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128th IOC Session Olympic Bid Live Chat - Discuss 2020 YOG and 2022 Olympic Games Bid presentations here


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Then the IOC would have to scrap almost all sports from the Olympic schedule. There are always sports which are not (or only scarcely) practised in all the 200+ countries forming the IOC. However, as long as they are sports which are practised in a considerable number of countries around the globe (and luge, bobsleigh and skeleton are such sports, with a strong tradition in large parts of Europe and North America), they are legitimate sports in the Olympic schedule.

Well, at least Almaty would have been more of an commitment to Agenda 2020 than Beijing is.

Well then should we consider to downsize the Winter Olympic to just a regional games between European and North American countries?

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I told myself I wouldn't give a sh!t who won. But I realised pretty quickly after I read the announcement that while I would have accepted Almaty, I was totally disgusted by the Beijing choice. I hone

Yeah it's not a surprise. Just very sad that the IOC is rewarding a nation that lied about their 2008 legacies, poison the environment, abuse and persecute innocent people, have venues from 2008 wasti

Beijing: entitled Almaty: aspirant Beijing: we speak Chinese Almaty: we speak English, sort of. But we make an effort Beijing: Our grande fromage is too busy to come, but he sends you the followin

Thank you and wish that the Beijing 2022 will not be that terribly bad as Atlanta 1996 in USA.

And you know this because you were there? Or live in the U.S. to see what Atlantas games did for the city? The games helped rebuild Atlanta's downtown and despite hiccups in hosting, the games have had a much better legacy than Beijing.

Even Atlanta's hosting wasn't terrible, we just didn't feel like we had to prove ourselves to the world and spend 30 billion dollars on white elephant venues. The biggest complaints about Atlanta was traffic and Venue design. At least the venues were closer than Beijings will be to one another. And those venues were constructed on something called a budget, a budget that made sure the only thing the taxpayer payed for was security. Atlanta 1996 certainly wasn't the best, but at least it showed how to create a legacy and turn a profit.

I also want to add that comparing a Summer and Winter games is absurd. Let's compare SLC and Beijing 2022.

Well then should we consider to downsize the Winter Olympic to just a regional games between European and North American countries?

Nah, just go back to the 70s when China didn't play.
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Well then should we consider to downsize the Winter Olympic to just a regional games between European and North American countries?

Come on, I was only talking about three sports on the Winter Olympic roster. Shorttrack, on the other hand, is a very Asian sport. So it's silly to talk about "regional European/North American Games".

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And you know this because you were there? Or live in the U.S. to see what Atlantas games did for the city? The games helped rebuild Atlanta's downtown and despite hiccups in hosting, the games have had a much better legacy than Beijing.

Even Atlanta's hosting wasn't terrible, we just didn't feel like we had to prove ourselves to the world and spend 30 billion dollars on white elephant venues. The biggest complaints about Atlanta was traffic and Venue design. At least the venues were closer than Beijings will be to one another. And those venues were constructed on something called a budget, a budget that made sure the only thing the taxpayer payed for was security. Atlanta 1996 certainly wasn't the best, but at least it showed how to create a legacy and turn a profit.

I also want to add that comparing a Summer and Winter games is absurd. Let's compare SLC and Beijing 2022.

Much better legacy than Beijing? And you know this because you were there? Or live in the China to see what Beijing games did for the city?

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Well, at least Almaty would have been more of an commitment to Agenda 2020 than Beijing is.

Umm, I'm not gonna rewrite this, so I'm just gonna repost it:

The IOC is the one that got themselves into this mess anyway. They only scrambled for "reforms" when European after European city kept pulling out of 2022 'til they were left with none. So IDK why some people are saying that they voted against their own agenda 2020. This was not a legitimate race whatsoever to try & determine that. Agenda 2020 was a result of this race. It's gonna take a couple of more cycles, with ACTUAL viable candidates, to do that.

It's not like Almaty was some "savior" of a bid anyway. It's still had pollution, it's still really not a true winter tradition either, it's still had to build some key venues, not to mention more hotels (& roads) that they won't use or need post Games. In a smallish, remote, obsure country runned by one strong-arm with a questionable economy & still with human rights issues of their own as well. I've said it before & I'll say it again, if Almaty's bid was anywhere else besides Kazahkstan, it'd be a no-brainer. But the big problem here was, that it IS in Kazahkstan.

