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yoshi

UK. EU. Yes? No? Referendum 23 June.

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Unfortunate, I actually liked David Cameron and thought he was a fairly decent Prime Minister. I certainly liked him a lot more then Blair or Brown.

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So why have we voted Out? There will doubtless be many reasons cited in the time to come, but one crucial point that mustn't be overlooked is that of the extent to which anti-EU feeling has been allowed to fester by successive British governments.

While I have no doubt that you are right, it is also worth noting that this is not simply a case of British annoyance with EU regulations. "Native born" working class people in nearly all first world democracies are angry at the elites of society.

In the UK it is the declining white working class between London and Scotland that have voted against the EU. In the USA the white working class between New York and Los Angeles that have lost their manufacturing jobs to jobs to China and service jobs to Mexican immigrants that have turned to Donald Trump as their salvation. And of course the other Euro countries have a resurgent right wing.

Those few countries that have avoided far right populism are those like Canada that have very tough skills based immigration policies. Educated and wealthy people find it very easy to get into Canada. But few unskilled workers are allowed in that will end up competing with native born Canadians for already low wage jobs.

I am afraid there is no easy solution in sight other than more investment in secondary education to increase worker productivity and (indirectly) decrease the supply of unskilled labor.

Edited by Nacre

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I followed the whole debate on British TV and sometimes couldn't believe the complete BS being uttered by the Leave camp. It was clear that any meaningful discussion was being hijacked by a debate on immigration. If the Remain camp's stance on that subject was maladroit , the brexiters (brex$hitters?) ran a campaign which, in the words of John Major, verged on the squalid. They deliberately confused the issue between EU and non EU immigrants knowing full well that what was itching jobless workers, UKIP supporters and sympathisers was the latter, much less the former.

'Leave' have now pulled off the biggest con trick in British political postwar history.

I just hope they don't live to regret it......

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Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has made a statement - in which she's basically done everything but formally pull the trigger on a second independence referendum:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36621030

Scotland's got a choice - stay in the UK with no protest (unlikely), wait a few years until their economy picks up and in the meantime put together a coherent plan for independence which they can put to a vote, or vote to leave now and hope like hell everything will be ok with regard to currency, the financial deficit they have and re-accession to the EU (that's if a second referendum is even allowed right away.)

Edited by Rob.

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Very stupid outcome of a referendum we shouldn't even have had

The out campaign was all lies.!!!!!!!

Those who voted 'out' should demand from the future British government that £350 million be injected every week into the economy.

Love to see you talk yourself out of that one Boris!

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Not suprised at all. Seeing how all of Scotland voted against Brexit, all of us guessed the unintended consequences would be the revival of their independent desires, maybe feeling England is going to drag them onto a mess.


Now I hope this Brexit idea works or it would end up becoming a Cautionary Tale to the rest of EU members if they want to do their own exit process.

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What a disaster for the UK this has turned out to be!

I just can't believe the majority of English and Welsh people (not Scots or Irish) bought into the nonsense that Johnson and Farage have been spouting! The country has actually turned to THEM for political direction. It just beggars belief!!! :angry:

The consequences of this madness will now be very serious. For starters, Scotland will almost certainly hold another independence referendum soon and vote to leave the UK. Leaving things can quickly become a fashionable habit!

For my part, I now intend to invoke my right to apply for Irish citizenship (I have Irish ancestry which makes me eligible). I don't intend to give up on the benefits of EU membership even if a majority of my fellow Brits are too misguided to appreciate them!

I just hope and pray that this doesn't come back to bite the UK in the worst way possible. But I now fear and expect the worst!!! :(

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Welcome to the new 1930's of recession, mass unemployment, feckless establishment governments and far right populism threatening to blow the world to hell.

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Never underestimate the power of the uninformed voter.

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Welcome back 1979...

Although a drop in the Pound will see a more balanced economic outlook for now. Always considered far and above overvalue.

Disappointed yes...Simply because angry ordinary folk just made for themselves more hard work for no gain.

The UK has no one to fall back on. (Commonwealth is little more than a nostalgic tall tales club these days)

The effect on the Eurozone is worrying... FREXIT vote now looks likely.

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Well clearly you're wrong since the value of the British pound has dropped when leave took the lead lol

...and what happens?...Overseas investment buys up currency.

The pound has stabilized and starting to firm up.

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The pro FREXIT crown might want to wait a bit and see how this works out for Britian.

Team Leave sold BREXIT with the idea they will be able to negotiate new treaties with all the positives of the EU, with none of the negatives. Right now, the rest of Europe seems to be saying, "It's been fun, now get the **** out."

Maybe it works out all hunky dory for Britain. I'm thinking it'll be really messy. Then again, I thought BREXIT would lose, so what do I know.

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The irony is that it will probably work out OK for the young people in the UK who see this as the apocalypse. It's the pensioners who voted to leave the EU who will end up with a big chunk of their purchasing power vaporized.

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It is really hard for me to put into words what I think about this. So I will stick to bullet points

1) Big winner of the day, Poland. They will now be the 4th largest country in the EU and I think the strongest opponent to Britain negotiating treaties in the same vain as Switzerland and Norway.

2) The idea that the EU will roll over and give the UK the terms they want is laughably naive. I gave Scotland 5 years before they succeed from the Union and the idea of Irish reunification, once thought impossible, is now very much on the table. In fact Dublin might need Belfast to handle the load of what is going to come Ireland's way.

3) This greatly damages the chance of the Canada-EU trade agreement being ratified. The UK was one of its strongest proponents.

4) Speaking of Canada and the anglosphere, this is a huge win in the long term for Ireland. Now instead of Britain being Canada/Australia/USA's point of entry into the common market, it will be Dublin. Relations between Canada and France have never been the same since 1967.

5) London is going to suffer

6) This is a vote and result that tears at the fabric of the interconnected Western World. It isolates one of the great cities.

7) I just don't understand how nothing is preferable to imperfection and I hate to see what the EU will look like without the United Kingdom acting as a balance to the Franco-German alliance.

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"Frexit" is just some BS story made up by UKIP who've got a victory through barefaced lying and don't know what to do with it.

France is one of the founding members of the EEC/EU with Germany and Benelux and won't hold any kind of referendum any time soon.

Believe you me.......

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5) London is going to suffer

6) This is a vote and result that tears at the fabric of the interconnected Western World. It isolates one of the great cities.

While I don't want to ignore the damage and risk, saying that London will now be isolated in the world is not accurate. New York does not have freedom of movement with any country other than its domestic market and it has no trouble attracting professionals from all over the world. Merely leaving the EU does not in any way doom London or the UK, even if it does mean short term uncertainty and loss in financial markets.

The question is how nasty does the EU want to make the divorce? If they really want to they can make UK-Europe trade disappear entirely. But are the countries of Europe really willing to embargo or fight a tariff war with the UK, especially when their own economies are circling in the toilet?

Edited by Nacre
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