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Russian Doping Scandal = BIG Olympic Threat

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11 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

No.  The IOC essentially punted responsibility for this to the IF's.  They can handle this how they see fit.  The IOC could have made the statement themselves and said the whole of Russia is banned.  Instead, they basically said "we don't want to deal with this, we'll let others take care of this."  They're asking the IF's to handle this in a matter of just a couple of weeks, so given that timeframe, it's more than likely that a few dirty athletes will slip through the cracks and be competing in Rio.  And that means every time there's a Russian in a competition, especially if that athlete does well, there will automatically be suspicion.

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This is how I thought it would play out.  #1 - A blanket ban is too punitive (even for the so-called "innocent" ones).  #2 - The IFs would have to scramble really hard to fill the spots filled by Russian teams (specially in Volleyball where they have had very rigorous qualifying rounds -- and many volleyball players from other countries now standing up for their Russian counterparts).  I think the decision is a right one.  

And the IOC still hasn't announced how they would deal with PyongChang 2018.  I think they are reserving that to hit Russia harder.  Russia's non-appearance there PLUS the expungement of the 2014 records will be even more embarrassing for Muddah-f*cka Russia.  

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The focus on this MESS takes the heat off the other nations and athletes who's doping programs are more sophisticated or overlooked so far.

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British IOC member Adam Pengilly tells BBC he estimates 95% of Russian team will be in Rio.

(presumably that's excluding the already excluded athletics team)

Edited by Rob.

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1 minute ago, LDOG said:

^ i.e. the USA.

Of course the most powerful nation probably has the most secretive and effective drug program!

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3 minutes ago, Rob. said:

British IOC member Adam Pengilly tells BBC he estimates 95% of Russian team will be in Rio.

(presumably that's excluding the already excluded athletics team)

...nice crack down. I have to think this will cause some sort of longer term outrage and controversy that will tarnish the Olympics more that they already are going forward. LA24 get out now.

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34 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

This is how I thought it would play out.  #1 - A blanket ban is too punitive (even for the so-called "innocent" ones).  #2 - The IFs would have to scramble really hard to fill the spots filled by Russian teams (specially in Volleyball where they have had very rigorous qualifying rounds -- and many volleyball players from other countries now standing up for their Russian counterparts).  I think the decision is a right one.  

And the IOC still hasn't announced how they would deal with PyongChang 2018.  I think they are reserving that to hit Russia harder.  Russia's non-appearance there PLUS the expungement of the 2014 records will be even more embarrassing for Muddah-f*cka Russia.  

The IOC is in a no-win situation here (for which they only have themselves to blame.. what else is new) where there's not a lot of middle ground between a blanket ban and what they did.  I agree that letting the federations handle this is probably the way to go, but having this all go down within 2 weeks of the Olympics is a problem for everyone and it just looks bad for the IOC that they're essentially punting responsibility of this.  How do you strike the balance in a team sport like volleyball where you have a potentially dirty team in the competition and being able to replace them so close to the Olympics?  So yea, maybe it is the right decision, but it still puts the IOC in a negative light moreso than they already are.  For a change, FIFA almost has to be snickering at the IOC's ineptitude.  That is of course until they realize who is hosting the next World Cup.

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I just don't think the Americans could get away with it. There is just too much media attention and a 'whistleblower' mentality in the USA to ever successfully get away with a large scale doping program. Look at all the test fails over the years, and USADA's pursuit of Lance Armstrong. Individually there are probably a good number of Americans that dope, but never could it be institutionalized or government controlled.

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31 minutes ago, paul said:

The focus on this MESS takes the heat off the other nations and athletes who's doping programs are more sophisticated or overlooked so far.

Hey, if you can cheat and get away with it, is it really cheating?!

Obviously the answer is yes and this will lead to a cloud of suspicion over everyone

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45 minutes ago, paul said:

The focus on this MESS takes the heat off the other nations and athletes who's doping programs are more sophisticated or overlooked so far.

*Cough* Jamaica! *Cough* China!* Cough*

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4 minutes ago, plusbrilliantsexploits said:

*Cough* Jamaica! *Cough* China!* Cough*

*Cough* Gatlin *Cough* Merritt * Cough*

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It's just a phantom discussion with which the Russians (and their sympathizers across the world) try to distract from the Russian Federation's own behaviour.

