphone" craze, & you'd still come out ahead, considering the flagship models are well in excess of $1K these days.

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How much of that would they have made back in ticket sales though? Seems silly to use that figure in anti Olympic arguments, since (hopefully, please) these will be the only Olympics ever to be without crowds and that revenue. 

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We always knew Tokyo weren’t going to be a cheap games, but the Japanese seemed to be prepared to wear it until Covid. The pandemic really hit that bottom line hard, though, and unfortunately brought the whole investment in new stadia and the like into question. I hope the Japanese are enjoying the action and getting a lift out of their really good medal successes, but these are always going to be tarred as the Covid Games.

The NoOlympics crowd will of course milk that for all the mileage they can get. And social media these days gives them, like anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers, a disproportionately large megaphone.

The IOC, however, must be counting their blessings that if they were ever gonna have to take such a hit, they did it at a time when they already had three summer hosts locked in and up their sleeve. The proof of the pudding will now be how those games turn out, and on paper at least you’d have to say the Paris-LA-Brisbane sequence have the potential to be a solid successful run.

Will Japan ever bid again? I’d guess probably eventually. The jury’s still out on how the Japanese will regard these games long term. But I guess Covid will take a lot of the heat for many of the negatives rather than the Olympics per-se. All it will take is a few positive Olympics to come. Look at it this way, Montreal left a ledger in the red and a bad stench in Canada, but they didn’t stop Canada since 1976 going on to host two winter games and bid for two summer games.       

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29 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

We always knew Tokyo weren’t going to be a cheap games, but the Japanese seemed to be prepared to wear it until Covid. Will Japan ever bid again? I’d guess probably eventually. Look at it this way, Montreal left a ledger in the red and a bad stench in Canada, but they didn’t stop Canada since 1976 going on to host two winter games and bid for two summer games.       

That's a great analogy. And in regards to the Japanese, the case can be made the result that was Tokyo 2020ne, was something that was well beyond the TOCOG to even foresee back in 2013 when they won the bid.

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52 minutes ago, FYI said:

That's a great analogy. And in regards to the Japanese, the case can be made the result that was Tokyo 2020ne, was something that was well beyond the TOCOG to even foresee back in 2013 when they won the bid.

And on top of that, in terms of Montreal and Calgary, the Canadians didn’t even get the benefit of gold medals in front of a home crowd to stoke their future enthusiasm. The Japanese at least are getting lots of home town heroes to cheer them.

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It’s interesting that with what’s happened/happening with Tokyo 2020 that this 12 July 2021 report shows Sapporo 2030 is still on the radar (?).  Is this way out of date or is Sapporo 2030 pressing ahead? The two Games are very much connected now by the opinion polls of the Japanese people and the IOC’s new rules around public support:
 

Sapporo Wins Olympic Bid Backing - 12 July 2021 - Around The Rings via Infobae.com

“ATR: The site of the first Winter Olympics in Asia aims for an encore in 2030.”

“Sapporo, host of the 1972 Winter Games, is now the official candidate from Japan for 2030. The Japanese Olympic Committee met January 29 to endorse Sapporo’s efforts to secure the Games. The capital city of Hokkaido Prefecture was the only city responding to a call for bids in Japan that ended in December.”

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6 hours ago, stryker said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/07/30/tokyo-olympics-expected-to-lose-30-billion-huge-disaster/amp/

I am usually skeptical of the NY Post especially since it was Trump's mouthpiece in New York but Zimbalist is usually spot on.

They've had a lot of anti-Olympics articles recently.  I'm not going to automatically dismiss their sources, but it feels like it be another hit job from a media company that's a direct competitor to Comcast/NBCU

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2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Will Japan ever bid again? I’d guess probably eventually. The jury’s still out on how the Japanese will regard these games long term. But I guess Covid will take a lot of the heat for many of the negatives rather than the Olympics per-se. All it will take is a few positive Olympics to come. Look at it this way, Montreal left a ledger in the red and a bad stench in Canada, but they didn’t stop Canada since 1976 going on to host two winter games and bid for two summer games.       

