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hektor

And then there were Five...

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I honestly don't understand how these games are "Europe's to lose". If I remember correctly, Since the USA (or North America) last hosted the Summer Olympics, Europe has hosted twice. If anything, this should be LA's to loose. Especially considering the Agenda 2020, and that Los Angeles/Southern California have an abundance of venues that can used for the games, and only needs to build a few, such as velodrome, aquatics center and white water course. The only downside that I see is that it'll be difficult to make LA's bid compact like the past decade of bids. But if they focus on being cost effective and reusing venues, LA could win easily. Basically the same concept as the 1984 Games.

How is it the same concept as 1984? Because the main stadium is the same? What LA is offering for 2024 is a lot different than 1984. Lots of new venues and a new focus on downtown that didn't exist back in 1984. As a couple of people have noted, we have Paris out there. 100 years since their country's prior Summer Olympics and in a cycle that seems to be calling out for a European city to take it.

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But you seem to forget that the USA is a country, not a continent. You cannot compare both. The USA don't have to host every other three Summer Olympics. How would you feel if China was hosting every 14 years ( ;) )? No offense, but it would get a bit boring. It's nice to see what a new, different county has to offer regarding Summer Games. We've seen what the US could do in the 80's, 90's and even early 2000's. Everyone should have their go at it. And don't worry, the US will get either 2028 or 2032. Just be a little bit more patient. It's not like you waited a century....

You sound extremely whiny when you say that. The US had the good fortune of being in the 1996 vote that was full of less than appealing candidates. Paris had the bad fortune of going up against Barcelona in 1992 and London in 2012. Good timing versus bad timing. Don't blame the United States for getting the `96 Olympics when we probably had no business being in there in the first place. Just like it's not China's fault that about a half a dozen cities that had shown interest all told the IOC they weren't interested and Beijing was all that's left.

Again, in a head to head battle of Paris versus LA for 2024, Paris should win that one. But Paris can win this on their merit without resorting to "wait your turn America, it's our turn now." That's exactly the type of argument that may just give the IOC second thoughts about whether they want Paris this time around and I hope for your sake the people in charge of Paris' bid don't let that become any part of their narrative.

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But Paris can win this on their merit without resorting to "wait your turn America, it's our turn now." That's exactly the type of argument that may just give the IOC second thoughts about whether they want Paris this time around and I hope for your sake the people in charge of Paris' bid don't let that become any part of their narrative.

Yea don't repeat what Athens did for 1996. But by all means if you feel like it, go ahead! And take a page from your bid for the 2012 games and make fun of our food or how fat we are days before voting, I'm sure LA will greatly appreciate it!

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Yea don't repeat what Athens did for 1996. But by all means if you feel like it, go ahead! And take a page from your bid for the 2012 games and make fun of our food or how fat we are days before voting, I'm sure LA will greatly appreciate it!

To quote Quaker describing someone else, "you sound extremely whiny when you say that". Of course they're not going to use the "centennial" as a main focus, if at all. They already citied as such. So stop being silly in this respect.

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Again, in a head to head battle of Paris versus LA for 2024, Paris should win that one. But Paris can win this on their merit without resorting to "wait your turn America, it's our turn now." That's exactly the type of argument that may just give the IOC second thoughts about whether they want Paris this time around and I hope for your sake the people in charge of Paris' bid don't let that become any part of their narrative.

Isn't that the same argument used in 2005, just instead of LA it was London, just before London narrowly defeated Paris???

And if we're going to use the logic that the IOC wants to see what other cities have to offer, we might as well just give the games Budapest, since Hungary has never hosted. I mean for all we know, in two years, we could see Los Angeles withdrawn from the race and Hamburg being elected. I'm just saying just because Los Angeles hosted more recently than Paris doesn't mean it should be written off.

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To quote Quaker describing someone else, "you sound extremely whiny when you say that". Of course they're not going to use the "centennial" as a main focus, if at all. They already citied as such. So stop being silly in this respect.

That quote would work if you actually knew what sounding extremely whiny actually meant. Nothing I said there was whiny. It was clearly a statement about what Athens did wrong. Then I went on to joke around and suggest doing it, as well as doing what they did days before the bid for the 2012 Olympics to benefit the LA bid. And you sound like you need some silly in your life you sound pretty miserable every time you come on here.

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Kinda funny how this deadline just came and went. I expected a few more cities to jump into the race, but it never happened. The IOC sort of has an embarrassment of riches here, at least in comparison to 2022.

