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zekekelso

Russian Doping Scandal = BIG Olympic Threat

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9 hours ago, Faster said:

Speaking of doping:

Kendra Harrison breaks a dark-ages world record in a year when she has also run the co-3rd fastest of all time. When in the last 10 years only two other women have come within 8 seconds of the dark-ages record. When she couldn't even run a 12.54 at the US trials. Another Genzebe Dibaba. 

Within 8 seconds?  Try again.  So someone breaks a world record and your immediate thought is let's post this in a thread about doping.  That's really f***ing stupid.  That's not a logical leap.

1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

This is where we are in Track and Field, and the Russian doping scandal is part of the problem. There's tons of evidence that not only does doping work, but you can get away with it. Just because you've passed some tests means nothing. 

Any exceptionally fast time is suspicious. And when it seemingly comes out of nowhere? That's plenty of basis for an accusation. Fair? Nope. Neither is banning the entire Russian team. But that's where we are. 

Psst.. you might want to check out Harrison's run in the Diamond League in Eugene a couple of months ago..

  She ran a 12.24 there.  So no, this absolutely did not come out of nowhere.  I don't seem to recall anyone accusing her of doping after that run.  But now she runs .04 faster (with a slight tailwind) and because it's a world record, we're NOW supposed to be suspicious?  Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up.

No doubt track & field, both past and present, has been filled with drug cheats.  Some who got away with it and others not so much.  You want to be suspicious of everyone, that's understandable.  Don't be the guy who sees "WR" flash next to someone's time and jump to post on the Internet and question whether she's clean or not.  Yes, that's a horrendous logical leap for the same reason you brought up.. if she was doping, how come she didn't come through when it mattered the most instead of now where maybe the pressure is off and it's easier for her to run fast.

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59 minutes ago, Faster said:

When you break a record from a time of known rampant doping, there is always going to be suspicion. With how doping is being conducted now, it makes it even more suspicious when you can't even run an average time at a meet you will get tested at, compared to beating a 21 year old world record that no one has touched. This falls into the same category of Dibaba breaking a Ma's Army record a few months ago. When you beat a doped record, being doped to do it is not exactly a logical leap.

I was gonna mention this, if she could get away doping, why would she have her worst meet of the year at Trials? A year, in fact, where she dominated her field like no other.

 

She was CRUSHED when she didn't make the Olympi team. And I'm sure that definitely fueled her record-breaking run.

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4 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

I think that headline is a bit premature.

 

They place a "high level source" within the IOC

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52 minutes ago, intoronto said:

 

They place a "high level source" within the IOC

The headline is in the past tense.  The story is in the future tense.  Even if this is all but assured of happening, it hasn't happened yet.

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7 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Within 8 seconds?  Try again.  So someone breaks a world record and your immediate thought is let's post this in a thread about doping.  That's really f***ing stupid.  That's not a logical leap.

Psst.. you might want to check out Harrison's run in the Diamond League in Eugene a couple of months ago..

  She ran a 12.24 there.  So no, this absolutely did not come out of nowhere.  I don't seem to recall anyone accusing her of doping after that run.  But now she runs .04 faster (with a slight tailwind) and because it's a world record, we're NOW supposed to be suspicious?  Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up.

No doubt track & field, both past and present, has been filled with drug cheats.  Some who got away with it and others not so much.  You want to be suspicious of everyone, that's understandable.  Don't be the guy who sees "WR" flash next to someone's time and jump to post on the Internet and question whether she's clean or not.  Yes, that's a horrendous logical leap for the same reason you brought up.. if she was doping, how come she didn't come through when it mattered the most instead of now where maybe the pressure is off and it's easier for her to run fast.

It wouldn't be suspicious if this was a record that is routinely challenged. It is not. Half of the top 10 all-time are still held by runners in the 80's from the Eastern Block. 

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7 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Within 8 seconds?  Try again.  So someone breaks a world record and your immediate thought is let's post this in a thread about doping.  That's really f***ing stupid.  That's not a logical leap.

Psst.. you might want to check out Harrison's run in the Diamond League in Eugene a couple of months ago..

  She ran a 12.24 there.  So no, this absolutely did not come out of nowhere.  I don't seem to recall anyone accusing her of doping after that run.  But now she runs .04 faster (with a slight tailwind) and because it's a world record, we're NOW supposed to be suspicious?  Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up.

No doubt track & field, both past and present, has been filled with drug cheats.  Some who got away with it and others not so much.  You want to be suspicious of everyone, that's understandable.  Don't be the guy who sees "WR" flash next to someone's time and jump to post on the Internet and question whether she's clean or not.  Yes, that's a horrendous logical leap for the same reason you brought up.. if she was doping, how come she didn't come through when it mattered the most instead of now where maybe the pressure is off and it's easier for her to run fast.