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Umm, I'm not gonna rewrite this, so I'm just gonna repost it:

I read it, but it doesn't really contradict what I just wrote. It's hard to deny that Almaty with its compact venue plan, its higher number of existing (and used) venues and its natural snow (as opposed to the environmentally crazy "only artifical snow" festival in Beijing) would have been more in line with Agenda 2020, even if Agenda 2020 was written only in the middle of the 2022 bid race.

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Come on, I was only talking about three sports on the Winter Olympic roster. Shorttrack, on the other hand, is a very Asian sport. So it's silly to talk about "regional European/North American Games".

Not really. Only very very few Asian teenagers join short track.

To organize an Olympic games in China would certainly help promoting the winter sports in the country. There is a huge region in China rich of snow and ice in winter. People (and teenagers) are simple not aware of the potential (joy and fun) of winter sports, and they really need some inspiration like an Olympic in their home country.

I still remember how the Nagano 1998 games inspired a friend of mine (a big Japanese pop culture fans) to join the very first ice hockey team in Hong Kong.

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Well, Almaty isn't exactly the field game.

Again, it's confirmed: "Final presentations don't make the deal. They can help you but they aren't miraculous". Also, from the previous post saying Almaty could have beaten an european contender for just the presentation, if Almaty couldn't beat a dreadful Beijing, Almaty hasn't any chance with European contenders.

Exactly. And it also confirms that Almaty was merely there bcuz Europe pulled out. Now I'm totally convinced that Almaty wouldn't even have been short-listed if we did indeed have a full European plate.

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Not really. Only very very few Asian teenagers join short track.

To organize an Olympic games in China would certainly help promoting the winter sports in the country. There is a huge region in China rich of snow and ice in winter. People (and teenagers) are simple not aware of the potential (joy and fun) of winter sports, and they really need some inspiration like an Olympic in their home country.

I still remember how the Nagano 1998 games inspired a friend of mine (a big Japanese pop culture fans) to join the very first ice hockey team in Hong Kong.

So if Japan's Winter games inspired your friend how would Pyongchang fail to inspire?

Also with regards to Beijing, the legacy, like Atlantas has been highly covered. Go check out what Atlantas Core Olympic sites look like compared to Bejing. Or Atlantas record with the promises made to the IOC. Like Beijing you can find that information online.

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Not really. Only very very few Asian teenagers join short track.

To organize an Olympic games in China would certainly help promoting the winter sports in the country. There is a huge region in China rich of snow and ice in winter. People (and teenagers) are simple not aware of the potential (joy and fun) of winter sports, and they really need some inspiration like an Olympic in their home country.

I still remember how the Nagano 1998 games inspired a friend of mine (a big Japanese pop culture fans) to join the very first ice hockey team in Hong Kong.

Well, that's a bit nit-picking. Fact is that Asia has a strong record on shorttrack, as can be seen in the medals won. Shorttrack is rather an Asian than a European or North American sport.

And I'm still in doubt about whether Olympic Games can change everything. Pyeongchang will be a litmus test for that, in a country that has no tradition in most Olympic winter sports. I think that Olympic Games can be beneficial for a sports nation in general and can strengthen sports that were overlooked earlier (Great Britain is a good example for that - they spent a lot of money for their athletes ahead of the 2012 Games, and I'm sure they can benefit from that investment for quite a few years to come), but I don't think it can create traditions where never was one.

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mm, I'm not gonna rewrite this, so I'm just gonna repost it:

FYI, on 31 Jul 2015 - 8:56 PM, said:snapback.png

The IOC is the one that got themselves into this mess anyway. They only scrambled for "reforms" when European after European city kept pulling out of 2022 'til they were left with none. So IDK why some people are saying that they voted against their own agenda 2020. This was not a legitimate race whatsoever to try & determine that. Agenda 2020 was a result of this race. It's gonna take a couple of more cycles, with ACTUAL viable candidates, to do that.

