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9 minutes ago, kevzz said:

I am sure IOC can push Brisbane to 2036 as a goodwill gesture to Tokyo given how much they have lost trying to host 2020

IOC already declared they had no intention of awarding 2036 games 15 years in advance, which makes sense because even 2032 is a long-term award

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Understand something about that though.. The Summer Olympics are a once every 4 years event.  That means at most only 25 countries can host an Olympics in an entire century, and that's if there a

Since the "Brazilians: topic was closed before I could comment, I was going to say that assessing 2016 is between vuvuzuelas and boos, I'd take the boos (which should have its limits).  But what I wil

As I've said elsewhere the recent number of new daily cases in Japan is roughly the same as here in Pennsylvania, and we have  a tenth of the population of Japan. I would love to have Japan's percenta

15 minutes ago, Chris_Mex said:

IOC already declared they had no intention of awarding 2036 games 15 years in advance, which makes sense because even 2032 is a long-term award

Then pcancel the 2032 bid, thanks Brisbane and others for their interest and give Tokyo 2032.

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5 hours ago, kevzz said:

I really think the Tokyo Games should be cancelled, or at least postponed to 2032 as some reported to be an option.

First, Covid situation is still uncertain in Japan which might rise again in the coming months. Safety concerns for the athletes, media and locals.

Secondly, it is not going to feel the same without international supporters and socially distances spectators. 

Thirdly, I suspect for many athletes, they won't be able to train in their 100% capacity due to the various lockdowns which is also unfair to athletes from countries where lockdown restrictions are more harsh. Hence this Games will not see athletes compete to their best ability. 

Lastly, I don't think the world is in the mood to follow the Games to be honest when we are still fighting this pandemic. I for one couldn't care less about the Olympics now. We need to get this crisis over before the world can come together again.

Obviously you could care less if you're here talking about the Olympics.  So clearly you care at least a little.

Yes, we're still in the middle of a pandemic, but when is it going to be over?  No one knows.  But in case you hadn't noticed, sports leagues are up and running all over the world right now.  Yes, in certain places it's tougher for athletes to prepare than others, but there's only so much that can be done about that.

No question this won't feel like a normal and regular Olympics.  But if the option is to have an Olympics that's less than normal and not to have an Olympics at all, there's no debate on that front IMO.  We all understand the strain that puts on Japan, but right now Japanese baseball is operating with limited attendance.  So clearly the rise in COVID cases is not enough to postpone that.  Why must it affect the Olympics?

More than that.. it's easy to say "give Tokyo the 2032 Olympics" but that's going to be more of an imposition on Japan.  11 more years of preparation for the Olympics and all the costs they'll incur?  They will say no to that.  It's a very unfortunate situation that they're in that this Olympics will be tainted by the pandemic.  But it's going to cost more than it's worth to say "you can have 2032" and ask them to pay for that additional expense.  And for the large percentage of Japanese citizens that don't want the Olympics now, I'm fairly confident most of them want nothing to do with another 11 year wait.

It's 2021 or bust for Tokyo.  Perhaps that's an irresponsible decision, but if the NPB is playing games in 2021, why are they okay and not Olympians?

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5 hours ago, kevzz said:

I for one couldn't care less about the Olympics now. 

 

I'm just as excited about the Olympics today as I ever have been.  If they take place, I will be just as glued to my computers watching as I have ever been.  Whether there are spectators or not, it doesn't matter to me, because the Games are really just a big TV show.  And honestly, in the last few Games I've seen large blocs of empty seats. And we've been watching every other sporting event without spectators, really.

That said, I understand the current situation in Japan, and worldwide.  I read today where one Japanese government minister said cancellation is still an option.  For me. that could be is laying the groundwork for an announcement that could come soon.  I will be disappointed, for sure, but life will go on and I hope that we can bring this pandemic under control and that we can have a 2024 Olympics. 

Yet many people in the USA are acting like the pandemic is over.  As of today, 46% of adults in the US have been vaccinated.  I don't count my self as one who believes it under control, but I have been extremely fortunate, as I have worked from home since last March and likely will continue for another year.  I don't have to ever leave my house.

 

    

 

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8 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

if the NPB is playing games in 2021, why are they okay and not Olympians?

I was going to say it in my last post, but Euro 2020 is a go, with fans in the stands, in 12 cities from Baku to Dublin. Is that still all right?