On a related note, however, I wonder what this decision will mean for the day-to-day dynamics in the Olympic Village during Rio 2016. I mean, usually it's supposed to be all respectful and hunky-dory. But I suspect that the regard for the Russian delegation (regardless of innocence) is likely to be very cold, especially from Western nations. So much for the Olympic Games promoting a better understanding among the peoples of the world. And I suspect that when Usain Bolt wins his inevitable third consecutive gold medal in the 100 metres, there will be more than one journalist and sports fan who will not unquestioningly celebrate this feat without mentioning the atrociously deficient anti-doping regime in Jamaica. I suspect that Mr Bach, by ducking the tough choices, may very well have begun a cataclysm and erosion of public trust that will permanently damage the Olympic brand - for all the bravado about "higher, stronger, faster".

The Olympic Games can only be saved if they become humbler - in organization, in spirit and during the actual competitions. I don't give a damn about a WR/OR being broken, as long as the competition itself is enjoyable. I suspect that it will take some time before this thinking takes root, though...

22 minutes ago, Faster said:

I just don't think the Americans could get away with it. There is just too much media attention and a 'whistleblower' mentality in the USA to ever successfully get away with a large scale doping program. Look at all the test fails over the years, and USADA's pursuit of Lance Armstrong. Individually there are probably a good number of Americans that dope, but never could it be institutionalized or government controlled.

 

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2 minutes ago, LDOG said:

*Cough* Gatlin *Cough* Merritt * Cough*

...we have a drug for that.

WjI5dlphUzUzWVd4dFlYSjBhVzFoWjJWekxtTnZi

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15 minutes ago, LDOG said:

*Cough* Gatlin *Cough* Merritt * Cough*

Well, that's another aspect of this fudge. The IOC has today said any previously doped Russian athletes can't compete even if they've served their punishment. Now, I agree previously doped athletes shouldn't have the honour of being selected for the Olympics but why shouldn't that also apply to the likes of Gatlin?

And when the BOA tried to defend their decision not to select Dwain Chambers for the Olympics they were told it's legally impossible to ban athletes for good from the Olympics and he had to be in the team. I don't understand how this decision about banning previous dopers really punishes Russia or how it is legally sound based on the precedent from the Chambers case.

 

Edited by Rob.

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Before you all fight who else did it, let's remind ourselves of one thing:

The McLaren report made it clear that Russian secret service undermined the integrity of the Sochi Games by its actions. Not sure about the exact wording of the report, but that was really obvious from it.

The IOC as "proprietor" of these Games today waived its right to take the only appropriate action, i.e. ban that country from Rio after staining its major brand like that.

Bach & Co. may not even realise how much they've undermined the IOC today - effectively, a power shift to the IFs and people like Vizer who looked dead in the water after the SpirtsAccord fiasco last year.

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I think the anti-doping controls in Rio are going to be very biased against Russians after this scandal. Putting them under a lens is the least thing they could do after this embarassment. 

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8 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

I think the anti-doping controls in Rio are going to be very biased against Russians after this scandal. Putting them under a lens is the least thing they could do after this embarassment. 

 

But unless they change it, testing is supposed to be for the medal winners and randomly for the others.  

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41 minutes ago, Rob. said:

Well, that's another aspect of this fudge. The IOC has today said any previously doped Russian athletes can't compete even if they've served their punishment. Now, I agree previously doped athletes shouldn't have the honour of being selected for the Olympics but why shouldn't that also apply to the likes of Gatlin?

And when the BOA tried to defend their decision not to select Dwain Chambers for the Olympics they were told it's legally impossible to ban athletes for good from the Olympics and he had to be in the team. I don't understand how this decision about banning previous dopers really punishes Russia or how it is legally sound based on the precedent from the Chambers case.

The issue there is whether or not there was a greater presence involved with Gaitlin and his actions involving doping.  It's the reason we look at cyclists from the last decade the way we do because so many of them conspired together rather than acting on their own.  That's why someone like Gaitlin might get a second chance whereas the Russians may not.  It's definitely a slippery slope, but again, it's where the line is being blurred over what is the appropriate punishment and what is too harsh that it potentially hurts innocent athletes.  And PBE is right to the extent the the IOC may or may not be responsible for creating this culture where athletes believe it's acceptable to cheat in order to gain greater glory and take the risk of getting caught.  As a baseball fan here in the States, it's 1 of the issues that MLB has where someone can use PEDs, get caught, and then resume their career and make millions of dollars as if it's ancient history.  That's what the IOC needs to stamp out here, because this is very much in the present.