7 of the top 10 times in the 100m hurdles were ran in the 80's by Eastern Block athletes. This record hasn't be seriously under threat since 1989. 27 years ago. Only Sally Pearson and Brianna Rollins have come have come anywhere near the time in the last 10 years. Pearson by 7 seconds, Rollins by 5. When a record is that unchallenged and all of a sudden it gets approached, then broken. It raised red flags. With the world of microdosing and blood doping, there is always going to be suspicion. Just like when Schippers ran the 3rd fastest time in the 200m last year, it raised a lot of suspicion. And there is a lot of suspicion around Genzebe Dibaba. 

 

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8 hours ago, Faster said:

When you break a record from a time of known rampant doping, there is always going to be suspicion. With how doping is being conducted now, it makes it even more suspicious when you can't even run an average time at a meet you will get tested at, compared to beating a 21 year old world record that no one has touched. This falls into the same category of Dibaba breaking a Ma's Army record a few months ago. When you beat a doped record, being doped to do it is not exactly a logical leap.

Um yeah, again.There's suspicion and there's implied accusation. You did the latter.

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OK, so it looks like it will be a total BAN (except for those outside-Russia-based athletes of which there are only 2 or 3).  Oh boy, great break for all the 4th placers in all the qualifying heats.  

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Update.

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4 hours ago, Faster said:

It wouldn't be suspicious if this was a record that is routinely challenged. It is not. Half of the top 10 all-time are still held by runners in the 80's from the Eastern Block. 

 

3 hours ago, Faster said:

7 of the top 10 times in the 100m hurdles were ran in the 80's by Eastern Block athletes. This record hasn't be seriously under threat since 1989. 27 years ago. Only Sally Pearson and Brianna Rollins have come have come anywhere near the time in the last 10 years. Pearson by 7 seconds, Rollins by 5. When a record is that unchallenged and all of a sudden it gets approached, then broken. It raised red flags. With the world of microdosing and blood doping, there is always going to be suspicion. Just like when Schippers ran the 3rd fastest time in the 200m last year, it raised a lot of suspicion. And there is a lot of suspicion around Genzebe Dibaba. 

 

JFC, learn your units of time, please.  Sally Pearson is not 7 seconds off the world record.  That's .07 seconds.  Pretty big difference in a race that lasts less than 13 seconds at the world class level.

Okay, so there's suspicion.  That's natural in any sport that's been tainted by doping (hello, baseball), but again, you were the one who brought this up here because it was a world record.  Again, I don't seem to recall you raising suspicion when she ran 12.24 back in May.  And I'm betting if she ran 12.22 here instead of 12.20, this wouldn't have crossed your mind.  Yet that .02 is the difference between you probably having no opinion on Harrison whatsoever and you suspicious and pretty accusatory that she could be doping as if that's the most logical explanation.  That's not a logical leap.  That's called bias.  It's a logical fail is what it is because you're assuming the worst since how else could anyone beat a record held by dirty athletes.  Come on.

You talk about no one having come close to the record.. she beat it by literally the smallest margin possible.  I assume based on all this you think Micahel Johnson was doping when he beat the 200 world record in `96 and beat it by a lot?  Or Usain Bolt who ran faster than all the drug cheats of the 80s and 90s after having barely been on the scene in the 100 before 2008 when his previous best time wasn't even under 10 seconds?  The hurdles is a very technical race that goes beyond strength and endurance.  Suspect her of cheating all you want, but don't give us this bullshit that because someone else broke an old world record and was connected to doping that we should automatically ask the question here.  Give us something more than your disbelief at how fast she can run (and don't bring up the trails.. even the best athletes in the world can have a bad day, especially under pressure) as your basis for accusing her of cheating.

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Seen other sources saying IOC will today institute the same ban as the IAAF banning all Russians except those tested under foreign systems and even these will only be allowed to compete under the Olympic flag. 

Edited by Rob.

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This stinks!!!! Bach has no balls. I'm expecting him to be a one term president. 

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With this one cowardly decision Bach's tenure as IOC President has to be considered a failure.

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Totally! This was bach's chance to define his legacy and passed it on to the IF's. 

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It was predictable that the IOC wouldn't ban a whole country due doping completely - but it is a ban through the back door, since every participating Russian athlete will have to prove that he/she wasn't tested by the Russian Drug Agency ( I wonder how many Russian athletes were suddenly tested by the Belorussian or Azerbaijan drug agency?)

