arwebb Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 arwebb; "I have seen and read, mostly via social media, some very disturbing things in the last 24 hours. I live and work in an area of high migration, particularly from Eastern Europe. I hope and pray this doesn't turn really ugly." This is the only incident as yet reported by the BBC news website. Hoping it will be the only one. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-36633388 Some pretty unpleasant stuff from the EDL in Newcastle yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) You may think that, but some on the Leave side, as the below video shows, would argue that point. This is just one of the areas where the Leave campaign's promises have fallen apart. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894 First of all I would like to thank you that you are talking about this issue with me - and I am very grateful! It helps me to understand what happened and what is going on now... I think it is good when the "European Side" is explained to the UK people also: Did you see the press conference with Mrs Merkel and Mr. Seehofer? She said something like: "Let the British government tell us what it wants and then we 27 states will decide if we can agree on that or not" - which could be perfect, when the UK wants exactly what the EU wants, but when there is something in it, what one single state of the EU doesn't want is the UK out - since that are the contracts of the EU If e.g. Poland or Spain says "No" - the UK is out of the common market - when one Spanish politician gets the idea to say: if you want to have access to the common market than we want that Spain and the UK rule together over Gibraltar - and nobody can force them not to say "No"... At the moment it can't work like this, since the UK is a complete member of the EU, when they start "Article 50" it is over... I have the impression that this Tory politician has no clue how the EU works - and that he will find the UK very soon in a situation he didn't want. Edited June 26, 2016 by Citius Altius Fortius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 It has already started - did you read what is going on in the UK? It is like Germany 1938 before the Reichskristallnacht - people are 'attacked' by white British racists. Polish families are threatened or a waitress from an Eastern EU-state is asked: "why she is laughing - she should pack as fast as possible"? That is just awful and these Brexit-morons opened the box of pandora and I wonder how the Tory party will handle that - it is a disaster and I wouldn't be astonished when we see more casualties than Cox soon... The Brexiters just opened the box much wider, but it had already been opened a little by the situation in Greece, by the feeble aftermath of the Scottish independence referendum, by the situation in Ukraine ... Politicians are going to have to deal with the reality that they can have a growing gap between "haves" and "have nots" OR harmony between ethnic groups in areas of high migration. Not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 This is a very interesting article from Nick Clegg - published the day before the referendum...It is "frightening" how much his prediction became true...Nick Clegg: what you will wake up to if we vote to Leave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Breaking news line from the BBC tonight - "Boris Johnson says UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with EU following referendum result." I guess this is in his Telegraph column tomorrow, but that seems to fly in the face of what he has spent the last four months campaigning for as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 The Brexiters just opened the box much wider, but it had already been opened a little by the situation in Greece, by the feeble aftermath of the Scottish independence referendum, by the situation in Ukraine ... Politicians are going to have to deal with the reality that they can have a growing gap between "haves" and "have nots" OR harmony between ethnic groups in areas of high migration. Not both. It is not only the problem in areas of high migration - it is a problem of the "globalization" - "foreigners" don't need to live next to your house/flat anymore, there is the same effect, when they live thousands miles away... Due the internet/technial/communicational revolution we all are in a global competition - China think about Europe, but not about Germany, Italy or the UK - when you want to have a chance you have to work together vs our global competitors outside Europe... I do understand the fears of the people - I am afraid myself, but we can't change it - we can't turn back time... I don#t want to miss my MacPro either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Breaking news line from the BBC tonight - "Boris Johnson says UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with EU following referendum result." I guess this is in his Telegraph column tomorrow, but that seems to fly in the face of what he has spent the last four months campaigning for as well. ... isn't that exactly what he maundered in his first statement on friday morning? That sounds very old news to me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) I know he's not the most liked man in British politics but I've always thought Clegg was a decent politician. He wrote this last Wednesday before the referendum: Nick Clegg: what you will wake up to if we vote to Leave… READ: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/ Also this - from his resignation speech a year ago - is just as prescient:: Edited June 26, 2016 by Rob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Here's more of what Johnson has written in his Telegraph column. It reads to me like an extension of the theme CAF referred to, but also leaves one wondering exactly what the last four months have all been for. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Here's more of what Johnson has written in his Telegraph column. It reads to me like an extension of the theme CAF referred to, but also leaves one wondering exactly what the last four months have all been for. