Russian Doping Scandal = BIG Olympic Threat

[TheOtherRob]

[TheOtherRob]

So, in short the IOC says:

No blanket ban (so far), disciplinary proceedings against named officials, no Rio accreditation for Ministry of Sport staff, full reanalysis of Russian athletes' Sochi samples, the IOC is asking Winter sports to find new hosts for any future events planned in Russia, and the IOC is withdrawing its support for the proposed 2019 European Games which looked like they were going to be held in Russia.

They're awaiting the CAS verdict on the IAAF's ban before deciding if a blanket ban is legal.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

So, in short the IOC says:

full reanalysis of Russian athletes' Sochi samples,

Wasn't said in the report, that the secret service helped that samples were exchanged in Sochi? Or did I get something wrong? A reanalysis would be futile, when the samples were exchanged...

[TheOtherRob]

Yeah, I wondered about that as well.

[baron-pierreIV]

What about 2018? Is that still happening, then?? Who can fill in quickly? Germany? France?

[Mr Tickle]

Are they at risk of loosing the World Cup?

[Quaker2001]

What about 2018? Is that still happening, then?? Who can fill in quickly? Germany? France?

Are they at risk of loosing the World Cup?

Until FIFA starts chirping about it, yes the 2018 World Cup is still on as scheduled. Not sure how quickly another country could step in as host, but considering the gigantic shitshow that is FIFA, may or may not be high on their priority list to try and deal with Russia and try to figure out what they can do there.

[Nacre]

They are not going quite far enough, IMO. Some form of sanction needs to be made against Russia itself rather than scapegoating a few officials.

Perhaps they could retroactively change the Russian athletes at Sochi as having competed under the IOC's flag, and thus strip Russia of all of its medals won in 2014. The athletes would be able to keep their medals while the country running the doping program would be punished.

[baron-pierreIV]

They are not going quite far enough, IMO. Some form of sanction needs to be made against Russia itself rather than scapegoating a few officials.

Perhaps they could retroactively change the Russian athletes at Sochi as having competed under the IOC's flag, and thus strip Russia of all of its medals won in 2014. The athletes would be able to keep their medals while the country running the doping program would be punished.

But why? The athletes were part of the cheating; and thus those medals were tainted. And what about the 4th placers who then should've been on the podium? Plus, there's the whole redistribution of the medals -- unless they've already been engraved.

That's why I say, hold off on the medals and winners for OK...I used to say 8 years; maybe now 4. Because if the tainted 2014 athletes return their golds to the IOC; then so do the silver and bronze medalists in order for the new G-S-B winners to get their new medals. Ay-yay-yay.

But it all makes for good conversation and conjecture in fora like the ISOH. LOL!!

[TheOtherRob]

As an absolute minimum Russians should enter under a neutral flag in Rio.

The IOC had no problem suspending India, forcing its athletes to enter under a neutral flag in Sochi. That was for poor governance within its NOC. This is, by any measure, far worse. If there isn't to be a blanket ban on Russia and the buck is passed to IFs, the IOC should at least have the balls to stop the Russian flag being flown in Rio.

[StefanMUC]

No backbone IOC, but not surprising. I doubt most IFs have the will (and stamina) to do what IAAF did. and even there, it's not certain the CAS will uphold the decision.

Competing under neutral flag wouldn't solve anything anyway because

1) the drugged athletes would still take medals/results from (hopefully) clean ones

2) they would still come home as national heroes, with Vlad giving them a nice premium

Anyway, never wrong to watch this in this context:

[Citius Altius Fortius]

We have to keep in mind that many Russian officials are members in the boards of the different sport federations - the IOC is in a dilemma it has to ban Russia due it "zero tolerance" politics toward doping, but at the same time it can't affront Russia at the same time... Therefore the delay of the decision about a ban after the CAS verdict about the IAAF ban of Russian athletes...

