Tokyo 2020 News - General

[Victorian]

14 minutes ago, Nacre said:

It has not fully reformed, but he has at least bought them another 11 years in which to change their way of doing things.

I remain dubious that a spread out plan is going to work well. (Having everything in one city makes logistical issues a lot easier.) But they absolutely have to do something to break the sports up into smaller groups. I would prefer four games instead of two, but regional bids like the Gold Coast regional bid for 2032 is the other viable way to achieve it.

I think we have to wait until after 2032 before we can judge Bach's tenure.

The locations for SEQ though aren't any different to the distance for LA. People forget this. Brisbane isn't massive like Los Angeles so the distance from the Sunshine Coast to Gold Coast are similar to the distance for venues for LA 28.

[Nacre]

I see your point.

Long Beach - Los Angeles - Sherman Oaks: 72 km

Gold Coast - Brisbane - Sunshine Coast: 184 km

In fairness even Tokyo is doing this with track cycling in Izu: 130 km away from Tokyo proper.

[WD96]

38 minutes ago, Nacre said:

I think we have to wait until after 2032 before we can judge Bach's tenure.

Exactly what I said before.

[GoNutz]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:52 AM, Quaker2001 said:

At this point, it's all but a statement of fact that the IOC is woefully corrupt.  The problem is that at this point, they are the Olympic Games and there's no way to separate the 2.  And I can totally understand the sentiment from a lot of people that the Olympics need to be dismantled for that reason.  When people bring up there's a history of racism with the IOC and a whole long list of terrible things associated with them, they're not wrong.  So yes, like you I'm torn between wanting to view and experience the Olympics solely as a sporting event, but have trouble separating out all the politics and other unavoidable negatives that have permanently sullied the Olympic movement.  We all want the IOC not to be terrible and for the Olympics not to be a burden on the host city.  But they are.  And I don't know what the solution is going forward, because it'll take a massive reform on the part of the NBC to take the stink off of the monster they have created in the past couple of decades.

I know, this is entirely their show and there's no way around that. At the same time I turned on Peacock last month to replace Netflix for a while, and I plonked down $65 yesterday to turn on Hulu Live for a month so I'm just patronizing the people I criticize.

NBC absolutely could push for a lot of reform, and maybe 2022 will start that, but I have no doubts in my mind that the next few weeks are going to be a ratings bonanza for NBC, and winning that papers over a lot of the chattering we do about the real ickiness of the IOC.

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, GoNutz said:

I know, this is entirely their show and there's no way around that. At the same time I turned on Peacock last month to replace Netflix for a while, and I plonked down $65 yesterday to turn on Hulu Live for a month so I'm just patronizing the people I criticize.

NBC absolutely could push for a lot of reform, and maybe 2022 will start that, but I have no doubts in my mind that the next few weeks are going to be a ratings bonanza for NBC, and winning that papers over a lot of the chattering we do about the real ickiness of the IOC.

You know, I clearly meant to say IOC when I typed NBC.  I don't think there's much of anything NBC can do here.  They're a partner, just like the host cities.  They have their financial interests, but there's only so much they can do as a rightsholder.  Their job is to cover the event, not to become a part of it.  How they present that coverage to their audience is a separate issue altogether than that of the host cities.

[GoNutz]

7 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

You know, I clearly meant to say IOC when I typed NBC.  I don't think there's much of anything NBC can do here.  They're a partner, just like the host cities.  They have their financial interests, but there's only so much they can do as a rightsholder.  Their job is to cover the event, not to become a part of it.  How they present that coverage to their audience is a separate issue altogether than that of the host cities.

I didn't pick out IOC from that, I thought you were making a greater point that money is actually the true controlling factor for the IOC, and NBC being the single largest and actually greatest overall source of revenue for the IOC, does actually have a lot of power. If you add to that, that we're almost certainly past peak olympics and with audience fragmentation the way it is, and the revenue strategies of NBCUniversal while it's still a novel spectacle, it doesn't draw the single focus it has in the past. Now a domestic event like SLC, or LA will definitely draw, but Asian time zones don't lead to great coverage, and I think 2022 is going to follow and maybe even pick up speed for the downward trend especially for the winter version.

I believe were NBC to push for some reforms they might be able to get something done, but I also believe that if they told NBC to take a hike, Disney would probably be right there offering nearly the same amount for rights. I'm of the belief that reform will come when a distinct downward trend in attention emerges and that could happen as early as this winter with Beijing, so I hold a flicker of hope. 