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037 Ridiculous. How much more backtracking can there ever be??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Way over here in NZ it's Monday morning and on news talk radio, Brexit is wall to wall. And for a pro-STAY like me the shock of the OUT support that has the same % as the UK result just leaves me flummoxed. Prominent centre-right radio hosts have jumped on the OUT bandwagon with a nasty fervour. It's exactly what CAF was discussing in his posts. There really is a new "fascist" wave of anti-immigration feeling. They are being blamed for driving up house prices, lowering wages, putting strain on schools, and annoying locals with multiple languages that a small country of English heritage simply can no longer tolerate. United States is going through this nasty new wave ultra right mind set using the soft target immigration issue. What you are seeing in UK at the moment is happening here. Has the world taken liberalisation too far? Trade wise the Prime Minister has a rather pragmatic view as New Zealand is an individual nation that negotiates trade deals and gets by just fine as a first world nation. The feeling is that UK has been an independent nation forever up till 20 years ago and the EU seen as an all overbearing doctorate ruling over national governments. It will take years to rebuild reputation and trust with Europe and with a United Kingdom potentially becoming an Untied Kingdom as an angry Scotland sets off another cescession referendum...yes the Pandora's box is well and truly open. If we need positives out of this, it would be the fact that UK will survive after a small bump. It is still very strong and in about ten years would look back and not be fussed at all...But the effect on Europe will be devestating. This is the true fear. That's what it looks like from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ridiculous. How much more backtracking can there ever be??? He's saying what the Leave's have always said... we are going to keep all he good stuff about being in the EU and get rid of the bad stuff. And, lets face it, if he negotiates that deal with the rest of the EU, Boris will be a hero in the UK and we'll wonder why everybody didn't vote Leave. But I have a sneaking suspicion that won't be the deal the EU offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) There really is a new "fascist" wave of anti-immigration feeling. They are being blamed for driving up house prices, lowering wages, putting strain on schools, and annoying locals with multiple languages that a small country of English heritage simply can no longer tolerate. United States is going through this nasty new wave ultra right mind set using the soft target immigration issue. It's not just immigration. It's the combination of 1) unemployment due to job relocation, 2) wage decreases due to competition w/ immigrants, 3) very high youth unemployment, and 4) increases in the cost of secondary education that make university unaffordable to the now unemployed or underemployed working class. It is easy for people in New Zealand, Canada, etc to criticize. But your governments don't allow uncontrolled immigration. When Canada, Australia or New Zealand allow for a quarter of their population to be migrants or the children of migrants, then you will have the right to criticize the UK or the USA. But John Key and Justin Trudeau are able to preach from a bully pulpit precisely because they don't have to deal with that problem in their own countries. Edited June 27, 2016 by Nacre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Here's more of what Johnson has written in his Telegraph column. It reads to me like an extension of the theme CAF referred to, but also leaves one wondering exactly what the last four months have all been for. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037 I think it is the same wish-wash what he has already maudered on Friday, but just two words of wish wash more... He tries to calm down the people and distract them of that he has no clue of all... On the other hand I wonder why he isn't invoking article 50 - he drivel during his leave campaign to get a Brexit vote - why does he wait? I think he recognised that he is doomed to fail = UK will stand with less in its hand after Brexit than before... Edited June 27, 2016 by Citius Altius Fortius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 It is not only the problem in areas of high migration - it is a problem of the "globalization" - "foreigners" don't need to live next to your house/flat anymore, there is the same effect, when they live thousands miles away... Due the internet/technial/communicational revolution we all are in a global competition - China think about Europe, but not about Germany, Italy or the UK - when you want to have a chance you have to work together vs our global competitors outside Europe... I do understand the fears of the people - I am afraid myself, but we can't change it - we can't turn back time... I don#t want to miss my MacPro either... The catch is, European tribalists can't do anything to rival workers in China except refuse to buy the goods they provide. Rival workers who come to European nations, on the other hand, are in the same hazardous position ethnic minorities have found themselves in throughout history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 It is easy for people in New Zealand, Canada, etc to criticize. But your governments don't allow uncontrolled immigration. When Canada, Australia or New Zealand allow for a quarter of their population to be migrants or the children of migrants, then you will have the right to criticize the UK or the USA. But John Key and Justin Trudeau are able to preach from a bully pulpit precisely because they don't have to deal with that problem in their own countries.Er actually New Zealand DOES have nearly a quarter of its population not born here. And the issues caused by this I mentioned in my previous post you just plagiarized as your own. NZ, Australia (more so) and Canada are dealing