 

[phandrosis]

In reality, it's too close to the games to try and sort through all the athletes that will participate from Russia to make sure none of them have doped without it being reported or properly detected. I personally think that Russia as a nation deserves the blanked ban from the games, including the next winter games since many winter sports are involved as well. If they get mad and want to make their own goodwill games with North Korea again, all the best.

[jawnbc]

They'll announce something Thursday or Friday. But think they should be banned from Rio entirely. 

[Nacre]

In reality, it's too close to the games to try and sort through all the athletes that will participate from Russia to make sure none of them have doped without it being reported or properly detected. I personally think that Russia as a nation deserves the blanked ban from the games, including the next winter games since many winter sports are involved as well. If they get mad and want to make their own goodwill games with North Korea again, all the best.

 

The difference between then and now is that the western world was perfectly willing to give the IOC what it wanted without Soviet help.

 

Today the situation is reversed. The IOC and federations need the dictatorships. Western countries have opted for internationalism over national interest and are weakening their economies. (I am not saying that it is a bad thing. Just that it has happened for better or for worse.) Fewer and fewer democratic cities and countries are willing to work with the IOC.

 

Meanwhile China, Russia, Azerbaijan, the UAE, etc are willing to spend on sports. The IOC needs these corrupt bastards to support their vanity projects.

[Nemo]

I don't think it would be appropriate yup completely ban Russia from the Rio games, not this late. But I do think that Russia should be suspended and banned from competing in 2018.

As for the 2018 World Cup, I don't think Russia can be trusted to host the event. It would be I the best interest for FIFA (especial during their own corruption scandal) to move the World Cup else where. Possibly the U.S.or Germany could step in to host.

[Faster]

I think the IOC is waiting to hear from CAS. If CAS upholds the IAAF's suspension, which I think it will. The IOC will ban Russia from the 20 sports implicated in the report. 

[StefanMUC]

The difference between then and now is that the western world was perfectly willing to give the IOC what it wanted without Soviet help.

Today the situation is reversed. The IOC and federations need the dictatorships. Western countries have opted for internationalism over national interest and are weakening their economies. (I am not saying that it is a bad thing. Just that it has happened for better or for worse.) Fewer and fewer democratic cities and countries are willing to work with the IOC.

Meanwhile China, Russia, Azerbaijan, the UAE, etc are willing to spend on sports. The IOC needs these corrupt bastards to support their vanity projects.

I think a strict action (= ban) on Russia could easily help improving the IOC's credibility in many Western countries. Lukewarm decisions like today will only fuel anti-Olympics movements. Why should the people in a referendum anywhere wish to vote for bidding to host a congress of cheats? That'll be the line of argumentation, and it won't be wrong.

Bach hasn't understood that he's destroying the brand like this.

[Nemo]

I think a strict action (= ban) on Russia could easily help improving the IOC's credibility in many Western countries. Lukewarm decisions like today will only fuel anti-Olympics movements. Why should the people in a referendum anywhere wish to vote for bidding to host a congress of cheats? That'll be the line of argumentation, and it won't be wrong.

Bach hasn't understood that he's destroying the brand like this.

 

That's a really good point. I think Bach's approach has been too PC ever since he took office. He needs to show he as a backbone

[Dylanlip]

Aaaaand CAS has opened the floodgates:

Quote

CAS upholds ban of Russian track and field team from Rio

The Court of Arbitration for Sport announced on Thursday that it has rejected the claims and appeal of the Russian Olympic Committee and 68 athletes who had challenged a ban from the track federation that would keep the country from competing in Rio.

The ROC and 68 athletes asked CAS to review the validity and enforceability of an International Association of Athletics Federation rule change to allow some Russian athletes to apply for exceptional eligibility to compete in Rio. That decision came in June as the IAAF extended a ban that will keep Russia from sending a track and field team to the Olympics.

The three-person CAS panel unanimously upheld an IAAF rule change that would allow some Russian athletes to compete in Rio so long as they could demonstrate their anti-doping record. Because the national federation (RUSAF) is suspended from IAAF membership, athletes who don’t qualify under that rule change are ineligible to compete in Rio, the panel said.