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I honestly don't understand how these games are "Europe's to lose". If I remember correctly, Since the USA (or North America) last hosted the Summer Olympics, Europe has hosted twice. If anything, this should be LA's to loose. Especially considering the Agenda 2020, and that Los Angeles/Southern California have an abundance of venues that can used for the games, and only needs to build a few, such as velodrome, aquatics center and white water course. The only downside that I see is that it'll be difficult to make LA's bid compact like the past decade of bids. But if they focus on being cost effective and reusing venues, LA could win easily. Basically the same concept as the 1984 Games.

  1. Most of the rest of the world hates the USA, and the USOC is not very popular with the other NOC's.
  2. Los Angeles has a lot of venues, but they are smaller and older than those of Paris. Remember that a lot of those venues used in LA 84 were themselves from the 1932 Olympics.
  3. The IOC is desperate to repair its relationships with the people of Europe. Meanwhile as long as there are 4+ cities competing for the US bid the IOC doesn't need to worry about us. Even after Boston crashed and burned Los Angeles was eager to bid, after all.

It would be a massive upset for Paris to lose to any of the other cities.

Edited by Nacre
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And also don't the IOC consider the Americas to be united anyway - so 2016 counts as an American Games?

That's the old thinking...becuz they only have 5 rings. But I think...and I hope..that with the current generation of IOC'ers, they've moved past that purely symbolic notion.

  1. Most of the rest of the world hates the USA, and the USOC is not very popular with the other NOC's

:wacko: Uhmmm....what country has people lining outside its embassies for hours on end, in order to get an application form, an interview and a visa? What country has people waiting for as much as 10 years in order to get their Green Card? Last I checked, it wasn't Russia...or China...or Indonesia...or Saudi Arabia. Stop making statements you can't back up. :rolleyes:

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I just don't understand this thinking...or lack of it...that some cities hide all this time...and at the last minute...will just appear out of nowhere to became a candidate? I mean, how does that happen? Why would there be such a surprise factor? All the legit cities, if they are serious, announce as early as they can...and either move on or fall by the wayside. I've never seen this...oh, look Timbuktu or Zog just made the deadline. Huh?? :blink:

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:wacko: Uhmmm....what country has people lining outside its embassies for hours on end, in order to get an application form, an interview and a visa? What country has people waiting for as much as 10 years in order to get their Green Card? Last I checked, it wasn't Russia...or China...or Indonesia...or Saudi Arabia. Stop making statements you can't back up. :rolleyes:

I admit to using hyperbole, but the point is still valid.

The USA is only slightly ahead of China in its unfavorability rating, and far behind Germany and France. 34% of the world sees the USA negatively vs only 15% for Germany and 21% for France.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-22624104

Consider that Los Angeles can probably count on losing the vast majority of Muslim and French-speaking voters before the race has even begun. And then consider that African and the Caribbean sports executives are angry with us because of the FIFA investigation, Russia and its satellites are currently angry over the USA pushing economic restrictions on Russia, etc.

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Isn't that the same argument used in 2005, just instead of LA it was London, just before London narrowly defeated Paris???

And if we're going to use the logic that the IOC wants to see what other cities have to offer, we might as well just give the games Budapest, since Hungary has never hosted. I mean for all we know, in two years, we could see Los Angeles withdrawn from the race and Hamburg being elected. I'm just saying just because Los Angeles hosted more recently than Paris doesn't mean it should be written off.

Please don't use "logic" to make an exaggeration you know isn't reasonable. That never goes over well here.

Yes, Paris was the favorite going into the 2012 bid. London closed the gap and eventually won it. But that was replacing 1 European alpha city with another. I'm not dismissing LA's chances because they hosted in 1984 versus 1924. But that is at least a small factor working in Paris' favor here. And that, along with many other factors that work in favor of Paris (and in Europe in general) are why myself and others here are giving them a big edge going into this process. A lot can and will happen over the next 2 years. The IOC learned that the hard way with the 2022 votes and like you said, certainly plausible we could see 1 or more of these cities drop out of the race. My opinion though - and you're certainly welcome to disagree and offer any counter-points - is that right now at this early stage, I do believe this is Paris' Olympics to lose. I just don't buy the Agenda 2020 hype where LA's venue plan (which would require a massive renovation to the Coliseum, so in terms of venue readiness, don't discount what needs to be done there) makes them the top choice when the IOC has no European Olympics on the horizon for only the second time in their history. Past trends aside, I think they will want Europe and if they have that opportunity, they're going to take it.