Like I said, "ever" is a long time.  Would guess it'll take a long time and a new generation that has little memory of these Olympics to whet their appetite again.  Little different though than Canada since there were different cities involved.  We'll see what happens with Sapporo and how that will be received.  But in terms of a Summer Olympics, I can't see another city in Japan bidding, so I think the lingering memories and the numbers will be a turn-off for awhile to come

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17 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

Like I said, "ever" is a long time.  Would guess it'll take a long time and a new generation that has little memory of these Olympics to whet their appetite again.  Little different though than Canada since there were different cities involved.  We'll see what happens with Sapporo and how that will be received.  But in terms of a Summer Olympics, I can't see another city in Japan bidding, so I think the lingering memories and the numbers will be a turn-off for awhile to come

I think many misunderstand me around here. I am not part of the NOlympics crowd per se, but more of games being hosted responsibly. All the time we hear of plans like Agenda 2020 and yet costs still spiral out of control. When you have public referenda and taxpayers expressing NO to the IOC, it shows the extremely bad reputation the IOC has.

People may be enthusiastic somewhat now around the world, but a day after the closing ceremony and back to reality it will be.
 

Montreal 1976 even to this day is a bitter event for those living in Montreal. People there definitely don’t look back at it with positive memories unlike with Vancouver’s winter games for example. 
 

Does anyone know why Calgary entertained a 1988 bid? I can easily understand Toronto’s 96 and 08 bids, as a recent trend of mostly great summer games happened starting with Los Angeles. After Athens and Sochi, it’s easily understandable why Toronto didn’t want to bid for an Olympics in the midst of Pan Am fever. (Which even I admit were run very well)

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1 hour ago, MisterSG1 said:

I think many misunderstand me around here. I am not part of the NOlympics crowd per se, but more of games being hosted responsibly. All the time we hear of plans like Agenda 2020 and yet costs still spiral out of control. When you have public referenda and taxpayers expressing NO to the IOC, it shows the extremely bad reputation the IOC has.

That’s more than fair. I can’t disagree with that.

Only thing I’d add is that, to be fair, Agenda 2020 hasn’t really been tested by a “live” games yet. But the IOC has locked in three incoming summer hosts who all to varying degrees pitched their plans on sustainability and responsibility. Now, you can’t predict what will happen - 18 months ago Tokyo was looking rosy until the mother of all unforeseen circumstances turned everything upside down - but there’s good reasons to be optimistic for the summer games going forward.

It’s winter IMO where the IOC has its work cut out. Beijing’s shaping up as a challenge and I still think that snubbing Sweden for 2026 was a missed opportunity to make an Agenda 2020 statement.  And the ones being most heavily touted as in the frame for 2030 - SLC and Vancouver - don’t give any message beyond “recent host who can be slotted in easily“. Sapporo is problematic for various reasons mentioned at large here on the board. The IOC needs to find and nurture a good, responsible, probably regional WOG host to demonstrate Agenda 2020 and open up its opportunities for the future.

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1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

It’s winter IMO where the IOC has its work cut out. Beijing’s shaping up as a challenge and I still think that snubbing Sweden for 2026 was a missed opportunity to make an Agenda 2020 statement.  And the ones being most heavily touted as in the frame for 2030 - SLC and Vancouver - don’t give any message beyond “recent host who can be slotted in easily“. Sapporo is problematic for various reasons mentioned at large here on the board. The IOC needs to find and nurture a good, responsible, probably regional WOG host to demonstrate Agenda 2020 and open up its opportunities for the future.