“While we are thankful that our rules and our power to uphold our rules and the anti-doping code have been supported, this is not a day for triumphant statements. I didn’t come into this sport to stop athletes from competing,” IAAF’s president Sebastien Coe said in a statement. “It is our federation’s instinctive desire to include, not exclude. Beyond Rio the IAAF Taskforce will continue to work with Russia to establish a clean safe environment for its athletes so that its federation and team can return to international recognition and competition."

The CAS decision likely gives the IOC framework for how it could proceed as it considers a full ban of Russian athletes, but, whatever decision it would make must come quickly, as the Games open on Aug. 5.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/rio-2016/2016/07/21/cas-upholds-ban-russian-track-and-field-team-rio/87375964/

Let the federation bans and (hopeful) IOC ban commence!

[StefanMUC]

Now I'm curious to see which tricks Bach will play to avoid a complete ban. The IFs still in favour of Russian participation (eg Judo, Table Tennis...) apparently don't mind having their Rio results stained from the start.

[Faster]

Was judo implicated?

Nenad Lalovic's response was interesting. You would think that a Serbian would be fairly pro-Russian but he pretty much said he would support the IOC decision and that a total ban wasn't a bad thing.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

41 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Now I'm curious to see which tricks Bach will play to avoid a complete ban. The IFs still in favour of Russian participation (eg Judo, Table Tennis...) apparently don't mind having their Rio results stained from the start.

This is a real test of Mr Bach's leadership. Should the IOC not completely ban the entire Russian NOC (especially given the extent, severity and duration of the state-authorized and -commissioned doping of athletes), the entire Olympic Movement loses all credibility. Whilst the Russians will obviously whine in case they are banned (and, as per usual, blame everything on Western industrialized democracies), a ban of the Russian delegation is the only credible measure that can restore some of the public trust that has been lost under Messrs Samaranch and Rogge.

The alternative, if there is a dodgy compromise, would feel like a very hard slap against clean athletes. Under such circumstances (and yes, also given the fact that there is already a de facto Cold War going on with Russia over Crimea, its aggressive foreign policy and Putin's authoritarianism at home), Western NOCs should certainly seriously consider boycotting the Rio Games. What may also help in coming to such an admittedly harsh conclusion? The shambles that Rio is becoming with every passing day. The news coming out of Rio doesn't sound like the standard whining before each Olympic Games about venues not being ready: There is an entire nation against these Games, which have devolved into a bread-and-circuses festival for the loathed Brazilian elites, assorted IOC officials and well-to-do sports spectators from across the world - not to speak of a major health crisis, economic instability, the squalor and lack of security in parts of Rio and, what will weigh even more heavily this time the disproportionate privileges enjoyed by the Olympic Movement (such as the Olympic Lanes, the lopsided allocation of profits and sponsorship money).

Maybe Rio just needs to fail in order for the entire Olympic Movement to thrive. Not to sound like Rush Limbaugh here (and I despise that man): But looking at this mess, I hope Rio 2016 fails spectacularly.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

PS: Which is completely distinct from wanting Brazil to do badly. Of course not! I like the Brazilian people and wish them well...but their elites (and the Olympic Movement) need to learn that these Games have to become much closer to the people they want as consumers/spectators/enthusiastic fans. So when I say "Rio 2016", I don't mean Rio de Janeiro - the city. I mean the grand plans that have (as seems to be the case) not benefited substantial parts of the population in Rio, besides the already well-to-do upper echelons of Brazilian society. Only a fresh start can restore the integrity of the Olympic Games.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

On 19/07/2016 at 5:25 PM, baron-pierreIV said:

What about 2018? Is that still happening, then?? Who can fill in quickly? Germany? France?

Qatar is a more obvious candidate for elimination right now...rife with corruption, in an insecure region of the world and with no footballing tradition whatsoever.