I just don't understand this thinking...or lack of it...that some cities hide all this time...and at the last minute...will just appear out of nowhere to became a candidate? I mean, how does that happen? Why would there be such a surprise factor? All the legit cities, if they are serious, announce as early as they can...and either move on or fall by the wayside. I've never seen this...oh, look Timbuktu or Zog just made the deadline. Huh?? :blink:

Aren't you the person who says sometimes it's better to wait and see who the competition is before you make a declaration of their candidacy? None of these candidates appeared at the last minute, except I guess if you want to count LA, but we know the circumstances behind it. I don't think there's any real advantage or disadvantage based on when a city makes their intentions official. Planning time aside, all of them will have at least 2 years before the vote, so by the time we get to 2017, no one is going to care who became a candidate when.

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Isn't that the same argument used in 2005, just instead of LA it was London, just before London narrowly defeated Paris???

Apples & oranges. Before London won, the British capital hadn't hosted since 1948. Can't say the same for L.A. even now. London was still in Europe & Paris lost to another mega-European city. 2024 is almost a parallel of 2012; four European cities vs one American one. Even in the event that Paris loses, I seriously doubt it'll be to LA, anyway.

And if we're going to use the logic that the IOC wants to see what other cities have to offer, we might as well just give the games Budapest, since Hungary has never hosted.

I'm just saying just because Los Angeles hosted more recently than Paris doesn't mean it should be written off.

Except that Hungary is not in any great position to host the gargantuan task of hosting the Olympic Games. So we need to be realistic here. Let's remember who won the 2020 Games over "newbies" that had never hosted before. It's not as black & white as you're trying to portray just so you can make an argument for L.A.

Nothing I said there was whiny. It was clearly a statement about what Athens did wrong. Then I went on to joke around and suggest doing it, as well as doing what they did days before the bid for the 2012 Olympics to benefit the LA

Except that the "joke" wasn't funny at all. Yeah, we know what Athens did wrong for 1996. But what does that have to do with Paris 2024, besides nothing? I think some of you are trying to hang on to the hope that somehow Paris faux-pauxs again simony for the sake of perhaps Los Angeles squeaking by. But I don't see that in the cards, even if Paris doesn't win. I'd still it's Europe's up for grabs.

And you sound like you need some silly in your life you sound pretty miserable every time you come on here.

Projecting much, are we.

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Kinda funny how this deadline just came and went. I expected a few more cities to jump into the race, but it never happened. The IOC sort of has an embarrassment of riches here, at least in comparison to 2022.

Careful now: On the day after the 2022 deadline, the IOC even had more (if not quite stellar) bids than today. We could see some if that riches evaporating along the way,..

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Aren't you the person who says sometimes it's better to wait and see who the competition is before you make a declaration of their candidacy? None of these candidates appeared at the last minute, except I guess if you want to count LA, but we know the circumstances behind it. I don't think there's any real advantage or disadvantage based on when a city makes their intentions official. Planning time aside, all of them will have at least 2 years before the vote, so by the time we get to 2017, no one is going to care who became a candidate when.

If it wasn't clear, my comment was directed more at those who said...I was expecting so-and-so to bet. I KNOW that none of the 5 were last-minute. You misinterpret my post.

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  1. Most of the rest of the world hates the USA,

What are you baseing that on? Lots of people may hate the US government. But, heck, lots of Americans hate the US government. I think you'll find the US is darn popular around the world.

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There are some people who I fell are blowing the "Europe" factor completely out of proportion and saying LA will come last because of it. Then some people doing the polar opposite. There is a middle ground.

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What are you baseing that on? Lots of people may hate the US government. But, heck, lots of Americans hate the US government. I think you'll find the US is darn popular around the world.

I did not say that no one likes the USA. I said that many people dislike it. LA 2024 has a mountain to climb to win over the IOC members from Russia, the Middle East, etc.

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I did not say that no one likes the USA. I said that many people dislike it. LA 2024 has a mountain to climb to win over the IOC members from Russia, the Middle East, etc.

Do you have a crystal ball? It's not whether they like the USA or another country. Many will feel it is perhaps time to award it to Paris who is trying for the 5th time in about 25 years. Other cities who have bid 3x have usually won it on the 3rd.