It's not like Almaty was some "savior" of a bid anyway. It's still had pollution, it's still really not a true winter tradition either, it's still had to build some key venues, not to mention more hotels (& roads) that they won't use or need post Games. In a smallish, remote, obsure country runned by one strong-arm with a questionable economy & still with human rights issues of their own as well. I've said it before & I'll say it again, if Almaty's bid was anywhere else besides Kazahkstan, it'd be a no-brainer. But the big problem here was, that it IS in Kazahkstan.

Except that Beijing already hosted the Olympics and said that they would have uses for the venues and that they would improve their air quality. You can't go and say "Almaty will build hotels and roads they wont use or need", they haven't hosted something of this scale, they may very well use them. Thing is, we do know that Beijing didn't do well with their post games use, their air quality is still terrible. And don't go talking about winter powerhouses. Beijing has hosted absolutely nothing related to winter sports, no Asian winter games, no winter universiades, absolutely nothing.

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So if Japan's Winter games inspired your friend how would Pyongchang fail to inspire?

Also with regards to Beijing, the legacy, like Atlantas has been highly covered. Go check out what Atlantas Core Olympic sites look like compared to Bejing. Or Atlantas record with the promises made to the IOC. Like Beijing you can find that information online.

Hmmm I found the old news on the bombing. I am very sorry for what happened.

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I read it, but it doesn't really contradict what I just wrote. It's hard to deny that Almaty with its compact venue plan, its higher number of existing (and used) venues and its natural snow (as opposed to the environmentally crazy "only artifical snow" festival in Beijing) would have been more in line with Agenda 2020, even if Agenda 2020 was written only in the middle of the 2022 bid race.

You're merely looking at Almaty's bid "on paper" & saying, "this looks feasible" (& I'm certainly not gonna argue with you about that it didn't look better than Beijing's proposal. Because it did). But what's not being taken into account here by the Almaty camp were the logistical & geopolitical risks that Kazahkstan still presented. It's still not a city with full international amenities. Even the IOC's 2022 Final Evaluation Report highlighted this & talked about the "numerous challenges".

I believe what scared the IOC the most about Kazahkstan, is it's questionable political & economic stability. The guy running the country has been doing so since 1990. He's like 75 now & no true replacement if he for whatever reason wasn't in power anymore. That's not a very comforting aspect. Plus the fluctuating economy that relies on mainly oil money, where prices go up & down. Not to mention, it's still Kazahkstan. From a marketing perspective, I can't imagine how hard that would've been to push to get international travelers enticed enough to even go there. Didn't really work for Sochi, & they're in Russia. So much less in such a remote, obscure place.

You can't go and say "Almaty will build hotels and roads they wont use or need", they haven't hosted something of this scale, they may very well use them.

Is Sochi using them from the 2014 Games? That's a NO. And heck, they didn't even have all of the hotels ready in time anyway. And that's Russia! So much less in Kazahkstan.

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Is Sochi using them from the 2014 Games? That's a NO. And heck, they didn't even have all of the hotels ready in time anyway. And that's Russia! So much less in Kazahkstan.

You mean the city that single handedly might stop all cities from wanting an interest in hosting the Olympics? Pretty much the reason 4 cities dropped out of 2022? Yeah great defensive argument you got there.

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But that race was a close one, only 4 votes difference!

I'd say several apples were passed around. :-P

You mean the city that single handedly might stop all cities from wanting an interest in hosting the Olympics? Pretty much the reason 4 cities dropped out of 2022? Yeah great defensive argument you got there.

What does that have to do with you trying to defend Almaty about the hotels, besides absolutely nothing.

Look, the race is now over. Beijing won. Get over it already & STOP being insufferable about it, will you!

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I'd say several apples were passed around. :-P

Haha, that might also explain why there were only 84 IOC members voting this time. Or what was the reason for that? It's the lowest number of voting members since Lillehammer got elected the 1994 host in 1988.

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Well, that's a bit nit-picking. Fact is that Asia has a strong record on shorttrack, as can be seen in the medals won. Shorttrack is rather an Asian than a European or North American sport.

And I'm still in doubt about whether Olympic Games can change everything. Pyeongchang will be a litmus test for that, in a country that has no tradition in most Olympic winter sports. I think that Olympic Games can be beneficial for a sports nation in general and can strengthen sports that were overlooked earlier (Great Britain is a good example for that - they spent a lot of money for their athletes ahead of the 2012 Games, and I'm sure they can benefit from that investment for quite a few years to come), but I don't think it can create traditions where never was one.