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3 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

Obviously you could care less if you're here talking about the Olympics.  So clearly you care at least a little.

Yes, we're still in the middle of a pandemic, but when is it going to be over?  No one knows.  But in case you hadn't noticed, sports leagues are up and running all over the world right now.  Yes, in certain places it's tougher for athletes to prepare than others, but there's only so much that can be done about that.

No question this won't feel like a normal and regular Olympics.  But if the option is to have an Olympics that's less than normal and not to have an Olympics at all, there's no debate on that front IMO.  We all understand the strain that puts on Japan, but right now Japanese baseball is operating with limited attendance.  So clearly the rise in COVID cases is not enough to postpone that.  Why must it affect the Olympics?

More than that.. it's easy to say "give Tokyo the 2032 Olympics" but that's going to be more of an imposition on Japan.  11 more years of preparation for the Olympics and all the costs they'll incur?  They will say no to that.  It's a very unfortunate situation that they're in that this Olympics will be tainted by the pandemic.  But it's going to cost more than it's worth to say "you can have 2032" and ask them to pay for that additional expense.  And for the large percentage of Japanese citizens that don't want the Olympics now, I'm fairly confident most of them want nothing to do with another 11 year wait.

It's 2021 or bust for Tokyo.  Perhaps that's an irresponsible decision, but if the NPB is playing games in 2021, why are they okay and not Olympians?

Perhaps I used the word too strongly here. I do care about the Olympics but I feel with the current climate, there are bigger things to worry about like in the UK where I am now -  it is a shame that we won't be able to fully the Games as it is. I don't think one can use the argument that having the Games can be a good distraction, when lots of people up and down the country (and the world) are still struggling with the ongoing pandemic/ economy, mental well-being effects of recovery from lockdowns.

I guess I just want Tokyo to have the full experience. The athletes and the world to have the full experience. Probably that's a bit too much to ask now.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, kevzz said:

I guess I just want Tokyo to have the full experience. The athletes and the world to have the full experience. Probably that's a bit too much to ask now.

 

 

All of us do.  Really.  I don't think we would be here otherwise.  But if the choice is Olympics with no spectators or no Olympics at all, I think I know where most of us will be.   I'll take my no spectator Olympics this year, and hope for something better in 3 years.

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I agree with wanting Tokyo to have the full experience. I remember in July 2019 looking so forward to Tokyo 2020. Remembering the closing ceremony in Rio 2016 & how awesome the Tokyo 2020 presentation was. But I also agree that having Tokyo 2020ne versus having no Olympics at all, is better than nothing.

So many other things are also starting to come back to normal, not only in the sports world. But into filming shows/movies, having studio audiences back (still with masks though) & theme parks opening back up, etc. So why can’t the Olympics still go on in that capacity as well. I understand that it won’t be the 100% experience from previous Olympics, but this is the boat we’re now in until further notice. So why not make the best we can out of it, with all the precautions necessary.

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23 minutes ago, kevzz said:

Perhaps I used the word too strongly here. I do care about the Olympics but I feel with the current climate, there are bigger things to worry about like in the UK where I am now -  it is a shame that we won't be able to fully the Games as it is. I don't think one can use the argument that having the Games can be a good distraction, when lots of people up and down the country (and the world) are still struggling with the ongoing pandemic/ economy, mental well-being effects of recovery from lockdowns.

I guess I just want Tokyo to have the full experience. The athletes and the world to have the full experience. Probably that's a bit too much to ask now.

Again, at this point the options are to have a less-than-full experience or have no experience at all.  Which one of those is the preferred option?

We all get that there's a pandemic still going on, but a lot of things that maybe shouldn't be happened are taking place now because they can't simply wait for the pandemic to be 100% over.  You can worry about bigger things and the Olympics can still happen.  I feel awful for the folks in Japan who have spent time and money and energy into putting on their Olympics and now it's going to forever be tainted for reasons that were completely out of their control.  Nothing that can be done about it now.