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I think that Paris is the favorite, but not by a huge margin. So if they have a good file and they don't make major PR errors till 2017 they are likely to win. But they need to avoid the usual French errors (arrogance, political little games between conservators and socialists, etc).

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The way I see it, this race reminds me a lot of the 2008 race. You have a very heavy favorite in Paris that was a favorite in 2012 (much like Beijing was a favorite in the 2000 race) and now they've come back and made some adjustments. Still a ways to go but I think Paris wins this in a similar fashion that Beijing did during the 2008 race. In fact, I'll go as far as to say Paris wins it on the second round of voting.

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I still think Paris' biggest hurdle was getting this bid off the ground at all. Until recently I didn't think there would be the local or political appetite for another bid. That they're a candidate for 2024 is a huge thing in itself. I think this puts them as massive favourite. The appetite for a Paris Games within the IOC is clearly there as they lost by such a small margin a decade ago, and I really think the IOC will recognise this as perhaps the final opportunity they have of getting Paris for a long while.

So yeah.....I'm inclined to go with Stryker. All other bids are collateral damage in the face of a Paris juggernaut that unexpectedly got moving.

(Though I can understand why hektor and others are being more circumspect about their chances.)

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Los Angeles/Southern California have an abundance of venues that can used for the games, and only needs to build a few, such as velodrome, aquatics center and white water course. The only downside that I see is that it'll be difficult to make LA's bid compact like the past decade of bids. But if they focus on being cost effective and reusing venues, LA could win easily. Basically the same concept as the 1984 Games.

There's already a velodrome, at StubHub Center. Spectator seating capacity would just have to be expanded. LA's bid is way more compact than in 1984; in 1984, the venues were spread among five southern California counties. For 2024, all but the rowing venue (Lake Casitas in Ventura County) would be in LA County, and even the San Fernando Valley would see some events, the Valley having been ignored during 1984 (and 1932, for that matter, but of course the Games were even more compact in 1932, but that was a completely different era).

If there's anything that might be "difficult" for the LA bid, it's the Olympic Village. I don't see its proposed location on the piggyback yards, or its funding, to be a sure thing.

Edited by ejaycat

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Los Angeles has a lot of venues, but they are smaller and older than those of Paris. Remember that a lot of those venues used in LA 84 were themselves from the 1932 Olympics.

Smaller and older? The Stade de France opened almost 2 years before the Staples Center did. There are plenty of other newer venues, too.

And, for LA 1984, only the Coliseum and Rose Bowl were venues used that were also used in 1932. LA 84 utilized many already existing arenas and stadiums that were built well after the 1932 Olympics, including the athletic facilities of many college campuses (UCLA, USC, Cal State LA, Cal State Fullerton, Cal State Dominguez Hills, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, East Los Angeles College), as well as the Anaheim and Long Beach Convention Centers, and LA Convention Center (as the main media/press center).

The venue plan for LA 2024 has a very different footprint from 1984, as well as 1932. If you include Paris' 2024 bid of having their sailing events at Marseilles, LA's 2024 bid is more compact, even when taking into account Lake Casitas for rowing. But bidding for the Olympics is like the Oscars---politics and sentiment often rule over which one is technically the best bid, and what constitutes "the best" is never objective. We'll eventually see which city wins 2024.

That being said, here are the proposed main stadiums, or renderings thereof, of the five bid cities for 2024 (I was bored and just thought to post these pics for shits and giggles).

For Budapest, a new Puskás Ferenc Stadium would be built on the site of the old.

12036371_10203663633630034_2396934663048

hungarytoday.hu

This is a rendering of the proposed main Olympic stadium in Hamburg.

12002363_10203663640110196_5637058386981

architectureofthegames.net

Los Angeles would feature a remodeled Coliseum, with an adjacent proposed soccer stadium being used for the aquatic events, utilizing temporary pools built within the soccer stadium, which would provide the largest spectator seating capacity ever for Olympic aquatics events. If LA wins 2024, the Coliseum would be the first stadium to host an Olympics 3 times.

12038051_10203663641390228_4097993937103

la.curbed.com

Paris would utilize the Stade de France, built in 1998, for their main Olympic stadium.

12032795_10203663642550257_6619828304609

skyscrapercity.com

Rome's Stadio Olimpico, the main Olympic stadium during the 1960 Rome Summer Olympics, would be the main stadium if Rome wins 2024.

11990464_10203663643790288_2706019403622

skyscrapercity.com
Edited by ejaycat

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