Winter games are tricky because you need the actual geography to do it. Which of course is why the names of most Winter Olympics hosts prior to 1998 were in places the average person hasn’t even heard of. In recent trends, where Winter games have “anchors” in more well known, or shall we say “global” cities, a bid has to be regional. Which of course if it were possible to reactivate Lake Placid, these days such a games would have to be anchored by Montreal or NYC for example. (the former never happening because of the complicated quagmire of the Canada-US border)

Isn’t Milan’s games more “regional” then the proposed bid in Stockholm? Was the failure of the Stockholm bid the result of having events to take place in Latvia? Schengen (theoretically) makes the situation light years better than having events across the Canada-US border, but seeing the current nature of the Schengen Agreement, which COVID made much worse, it’s unclear if the Schengen Agreement will ever return to the way it was.

So I’m not sure if I remember this part, does Agenda 2020 explicitly say that Olympics ought to be more regional? Wouldn’t a more concentrated cluster be less wasteful? That’s how I see it anyways.

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1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

It’s winter IMO where the IOC has its work cut out. Beijing’s shaping up as a challenge and I still think that snubbing Sweden for 2026 was a missed opportunity to make an Agenda 2020 statement.  And the ones being most heavily touted as in the frame for 2030 - SLC and Vancouver - don’t give any message beyond “recent host who can be slotted in easily“. 

Was it really a case of "snubbing" Sweden, though. Or more of a case that the IOC was simply scared of a shaky Sweden. I'd say it was more the latter. Agenda 2020 aside for a moment, but this is the same Sweden that pulled out mid-race from 2022, & the same one that decided to pass on 2018 before that. Not to mention, that their 2004 Summer bid was also met with anything but enthusiasm in Sweden in 1997. So is it any wonder if the IOC had any doubts in the Swedes. The great distance between Are & Stockholm was also problematic, to say the least. 

Some here like to make the case that if another double-allocation was to take place, that it'd have to be with two cities that'd actually "make sense" to do so. Milan 2026 & Stockholm 2030, or vice-versa, certainly would've made sense back in 2019, when the 2026 vote took place. Two traditional, winter-sport locations "locked-in" back-to-back. Certainly would've taken care of the winter side of problems that the IOC is dealing with now. But at this juncture, they have to worry about finding a 2030 host during a pandemic, where no one else, besides SLC & maybe Vancouver wants.

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And on top of all the misery, the IOC is now deeply in hot water thanks to Lukashenko, still Belarus dictator, former NOC President, father of current NOC President and recipient of a Coubertin medal (or whatever the IOC calls its honour awards) from the hands of Thomas Bach himself.

Belarus wanted to basically kidnap its own sprinter Timanovskaya after she had criticised officials, and she managed to seek help of airport police. Latest is she is in the Polish embassy and asylum plans are made. Belarus (and Russian) media say she was removed from competition by the team because she was “emotionally unstable”. The IOC at least seems to support her and watches this case closely.

That’s what you get when you’re friends with dictators who like sports (and organise e.g. European Games for you).

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9 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

That’s more than fair. I can’t disagree with that.

Only thing I’d add is that, to be fair, Agenda 2020 hasn’t really been tested by a “live” games yet. But the IOC has locked in three incoming summer hosts who all to varying degrees pitched their plans on sustainability and responsibility. Now, you can’t predict what will happen - 18 months ago Tokyo was looking rosy until the mother of all unforeseen circumstances turned everything upside down - but there’s good reasons to be optimistic for the summer games going forward.

It’s winter IMO where the IOC has its work cut out. Beijing’s shaping up as a challenge and I still think that snubbing Sweden for 2026 was a missed opportunity to make an Agenda 2020 statement.  And the ones being most heavily touted as in the frame for 2030 - SLC and Vancouver - don’t give any message beyond “recent host who can be slotted in easily“. Sapporo is problematic for various reasons mentioned at large here on the board. The IOC needs to find and nurture a good, responsible, probably regional WOG host to demonstrate Agenda 2020 and open up its opportunities for the future.