 

Edited by Citius Altius Fortius

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I don't trust anything Russia is saying. They're trying to deceive the world. 

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9 minutes ago, Citius Altius Fortius said:

It was predictable that the IOC wouldn't ban a whole country completely - but it is a ban through the back door, since every participating Russian athlete will have to prove that he/she wasn't tested by the Russian Drug Agency ( I wonder how many Russian athletes were suddenly tested by the Belorussian or Azerbaijan drug agency?}

That isn't a ban through the back door. As far as I can see it's a huge a loophole which dirty athletes who were doped up out of competition will be able to get around easily. Bach obviously cares more about his friendship with Putin than anything else. I guess it'll be up to individual federations now to determine which sports are worth watching in Rio.

Edited by Rob.
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8 minutes ago, Rob. said:

With this one cowardly decision Bach's tenure as IOC President has to be considered a failure.

An avowal of failure and a complete surrender to the likes of Vladimir Putin: The decision to not impose the well-deserved blanket ban on the delegation from the Russian Federation just proves that connections appear to talk louder in the International Olympic Committee than ideals. As I had suspected before his election, Thomas Bach is yet another apparatchik without visions, integrity or desires to genuinely enact a root-and-branch reform of the Olympic Movement. At this rate, even Gianni Infantino of FIFA deserves more praise (though some of his actions are, well, also questionable)...What is to distinguish Bach from the feckless Avery Brundage (with his anti-Semitic tendencies and stubborn refusal to countenance a change to the antiquated adherence to amateurism) and the lacklustre Lord Kilanin (who undermined the Olympic Movement through his bad handling of the political controversies in Montréal 1976 and his lack of engagement)? Bach too only seems to stubbornly stick to "business as usual" at the IOC.

Being German, I have been able to follow the press coverage of his tenure quite closely. Other than the uncritical public broadcasters (which are dependent on the IOC for TV rights), there has been plenty of criticism of this fellow citizen of ours. Public sentiment in Germany has decisively turned against the hosting of Olympic Games - and, quite frankly, as long as the iron-cast bureaucrats à la Bach are in charge, the Olympic Movement will remain and reinforce its reputation for overladen bureaucracy, profilgacy, overspending, architectural excesses and disrespect for the needs of local communities.

Seriously, I'm so angry at this lack of respect for clean athletes and those coaches who encourage their charges to compete fairly. And that doesn't even start to consider the manner in which the Lords of the Rings have stabbed Messrs Coe and Craven, as well as WADA, in the back. Unbelievable and brazen disregard for enforcement.

There is a proverb in German: "Der Ehrliche ist der Dumme" ("The honest one is the stupid one"). Pretty much sums up the fatal signal sent by Mr Bach. After this, I genuinely hope that Rio 2016 ends in a massive failure. The International Olympic Committee deserves no better. 

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1 minute ago, Rob. said:

That isn't a ban through the back door. It's a loophole which even dirty athletes who were doped up out of competition will be able to get around. Back obviously cares more about his friendship with Putin than anything else. I guess it'll be up to individual federations now to determine which sports are worth watching in Rio.

Newspapers say something different here - all Russian athletes, who were involved in drug scandals are not allowed to go to Rio...

It was predictable that the decision if Russian athletes are allowed to come to Rio or not has to be taken by the individual federations - since a complete ban would have been 'only' a precaution - not based on an actual drug abuse...

The question will be how the Russian athletes are able to prove that they didn't use drugs individually


Personally I think that it is a wrong decision by the IOC - it would have been better if the whole country would have been banned...

 

 

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4 minutes ago, plusbrilliantsexploits said:

After this, I genuinely hope that Rio 2016 ends in a massive failure. The International Olympic Committee deserves no better. 


That is not fair to the hosts

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Well, I guess the final nail for IOC credibility in the Western world has been put into the coffin.

Bach is a spineless coward. This is embarassing.

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Just now, Citius Altius Fortius said:


That is not fair to the hosts

Maybe not, Citius. But it appears it would be the only thing that would cause IOC members who care about the Games to reconsider their cavalier attitude towards the truth...It's a farce - and a key reason why cities like Hamburg (and metropolitan areas in other democracies) are no longer interested in the Olympic Games.

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3 minutes ago, plusbrilliantsexploits said:

Maybe not, Citius. But it appears it would be the only thing that would cause IOC members who care about the Games to reconsider their cavalier attitude towards the truth

Would it.?The fact Sochi 2014 is now a "dead" Games doesn't seem to have shaken them up enough to take any action.

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