[stryker]

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31847805/tokyo-2020-organizing-committee-chief-rule-cancellation-summer-olympics

So a last minute cancellation is still a possibility if cases continue to rise. For arguments sake, if the organizing committee decided on a last minute cancellation, the IOC's response would be interesting nonetheless. The IOC has no authority to force Tokyo to hold the Olympics at all costs.

[WD96]

Tokyo 2020 is not alone, Antwerp 1920 was held in a pandemic. 

[FYI]

That’s not necessarily true. The 1918 pandemic was pretty much done by the time Antwerp hosted in August 1920. But this is really a sad state of affairs all the way around, especially for Tokyo. Many athletes have already dropped out, so this isn’t going to be much of a Games anyway.  Beijing 2022 probably won’t be that much better, either. But the Chinese organizers (& the IOC, for that matter) will undoubtedly paint the prettiest picture that they can regardless.

[WD96]

If anything, that will not only affect Tokyo 2020 but it also affect Beijing 2022 too.

[Quaker2001]

5 hours ago, stryker said:

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31847805/tokyo-2020-organizing-committee-chief-rule-cancellation-summer-olympics

So a last minute cancellation is still a possibility if cases continue to rise. For arguments sake, if the organizing committee decided on a last minute cancellation, the IOC's response would be interesting nonetheless. The IOC has no authority to force Tokyo to hold the Olympics at all costs.

There is ZERO chance of a last minute cancellation.  I really dislike the "they didn't rule it out" element of reporting.  It would take an act of G-d at this point to stop these Olympics from happening.

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, FYI said:

That’s not necessarily true. The 1918 pandemic was pretty much done by the time Antwerp hosted in August 1920. But this is really a sad state of affairs all the way around, especially for Tokyo. Many athletes have already dropped out, so this isn’t going to be much of a Games anyway.  Beijing 2022 probably won’t be that much better, either. But the Chinese organizers (& the IOC, for that matter) will undoubtedly paint the prettiest picture that they can regardless.

A year ago, the prospect of a Tokyo Olympics followed shortly thereafter by Beijing seemed like a great thing.  Now, not so much.  I'm sure there's more than a few people within the IOC that just want to get through the next 8 months and then start focusing their sights on Paris and hope that the Olympic movement hasn't been permanently damaged.

[WD96]

4 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

I'm sure there's more than a few people within the IOC that just want to get through the next 8 months and then start focusing their sights on Paris and hope that the Olympic movement hasn't been permanently damaged.

Milan too.

[Quaker2001]

12 hours ago, GoNutz said:

I didn't pick out IOC from that, I thought you were making a greater point that money is actually the true controlling factor for the IOC, and NBC being the single largest and actually greatest overall source of revenue for the IOC, does actually have a lot of power. If you add to that, that we're almost certainly past peak olympics and with audience fragmentation the way it is, and the revenue strategies of NBCUniversal while it's still a novel spectacle, it doesn't draw the single focus it has in the past. Now a domestic event like SLC, or LA will definitely draw, but Asian time zones don't lead to great coverage, and I think 2022 is going to follow and maybe even pick up speed for the downward trend especially for the winter version.

I believe were NBC to push for some reforms they might be able to get something done, but I also believe that if they told NBC to take a hike, Disney would probably be right there offering nearly the same amount for rights. I'm of the belief that reform will come when a distinct downward trend in attention emerges and that could happen as early as this winter with Beijing, so I hold a flicker of hope. 

Disney had a chance to take over the show back in 2011 when Comcast had just taken off NBC and were preaching that they didn't want to over-spend.  Easy for history to forget it was not a given that NBC would win the rights for the 2014-2020 package.  There were serious doubts back then.  But in the end, NBC was willing to pay the big bucks and Disney was not.

There is a lot of sentiment out there that the Olympics perhaps are no longer in the 21st century what they were for most of the 20th.  That a worldwide celebration of athletes doesn't resonate the same way as it used to, particularly given the burdens in places on certain people and places.  I don't know what can be done about that, and maybe some of that negative sentiment will subside after Tokyo and Beijing are in the history books.  The only thing that gives me hope, and maybe this is a myopic view as an American, is that Los Angeles is on the horizon.  And while I'm not counting on them to be the same kind of savior to the Olympics that the `84 Games were, at least I remain cautiously optimistic that it can be successful enough to silence some of the critics, even if it's only temporary.

[MisterSG1]

Again Quaker, your arrogance about this whole thing is astounding.

First you agree the IOC is evil and yet you insist on the games being held in Tokyo no matter what, no matter what Tokyo thinks about this whole thing now. You’re entire selfish interests about wanting to see sports that are supposedly the best in the world trumps public health? Give me a break.