I wish New Zealand would step up to the plate here. If the IOC could be persuaded on dates (could they in this new era?) an NZ regional Winter Olympics could be exceptional (Indoor venues in Christchurch and Auckland and mountain venues in Queenstown). 

Wish they'd have a crack at 2034 - would complement Brisbane 2032 beautifully.

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1 hour ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I wish New Zealand would step up to the plate here. If the IOC could be persuaded on dates (could they in this new era?) an NZ regional Winter Olympics could be exceptional (Indoor venues in Christchurch and Auckland and mountain venues in Queenstown). 

Wish they'd have a crack at 2034 - would complement Brisbane 2032 beautifully.

It's been discussed many times here before.. holding a Winter Olympics during the Northern hemisphere's summer is a non-starter for a number of reasons that cannot be overcome.  I don't doubt that New Zealand could put on a good show, but everyone involved - sports federations, television concerns, among others - would never be accepting of that calendar.  Let alone the clash it would create with the World Cup.

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11 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

Does anyone know why Calgary entertained a 1988 bid? I can easily understand Toronto’s 96 and 08 bids, as a recent trend of mostly great summer games happened starting with Los Angeles. After Athens and Sochi, it’s easily understandable why Toronto didn’t want to bid for an Olympics in the midst of Pan Am fever. (Which even I admit were run very well)

Calgary had been pursuing an Olympics for decades.  1988 wasn't their first shot.  They bid for 1964 and 1968 (after Montreal had bid for the 1956 Olympics), then Banff was the official bid city for 1972.  Vancouver-Garibaldi went for 1976 and was ready to step in when Denver threw in the towel.  There's some good background here how it all came to be, including how Calgary beat out Vancouver to beat the bid city.  And yes, a lot of this happened in the aftermath of Montreal `76... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Winter_Olympics#Host_city_selection

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11 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

I think many misunderstand me around here. I am not part of the NOlympics crowd per se, but more of games being hosted responsibly. All the time we hear of plans like Agenda 2020 and yet costs still spiral out of control. When you have public referenda and taxpayers expressing NO to the IOC, it shows the extremely bad reputation the IOC has.

People may be enthusiastic somewhat now around the world, but a day after the closing ceremony and back to reality it will be.

Understand though that we've been having these discussions for years here.  We're not unaware of the issues facing the IOC and the anti-Olympic backlash happening all over the world, much of which is justified.  So when you come into the conversation and think we're all "rah rah Olympics" and don't care about those issues, you have a wrong impression of the crowd here.

9 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

Isn’t Milan’s games more “regional” then the proposed bid in Stockholm? Was the failure of the Stockholm bid the result of having events to take place in Latvia? Schengen (theoretically) makes the situation light years better than having events across the Canada-US border, but seeing the current nature of the Schengen Agreement, which COVID made much worse, it’s unclear if the Schengen Agreement will ever return to the way it was.

So I’m not sure if I remember this part, does Agenda 2020 explicitly say that Olympics ought to be more regional? Wouldn’t a more concentrated cluster be less wasteful? That’s how I see it anyways.

The main thing about Agenda 2020 is that it's less about the IOC telling prospective bid cities what they should do and more about cities telling the IOC what's more responsible and sustainable for them.  It varies from city to city.  There's no template to what makes a city's bid more Agenda 2020 or less.

As FYI noted, Milan-Cortina won over Stockholm because Italy had support where Sweden did not.  Had nothing to do with using another country.  Italy proposed the bid they did in line with Agenda 2020, more because it was better for them than better for the IOC.  That's what we're going to see more of in the future.  The wild card is how the IOC interacts with cities, but I have a feeling that will be the key.  For a city to step up and say "this works for us" rather than the old formula of "let us wine and dine you with only the best we have to offer"

And obviously this applies even more for Winter bids.  Which is why another Salt Lake bid and a Vancouver redux are potentially in the cards.  Not because they're safe but because they're the most easily sustainable

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