with equal issues surrounding flood immigration... And from countries that have imploded in the last decade.The issue that boils blood of everyday UK is the fact that the dictators in Brussels have imposed over the top immigration totals on them...yet as one of the biggest tax contributers, UK can't have a say. Half the countries in the EU are bludging basket cases. I have no idea why EU let them join. Perhaps the EU should recreate that "second tier" Associated members level for states that are minimal contributers? It's not fair on Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium having to contribute and now more so as a huge chunk of wealth is about to break off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower Bridge Fox Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I think if there is a general election before the leaving process is activated the voters will swing the opposite way to the referendum. my feeling are London and Scotland being dragged out the EU by the Reagen's of england isn't acceptableAlso the liberal Democrats have said they will re-join the EU if they get back in.I have signed the petition for a second referendumwhich will have four million signatures by the end of today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Oh OK! Hands up who vote OUT but really didn't think it would mater? Suddenly a "Whoops we were drunk on nationalistic pride when we voted" excuses pour in. YouTube has some absolute clangers now being posted. UK OUT...live with it. Most of England voted for it. Now live with the consequences. (You will survive on your own, but you are going to have to work hard for it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Er actually New Zealand DOES have nearly a quarter of its population not born here. And the issues caused by this I mentioned in my previous post you just plagiarized as your own. NZ, Australia (more so) and Canada are dealing with equal issues surrounding flood immigration... And from countries that have imploded in the last decade. The issue that boils blood of everyday UK is the fact that the dictators in Brussels have imposed over the top immigration totals on them...yet as one of the biggest tax contributers, UK can't have a say. Half the countries in the EU are bludging basket cases. I have no idea why EU let them join. Perhaps the EU should recreate that "second tier" Associated members level for states that are minimal contributers? It's not fair on Germany, France, Italy, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium having to contribute and now more so as a huge chunk of wealth is about to break off. I think some misconceptions about how decisions are made in that "dictatorshop" have spread until NZ...the "over the top immigration" is called "freedom of movement" and essential part of the European single market. Can't have one without the other, simply. Even Switzerland has to accept that rule. And the refugee quota system has so far been blocked because there's plenty of mainly Eastern European countries are going on in their xenophobic rant. Strange how those dictators in Brussels still depend on national governments throwing spanners in the works or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 The graph that explains everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainad Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) I think it is the same wish-wash what he has already maudered on Friday, but just two words of wish wash more... He tries to calm down the people and distract them of that he has no clue of all... On the other hand I wonder why he isn't invoking article 50 - he drivel during his leave campaign to get a Brexit vote - why does he wait? I think he recognised that he is doomed to fail = UK will stand with less in its hand after Brexit than before... The suspicion now is that Johnson fully expected Cameron to invoke Article 50 and have to deal with all the leave-making process before he left office. Instead, Cameron suddenly resigned and will have nothing more to do with it. The decision to invoke Article 50 must come from his successor who will not be appointed until September at the earliest. If,as expected, it will be Johnson then the decision will fall on him and he is getting cold feet which is why he is now making all these curious, conciliatory remarks about waiting and not rushing into anything. in other words, things have not gone the way he had expected and planned for. The buck will now stop with him and he doesn't like it and is getting cold feet. All of which serves him right except that the rest of us are now going to have to suffer because of his political machinations including the innocent ones like us! Edited June 27, 2016 by Mainad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Johnson's leadership campaign has so far cost £130bn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Iceland (population somewhat smaller than the city of Liverpool) is not a member of the EU. Most of the votes for Brexit came from England. Iceland just beat England at football, without any fuss or bother. I don't think England has what it takes to survive outside the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainad Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Iceland (population somewhat smaller than the city of Liverpool) is not a member of the EU. Most of the votes for Brexit came from England. Iceland just beat England at football, without any fuss or bother. I don't think England has what it takes to survive outside the EU. Well, our football team certainly doesn't! Just the icing on the cake in a truly 'great' week for England! Edited June 27, 2016 by Mainad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Iceland (population somewhat smaller than the city of Liverpool) is not a member of the EU. Most of the votes for Brexit came from England. Iceland just beat England at football, without any fuss or bother. I don't think England has what it takes to survive outside the EU. But...Wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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