Unless you're concerned that the Olympics will affect your life directly (I've heard that a lot about other sports and it rings hollow.. how many athletes are taking COVID precautions more seriously because they're playing games than if they weren't), then I believe the Games absolutely can be an excellent distraction, even in the face of people still struggling through this pandemic.  If it's possible to hold the Olympics safely without threatening a major spread of COVID through Japan and the rest of the world (easier said than done, but I believe Japan is a good place for this to happen), then as the famous saying goes - or infamous depending on your point of view - "The Games must go on"

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Super, super worried about Japan now.  Vax rollout has been diabolically slow, Johnson and Johnson just got delayed, and looks like COVID infections are increasing in Japan.  That seriously sux.  I hope they find a way to pull it off, but if not, I hope they can find a way to get Tokyo an Olympics next decade at some point.  I am fully aware that the IOC does not HAAAVE to do this, but it would be a great solidarity move if it does have to get cancelled to award them 2032 or 2036.  Yeah I know that would really rock Brisbane's socks giving Tokyo 2032, but I guess this is just a good case study to not award the games too far in advance then.  It's a sticky situation, but if I was in charge........Brisbane can have hurt feelings, IOC can tell them theyre pole position for 2036, and give Tokyo the 2032 games.  Tokyo has literally already built their stuff, Brisbane has not. 

But, lets hope that scenario does not have to come to pass and we can somehow get this thing to happen.

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I wonder whether any potential future bid cities will look at what Tokyo has been through and think it’s not worth taking the risk to host the Olympics anymore? 

Unless there is an insurance policy in some way that guarantees the host city would not incur massive financial loss in case of another pandemic cancellation?

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1 hour ago, iceman530 said:

Super, super worried about Japan now.  Vax rollout has been diabolically slow, Johnson and Johnson just got delayed, and looks like COVID infections are increasing in Japan.  That seriously sux.  I hope they find a way to pull it off, but if not, I hope they can find a way to get Tokyo an Olympics next decade at some point.  I am fully aware that the IOC does not HAAAVE to do this, but it would be a great solidarity move if it does have to get cancelled to award them 2032 or 2036.  Yeah I know that would really rock Brisbane's socks giving Tokyo 2032, but I guess this is just a good case study to not award the games too far in advance then.  It's a sticky situation, but if I was in charge........Brisbane can have hurt feelings, IOC can tell them theyre pole position for 2036, and give Tokyo the 2032 games.  Tokyo has literally already built their stuff, Brisbane has not. 

But, lets hope that scenario does not have to come to pass and we can somehow get this thing to happen.

Don't be worried (okay, maybe be a little worried).  I think a lot of this is just public posturing to appease their citizens who are apprehensive about athletes from around the world coming to Japan.  Totally understandable.  But the day the torch relay started, there was no turning back barring a major change in the course of the pandemic.  What's happening in Japan is extremely concerning, but apparently not concerning enough to shut down their baseball season.

Hypothetically speaking though, let's say disaster happens and they have to cancel the Olympics this summer.  It's nice for us in the peanut gallery to wish for Japan to get an Olympics, but I'm fairly confident they'll want absolutely nothing to do with it.  That's not solidarity with Japan.  That's imposing on them for another decade.  Which is probably the last thing they need right now.  Because all of the things they built will literally be a decade older and need to be kept up to standard as a result.  And there's the little matter of the Olympic Village, which probably needs to be re-imaged from the ground up.  You know who would be more shocked than Brisbane if Tokyo got 2032?... Tokyo.  Look at this from their standpoint, because they'll have probably soured on the Olympics for a long time if the fallout from all this is no Olympics.  And yes, a million times over, let's hope it doesn't come to that.

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Well, at least in mostly Democratic countries, the Olympics were starting to lose their appeal even before Corona. Mainly countries with “something to prove”, like Qatar, India & Indonesia, seem to be the only ones that wanna bother right now. That’s probably why the IOC (well, mainly Coates & Bach, that is) has jumped on Brisbane so far in advance as they did. Whether or not that’s still the right move, remains to be seen, considering how much work Brisbane will still need to do, even if the plan calls for very spread-out venues. The Olympics are very expensive to pull-off no matter what. So to find the right balancing act for them is still a big work-in-progress.

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1 hour ago, kevzz said:

I wonder whether any potential future bid cities will look at what Tokyo has been through and think it’s not worth taking the risk to host the Olympics anymore? 

Unless there is an insurance policy in some way that guarantees the host city would not incur massive financial loss in case of another pandemic cancellation?

