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SkiFreak

Calgary 2026

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Of course that goes without saying. There has to be two solid bids on the table for a 2026/2030 combo deal in the first place. And if the IOC can get them, then they'll do what they need to do in order to keep them (see 2024/2028).

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2015 Pan Am Games cost the same amount.... with less athletes/venues etc. that amount is definitely attainable.

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So now Bach will start with his classical tour to Canada and Austria. But also, I guess Bach needs to help the SOK for a final fight in favor of Stockholm 2026 bid lol.

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So here's today's news from city hall and the CBEC:

CBC: Calgary rejects Olympic plebiscite, expects to make final decision next year on 2026 bid

Global news interviewed a number of the local athletes, of course they're all in favor. Surprisingly, a lot of the public is too. We'll see what happens in September 2018.

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A couple of thoughts here. First, the IOC has delayed the bidding process so Calgary is also drawing out the time needed to make a final decision. I also suspect that there's some hope that with the extra time that there are those in the city council who hope to have a deal finalized for a new Calgary Flames arena by that time rather than forcing Calgary to, say, partner with Edmonton because of the need for two 10,000 plus seat arenas. Regarding saying no to a possible referendum, that's very risky as a politician when you're dealing with taxpayer money. If they were to go through with this and tell the public you're paying for this without a vote, I could see some of these council members paying for it at the ballot box. On the other hand, maybe it would pass, but I suspect that with the additional timeframe, not to mention the animosity towards currently paying for a new Flames arena, that there's enough time for a no Olympics movement to make itself known and have an impact.

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A very interesting thing happened here in Canada recently...

CBC News Calgary: Kent Hehr's new cabinet post might signal support for Calgary's Olympic aspirations, says prof

Quote

Hehr is now the minister of sport and persons with disabilities, a fitting portfolio for a someone who was a promising athlete before being paralyzed in a random drive-by shooting. 

His interest in sports and his Calgary base have raised eyebrows regarding the city's interest in an Olympic bid. 

 

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If the IOC can guarantee at least a billion dollars for Calgary to help finance the Games and Calgary can get the Flames arena down, this is a no-brainer.

Calgary won't have any issues with ticket sales, there won't be the deficient venue legacy and there is already a playbook for the organizers to follow to get the country behind the Games.

  And I already thought the Liberals had signaled their support?

Edited by Faster

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A potentially huge blow to a new Calgary Flames arena. My guess is now the Flames will wait to see if the upcoming municipal elections produce a more favorable atmosphere for more a new arena. If not, I'm sure the Videotron Centre in Quebec would look more attractive. If Calgary won't fund a new arena, then it's hard to see the city giving an Olympics a go. Even if they did, without a new arena they'd have to likely partner with Edmonton to fulfill the two 10,000+ capacity arena requirements.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-city-council-flames-negotiations-deal-1.4291316

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I think the North American sports leagues have trapped themselves with their spectacular venues and high franchise values.

The argument is frequently made that the billionaire owners can afford to build their own stadiums and arenas. But this ignores the reality that the current high franchise values are propped up by owners taking on debt to buy teams. An owner paying $250-500 million for an NHL team or $1-2 billion for an NBA team is taking on a heavy debt burden already to pay that much for the team. If half of the money paid comes on loan and you add another $225 million for an arena the debt load will be $400-425 million for an NHL team. At 4% interest that is $17 million per year in debt servicing, and the average NHL team will be in the red at that point. Highly leveraged owners really can't afford to build their own arenas.

NHL owners in Vancouver, Ottowa and Montreal all privately funded their own arenas. And then all went bankrupt.

Moreover because sports are competitive the teams really do need the modern venues in order to keep up with their rivals. Without luxury suites, club seating, PSL's, etc teams like the Flames are fighting with one hand behind their back. It is an arms race to generate revenue.

For cities, meanwhile, it makes no sense to cave in to the teams even if they really do need the public subsidy to keep up with the other teams that have either gotten public subsidies or are in large enough markets to make a privately funded stadium viable.  Even at the mere 33% Calgary is offering the Flames, the city will have wasted a lot of money. Hurting businesses or homeowners with extra taxes, or cutting teachers or police officers to provide welfare to the rich team owners is an extremely dubious business decision for a city.

The leagues are screwed. Cities are poorer and wiser now than before the recession, and less willing to use public money for private benefit. Meanwhile many of the owners can neither afford to build their own venues or back down from their demands or they will be left behind competitively. We have seen this now with the NFL in San Diego, with MLB and Oakland + Tampa and numerous NHL teams. The NBA is the only league that is doing well because they have enough operating profit to absorb a heavy debt load.

In any case I think Calgary's Olympic hopes are dead. No new arena = no winter Olympics.

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You make some very valid points regarding sports leagues and the need for  shiny new arenas and stadiums. Your point about cities being wiser about their money after the recession would also extend to Olympic bids as well and is IMO the key reason the IOC is having such a problem right now attracting and keeping bidders. Another thought on Calgary's arena problems,. The argument for a new arena regenerating a section of downtown, which often plays a big role in getting public support behind funding for a new stadium or arena, doesn't really apply here. In fact, Calgary has a problem right now with office vacancies. If I recall it's around 27%. 

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Well this is almost two weeks old, but Mayor Naheed Nenshi did comment on Calgary's Olympic bid following the recent collapse in talks over a new Flames arena. Says a new arena isn't entirely necessary and that if it fails to go through, Calgary could easily partner with Edmonton's Rogers Place. The IIHF and ISU would grumble but if it comes down to Calgary and let's Almaty, I am sure the IOC would have no problems with a secondary arena in Edmonton.