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45 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

The issue there is whether or not there was a greater presence involved with Gaitlin and his actions involving doping.  It's the reason we look at cyclists from the last decade the way we do because so many of them conspired together rather than acting on their own.  That's why someone like Gaitlin might get a second chance whereas the Russians may not.  It's definitely a slippery slope, but again, it's where the line is being blurred over what is the appropriate punishment and what is too harsh that it potentially hurts innocent athletes.  And PBE is right to the extent the the IOC may or may not be responsible for creating this culture where athletes believe it's acceptable to cheat in order to gain greater glory and take the risk of getting caught.  As a baseball fan here in the States, it's 1 of the issues that MLB has where someone can use PEDs, get caught, and then resume their career and make millions of dollars as if it's ancient history.  That's what the IOC needs to stamp out here, because this is very much in the present.

But the IOC can't prevent that. Their hands are tied. For once I sympathise with them.

The Chambers case four years ago went to CAS and they decided that under WADA's code athletes cannot be sanctioned beyond their initial punishment. As a signatory to the WADA code the British selectors had to select Dwain Chambers. And the WADA code itself is written in this way so as to comply with international laws on workers' rights. Their hands are tied as well. Lifetime bans or Olympics bans beyond already served punishments are simply not legal. But the IOC has weirdly ignored a decade of legal precedent today.

I don't get it.

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Twelve days out from the start of what should be the greatest sporting show on Earth, the Olympic movement is in an absolute mess tonight. In taking the decision it did today, the IOC's executive board, in my view, failed in its duties to provide clear leadership to Olympic sport and to protect those athletes who seek to compete within its auspices honestly and cleanly. While it may, at first glance, appear that they've been quite tough with Russia, it seems increasingly clear that, by abdicating their responsibility, they have only added to the confusion. I expect the fudge they have attempted to create to unravel during the coming days and, sadly, the implications of this decision to be felt throughout the whole of the competition in Rio. As someone who had the privilege of spending time in London four years ago, I know how angry I would have been if a decision like this had been made on the eve of those Games. I would not blame any Brazilian from feeling the same way now.

The biggest risk in all this is not short-term, but long-term. The IOC had the chance today to take a real and meaningful stand against doping. It has not done that and it will be a long time for the full effects of that decision to become apparent. Personally, I regard the use of performance-enhancing drugs in sport, as long as there are rules against them, as a form of fraud by false representation, primarily because of the rewards that are associated with sporting success. If other forms of corrupt practice in sport can be punished criminally, as the cricket spot fixing scandal was, then doping should be too. That might be a debate for another day. All I'm sure of is that this day is a very dark one for those of us who truly care about sport and the Olympic movement.

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If the Russian government and anti-doping agency was implicated in far reaching cheating that affected many of their athletes then i think there is NO SHAME or INJUSTICE in banning all Russian athletes from competition. Although some and perhaps many athletes from Russia may be clean they have only their government to blame for their exclusion from global competition.

Now, what kind of chaos is happening in the world sport federations to try to sort this mess in days as participating athletes are traveling towards Rio? What other distractions is this causing that takes the focus off organization of this event which obviously needs the FULL attention of any participating body that can help Rio tie up many loose ends.

This is a joke, the IOC is a joke, Russia is a joke and by participation we are part of the joke. The Olympics brand as we imagined it has been dying a long slow death, this is just another footnote to it's dishonesty, desperation and decline.

...now bring on the Children Dancers segment to honor the youth of the world......real fast before somebody blows up a stadium. .

Edited by paul

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I don't think a blanket ban would have been workable. Preventing "clean" athletes their shot at the games would have been a real denial of their natural justice and would have left the field open for all kinds of legal problems ahead.

But that said, Bach and the IOC Executive Committee should have had the balls to at least apply the India precedent in their decision and insist that the IF-vetted athletes compete at Rio under the Olympic flag rather than Russia's. It would have been under the onus of the IOC then to ensure that those competing under "their" flag were irrefutably clean. As it is, this is just a compromise that muddies the waters, doesn't provide any confidence and pleases no-one (well, maybe Vlad at the moment is a bit relieved - or maybe not, he's been denied his "western conspiracy" speech).

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