Without the slightest doubt in my mind potential bid cities are going to be asking a lot of questions and have trouble selling to their citizens about the risk/reward of hosting an Olympics.  And yes, all future host cities will need to recalculate their insurance policies for something like this.  This all definitely needs to lead to re-examining the relationship between the host city and the IOC.  Absolutely it could scare off some future host cities if the IOC isn't more forthcoming about providing support to the host city rather than putting the onus on them to deliver for the IOC with the host city/country assuming most of the risk.

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4 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Don't be worried (okay, maybe be a little worried).  I think a lot of this is just public posturing to appease their citizens who are apprehensive about athletes from around the world coming to Japan.  Totally understandable.  But the day the torch relay started, there was no turning back barring a major change in the course of the pandemic.  What's happening in Japan is extremely concerning, but apparently not concerning enough to shut down their baseball season.

Hypothetically speaking though, let's say disaster happens and they have to cancel the Olympics this summer.  It's nice for us in the peanut gallery to wish for Japan to get an Olympics, but I'm fairly confident they'll want absolutely nothing to do with it.  That's not solidarity with Japan.  That's imposing on them for another decade.  Which is probably the last thing they need right now.  Because all of the things they built will literally be a decade older and need to be kept up to standard as a result.  And there's the little matter of the Olympic Village, which probably needs to be re-imaged from the ground up.  You know who would be more shocked than Brisbane if Tokyo got 2032?... Tokyo.  Look at this from their standpoint, because they'll have probably soured on the Olympics for a long time if the fallout from all this is no Olympics.  And yes, a million times over, let's hope it doesn't come to that.

thats all......... very valid.  There's a compelling argument from that lens as well.  Japan as a nation, all things considered, can take a good deal of disappointment and acceptance of things not going well or to plan and not raise much of a fuss about it.  But this.........this is different.  Japan is furious about these games and how things have gone so far.  They just want it to happen and be done with it. 

This is looking like its going to be a "game time decision" if this goes forward or not.  It could well be beginning July before we get a yay or a nay

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1 hour ago, iceman530 said:

thats all......... very valid.  There's a compelling argument from that lens as well.  Japan as a nation, all things considered, can take a good deal of disappointment and acceptance of things not going well or to plan and not raise much of a fuss about it.  But this.........this is different.  Japan is furious about these games and how things have gone so far.  They just want it to happen and be done with it. 

This is looking like its going to be a "game time decision" if this goes forward or not.  It could well be beginning July before we get a yay or a nay

Well, right now it's going forward, so unless something happens to change that, it's going to continue to go forward.  The working assumption should be that there will be an Olympics this summer until someone in a very official capacity says otherwise.  Sure, there will continue to be lingering doubts whether or not it will happen, but we shouldn't pretend like we need to wait to figure out if the Olympics are going to happen or not.

So yes, at this point, Japan wants it over and done with.  Do you see the folly based on that to talk about Tokyo hosting a future Olympics if this summer work out?  That's hardly a lens to look through.  It's an objective reality.  Very easy to make the point this all should have been shut down or at the very least postponed again.  Not anyone's fault in Tokyo or Japan that their Olympics - which wasn't without controversy - now gets marred by a pandemic.  As the story goes though, too many people with political and economic capital at stake who need the show to go on, even if it's a little reckless and irresponsible at this point to do so

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11 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Without the slightest doubt in my mind potential bid cities are going to be asking a lot of questions and have trouble selling to their citizens about the risk/reward of hosting an Olympics.  And yes, all future host cities will need to recalculate their insurance policies for something like this.  This all definitely needs to lead to re-examining the relationship between the host city and the IOC.  Absolutely it could scare off some future host cities if the IOC isn't more forthcoming about providing support to the host city rather than putting the onus on them to deliver for the IOC with the host city/country assuming most of the risk.

Can't help to think of the idea of a permanent Olympic venue again e.g an Olympic island in Greece. 

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4 hours ago, kevzz said:

Can't help to think of the idea of a permanent Olympic venue again e.g an Olympic island in Greece. 

Sounds nice in theory.  Wouldn't work in practice.  You can't have all these facilities in 1 place if they're going to sit doormat for all but 1 month out of every 4 years.  This is why only large cities with a great deal of infrastructure should be hosting the Olympics and any city that needs to build a whole Olympic park from scratch should be told no from the get go

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4 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

This is why only large cities with a great deal of infrastructure should be hosting the Olympics and any city that needs to build a whole Olympic park from scratch should be told no from the get go

Yeah, sure. Another nice in theory, but wouldn’t work in practice if no large (viable) cities are on the table for any given Games. Cuz apparently, that’s why the 2032 Games, which appear to be handed-over on a silver platter very soon, to a (smaller) city that would require quite a deal of investment in infrastructure in order so they can host.