I’m not trying to troll but what good has ever actually come from the Olympics, let’s be honest, I can think of multiple negatives right off the top of my head.

Read the comments of any article about the Olympics in Canada and you’ll see anger about the Tokyo games going further.

I hope any Canadian athlete who was selfish enough to participate in these games gets blacklisted from any kind of employment in the future.

[iceman530]

This is...........not going to go well.  

It is going to go.  But it is not going to go well.

[iceman530]

I know the USA womens gymnast members are all collectively clinching their butts right now.  If Simone had to step off because of the virus, oh man, the optics on that would be something.  

[Gonzo]

All it's gonna take is for a competitor in a team sport to test positive, meaning all their teammate become close contacts

Event over

[WD96]

Oh, shizl gzngahr, this is going to be one of the biggest debates in Olympic history.

[Quaker2001]

39 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

All it's gonna take is for a competitor in a team sport to test positive, meaning all their teammate become close contacts

Event over

It's inevitably going to happen.  Some event is going to get postponed or maybe even cancelled.  Or some team is going to have to drop out of a competition.  

[StefanMUC]

2 hours ago, iceman530 said:

I know the USA womens gymnast members are all collectively clinching their butts right now.  If Simone had to step off because of the virus, oh man, the optics on that would be something.  

Interestingly, one of Germany‘s leading sports journalists/IOC critics raised exactly that point yesterday:

For all the claims by Bach & co about „safe Games“ and „strict Covid-19 measures“, the true test of these words would be if someone like Biles had to follow the same quarantine rules like some unknown athlete from country X and potentially miss their competition because of it.

[Quaker2001]

4 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

Again Quaker, your arrogance about this whole thing is astounding.

First you agree the IOC is evil and yet you insist on the games being held in Tokyo no matter what, no matter what Tokyo thinks about this whole thing now. You’re entire selfish interests about wanting to see sports that are supposedly the best in the world trumps public health? Give me a break.

I’m not trying to troll but what good has ever actually come from the Olympics, let’s be honest, I can think of multiple negatives right off the top of my head.

Read the comments of any article about the Olympics in Canada and you’ll see anger about the Tokyo games going further.

I hope any Canadian athlete who was selfish enough to participate in these games gets blacklisted from any kind of employment in the future.

Usually the only people who say "I'm not trying to troll" are people who are trying to troll.  It's like saying "no offense" right before you say something offensive, but think that makes it okay.

If you're looking for a forum to **** on the Olympics, this isn't it.  Especially if you're going to be a complete and total asshole about it.  Any Canadian athlete should be shunned by society?  What kind of garbage is that.  I would love for you to meet up with a Canadian Olympian and see you try and tell them to their face they deserve to be jobless.

So nothing good has come from the Olympics in 125 years?  Really, nothing at all?  The Games aren't being held because of my insistence.  They're being held because the IOC doesn't want to return their sponsorship money.  They're being held because the Japanese don't want to lose face and offer the realization that they mis-handled the pandemic.  And the level of paranoia and fear-mongering that's accompanying these Olympics as if this event is going to kill thousands of people is way over the top.  I wonder if the people making those claims have been following the 2022 World Cup and are aware of how many people have *actually* died so that Qatar can host the World Cup.

The fact you still have a Toronto 2024 image in your signature is probably evidence enough that you shouldn't be taken seriously.  If you want to troll, then own the fact you're a troll.  Certainly wouldn't make you the first place here to fall under that heading.

[iceman530]

57 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Interestingly, one of Germany‘s leading sports journalists/IOC critics raised exactly that point yesterday:

For all the claims by Bach & co about „safe Games“ and „strict Covid-19 measures“, the true test of these words would be if someone like Biles had to follow the same quarantine rules like some unknown athlete from country X and potentially miss their competition because of it.

Well one of the two USA womens gymnast members of the reserve team was positive.  They have been air tight about rumors of them training together, but the other reserve gymnast was apparently absolutely exposed too.  

[iceman530]

Either way, Tokyo's "bubble" is already proving to be craptacular.  The amount of positives already is very concerning, and its only gonna get worse closer to the games

[Quaker2001]

11 minutes ago, iceman530 said:

Either way, Tokyo's "bubble" is already proving to be craptacular.  The amount of positives already is very concerning, and its only gonna get worse closer to the games

We learned this last year with the NBA and NHL.  Only qualifies as a true bubble if access is strictly controlled.  That's not the case here.  It was never going to be 100% secure