On short track, in the case of China (and maybe Korea as well), they trained up a handful few of elite athletes and won the medals. That is all. At least in China, short track is only promoted in a few places in Northeastern China, say Harbin or Changchun. People not in these places simple unheard of these sports, even they also have ice and snow in winter.

If the Beijing 2022 games is successful, then it would be very possible that many existing resorts on winter sport could take this opportunity to promote themselves to the public, and certainly they will do so. For example as I mentioned in another page in this forum, there are some very good skiing resorts even in Southern China. The place called Yunnan itself has a long reputation of being a wonderful tourist destination, however only very few people have linked this place to winter sports. In Hong Kong if some family really want to go skiing normally they will travel to Japan-- a real legacy of Nagano 1998 in other parts of Asia. In fact flying to Japan is far and expensive, and flying to Yunnan is very cheap. If people are inspired by Beijing 2022, many of them would certainly try it, esp after they learned that some good resorts are just 1 hour flight from their home. A winter game in China will certainly promote winter sports, far beyond the boundary of snowing regions.

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Chinese Olympic Committee President Peng Liu is asked if he is going to take up a winter sport. "I do fast walking every day and make sure I work up a brisk sweat. I am a southerner and I do roller skating. I will swap my roller skates for ice skates and lead by example."

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Chinese Olympic Committee President Peng Liu is asked if he is going to take up a winter sport. "I do fast walking every day and make sure I work up a brisk sweat. I am a southerner and I do roller skating. I will swap my roller skates for ice skates and lead by example."

LOL! He should start trying winter sport then! He will love it!

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What does that have to do with you trying to defend Almaty about the hotels, besides absolutely nothing.

Look, the race is now over. Beijing won. Get over it already & STOP being insufferable about it, will you!

You're the one who brought up Sochi as if that was a way of defending Beijings failures from 2008. And yeah they've won, i'm still able to criticize them. You're still going around trying to attack Almaty even though they've lost.. lol

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What failures?

What immense fuckery did Beijing do (apart from these mythical evictions that affected very few)?

Human rights? Yeah China has a bad rep but frankly so does the USA, and more recently even our precious "light in the dark" Australia.

As for your white elephant comment - yes the Olympic Stadium is underused however the majority of the other venues are either in constant use or been converted to a status that makes them viable. It's like you are trying to paint them as Athens Part 2. Even the Brisbane Entertainment Centre or Suncorp Stadium isn't in use every day. They can go unused for months and host on average 30-40 events a year.

The air quality is a worry - however this will give them impetus to improve and fast. Almaty has also been criticised for their air quality.

Beijing may not have hosted winter events on this scale before however China has. Many times. Almaty has co-hosted one Asian Winter Games and yes they have a Universiade coming up but they haven't pulled it off yet.

Your pick didn't win.

Almaty may provide the city with a legacy for 1.5 million people. China is an emerging winter sports powerhouse who will have world class venues (artificial snow or not - most ski resorts use snow guns at times) that will catapult them even higher.

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You're the one who brought up Sochi as if that was a way of defending Beijings failures from 2008.

Sochi was a reference to your "defense" of how Almaty might still be able to use all the hotels that they would've had to build, which is a farce. My point was if Sochi couldn't use them, a sub-tropical city on the coast of the Black Sea, & in much more known Russia, what makes you think that obsure Almaty in remote Central Asia would fair any better in that aspect. What in the world does that have to do with Beijing, besides you just going off on a tangent on it because of your "hatred" for China is beyond me.

You're still going around trying to attack Almaty even though they've lost.. lol

That's because you're still incessantly defending them even though they lost. Go figure.

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I can't lie, I'm terribly, absolutely gutted. Out of the 2 cities, Beijing was the one NOT deserving the Games. At least we now know what Agenda 2020 is all about: you don't need to have snow to host Winter Olympics; it is fine to build not one but three Olympic Villages; democracy and human rights don't matter (but this is nothing new); money will always wins over, no matter what. I can't wait to see how much those Games will cost. Probably more tha Sotchi.... Well, those are for sure the first Olympics I won't even bother watching.

It says a lot about what to expect for the 2024 race, and I think Paris should drop right now!

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