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38 minutes ago, FYI said:

Yeah, sure. Another nice in theory, but wouldn’t work in practice if no large (viable) cities are on the table for any given Games. Cuz apparently, that’s why the 2032 Games, which appear to be handed-over on a silver platter very soon, to a (smaller) city that would require quite a deal of investment in infrastructure in order so they can host.

"should be"

This is still the IOC we're talking about.  Can't really trust them to make sensible decisions

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It didn't take long for the IOC to respond after the Kyodo News poll showing nearly 70 percent not wanting the Olympics to go ahead. 

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1106592/ioc-confident-japan-public-tokyo-2020

I was surprised it only took 24 hours before the IOC trotted out their resident spin doctor John Coates who put a spin out there that Fox News would be proud of. Granted, the IOC doesn't have a lot of cards to play here other than the "once the Olympics get started opinions will change." Then Coates makes the horrible comparison with the lead up to the Sydney Olympics where you have two completely different contexts here with Tokyo dealing with a global pandemic and an impending financial disaster, neither of which Sydney had. If anything, Coates' comments inflame the situation even more.

This is a pick your poison moment for the IOC and Tokyo. Cancel the Olympics and Japan sees 1.4% of its GDP shaved off for 2021. Go ahead with a either a few fans or none at all and deal with a multi-billion dollar loss but hopefully have some feel good competition moments and hope the public forgets the money aspect for a little bit anyway. I, for one, do hope they can go ahead even behind closed doors. The fallout though is going to affect the IOC and Olympic bidding for years to come. At a time when the IOC is struggling to find host cities, what has happened with Tokyo couldn't have come at a worse time. For starters, I think Japan is probably out of any Olympic bidding for at least two decades. I cannot see Japan having the stomach to spend on another bid anytime soon. When the IOC is already short on safe reliable countries, losing Japan is huge as it now leaves only two safe bidders in Asia in Korea and China.

As the numbers come out and we see Tokyo with many purpose-built Olympic venues that would likely have never been built like the Seaforest Rowing Course, Ariake Arena, or the aquatics stadium  downsizing them to legacy mode having never come to full capacity, it's going to give the No Olympics crowd fresh ammunition. Of course the IOC and the respective sports federations can say these venues will leave a lasting legacy but it doesn't hide the financial aspect. Given all this plus the current government's less than stellar handling of the pandemic means I think when the next elections in Japan roll around, there could be a major shift in power when the voters have their say. Voters tend to punish politicians who go ahead with projects they don't have approval of or can't handle a crisis. Both Koike and Suga could be on their way out. Having Beijing 2022 with all the human rights talk does help matters nor does having the 2026 WOGs being held in a country that's practically broke.

There is some hope here. Paris and Los Angeles have a chance to right the ship, at least temporarily before the true test comes with Brisbane. Paris has recognized they can save even more money and have gotten rid of all the temporary arenas including using an existing arena for aquatics and going as far as to move handball all the way out to Lille (I suspect the IHF will try to fight this) but Paris has the upper hand here. The organizers need to stand their ground unlike the Tokyo organizers did when it came to venues for volleyball and rowing. As for Beijing, probably not much the IOC can do here. For Italy, the IOC needs to encourage further use of existing venues, perhaps in Turin. It's all balancing act to say the least as the effects of the Tokyo Olympics are going to reverberate for a while.

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On 4/15/2021 at 4:56 PM, Triplecast said:

I was going to say it in my last post, but Euro 2020 is a go, with fans in the stands, in 12 cities from Baku to Dublin. Is that still all right?

This is still being debated as conditions in the countries vary. UEFA and DFB have put enormous pressure on Munich to guarantee spectators with a deadline tomorrow, I think. But the city is not willing to give in to demands at this point. Bundesliga matches are still played in empty arenas and will most likely do so for the remaining matches.

UEFA has apparently threatened to remove Munich from the list for EURO 2020 but the overwhelming majority here supports the stance of the city.

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