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There was a quick mention of the bid on the news today. I think they're gonna start discussing it at city hall tomorrow, first time post municipal election.

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1 hour ago, FYI said:

I can see it now: a double Salt Lake/Sapporo combo deal.

I can't see that.  Why would the IOC want to lock in 2 cities when neither are from Europe?  If they make that decision here, they're basically saying Europe is a lost cause for the Winter Olympics for more than a decade.  I doubt they'll make that move.  Who knows if another 4 years is enough time for any city in Europe to put together a bid that doesn't get killed by a referendum, but why would they eliminate that option?  Paris/LA as a combo deal made a ton of sense.  Salt Lake/Sapporo, not so much.

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Yeah, sure. Nevermind that the IOC has already gone on record that a double-award wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility again, despite knowing the fact that Europe is the one on shaky grounds in hosting another Winter Olympics anytime soon. 

I was also under the assumption that if Europe wasn't in that equation, that it wouldn't have gone forward. But that was before the Innsbruck referendum failed, & to a lesser extent, Sion's bid looking not so bright anymore either. So it's becoming another dire circumstance of beggars can't be choosers for the IOC.

So at this point in time, I don't see the scenario as Europe being a "lost cause", but rather the IOC trying to make the best of what little good options they have left. Salt Lake/Sapporo may seem not to make "a ton of sense", but it makes sense when your other options are more than likely going to be subpar, or worse yet, none at all.

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Well, if Annecy bid, then Salt Lake, then the IOC will just return to its roots of awarding both Games to the same country, so 

2024 - Paris

2026 - Annecy

2028- LA

2030 - Salt Lake!  

That should line up very nicely!! 

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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15 hours ago, FYI said:

Yeah, sure. Nevermind that the IOC has already gone on record that a double-award wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility again, despite knowing the fact that Europe is the one on shaky grounds in hosting another Winter Olympics anytime soon. 

I was also under the assumption that if Europe wasn't in that equation, that it wouldn't have gone forward. But that was before the Innsbruck referendum failed, & to a lesser extent, Sion's bid looking not so bright anymore either. So it's becoming another dire circumstance of beggars can't be choosers for the IOC.

So at this point in time, I don't see the scenario as Europe being a "lost cause", but rather the IOC trying to make the best of what little good options they have left. Salt Lake/Sapporo may seem not to make "a ton of sense", but it makes sense when your other options are more than likely going to be subpar, or worse yet, none at all.

LOL with the quotes.

Good for the IOC that they went on record.  I said before that it would only make sense if it was the right pair of cities.  This is not it.  It's not "out of the realm of possibility", but I think it's pretty unlikely.  What purpose does it serve to do a double award here?  The other "option" is to wait another 4 years and hope there are some decent candidates then.  If Salt Lake and Sapporo are interested now when both of their respective countries have an Olympics on the calendar, I think the IOC should take their chances that the other would be back and maybe then there's a European candidate out there that can pass the test.  There's little risk that they're going to piss off a potential future candidate as was the concern with Paris and LA.

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1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

LOL with the quotes.

LOL with the "memes". 

1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

Good for the IOC that they went on record.  I said before that it would only make sense if it was the right pair of cities.  This is not it.  It's not "out of the realm of possibility", but I think it's pretty unlikely. 

Right, bcuz I forgot that you saying it's pretty unlikely overrides anything that the IOC itself might have to say on the matter. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's a slam-dunk, but it's certainly on the IOC's radar, which is the view that matters here. Let's also keep in mind how unlikely many people said that 2024 & 2028 being awarded together was also 'pretty unlikely'. Even though now hindsight tells you that move made "a ton of sense". "Good for you" though that you think otherwise now. :P

1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

What purpose does it serve to do a double award here? 

How about even more stability in the next decade for the IOC (like 2024 & 2028 gives them), especially for the Winter side where the IOC is facing much of (& which started) this dilemma of theirs in the first place? 

It's not like Japan is some backwater or despot that the IOC wouldn't be more than happy to have them locked in for another Winter Olympics. The Nagano 1998 Winter Olympics were actually pretty successful for an Asian Winter Games.

1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

The other "option" is to wait another 4 years and hope there are some decent candidates then.  If Salt Lake and Sapporo are interested now when both of their respective countries have an Olympics on the calendar, I think the IOC should take their chances that the other would be back and maybe then there's a European candidate out there that can pass the test.  There's little risk that they're going to piss off a potential future candidate as was the concern with Paris and LA.

What other Westeren European candidates do you honestly see coming out of the woodwork in the next four years that haven't come out in the last decade or have flatly rejected the IOC in the last two Olympic bid races?

Austria just said no. Norway said a big fat NO the last time around, & don't seem interested at all this time around either. And Switerland's bidding record has been disasterous ever since they lost their Sion 2006 bid back in 1999. And unless the Swiss government fully backs their current 2026 attempt & then passing that dreaded referendum, which if history is anything to go by, then I wouldn't count on them either in another four years.

Germany? Nah - they keep saying no, too. France? "Pretty unlikely" :P since they'll most certainly be focusing their efforts on 2024 & won't bother with a Winter Olympics, unlike the USOC. Maybe Italy? But then there again, Rome said no twice to an Olympics, so who really knows about an appetite for a Winter Games, 

So yeah, that actually sounds like a pretty big gamble considering Western Europe's (winter) bidding track record in recent history to merely hold on to "hope" that a credible, traditional European winter candidate finally gets all of their complicated acts together in the very next winter cycle.

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