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Potential 2026 and 2028 bids

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Anyway, it seems that the tendency of bi-national or even more countries getting involved for future WOG will be as usual as it is being with the FIFA WC.

On the other hand, I agree with FYI, Calgary might not have the same chancesthan Stockholm because Whistler, and Canada is the second largest country in the world. sO i don't even picture athletes at the opening ceremony. Sion and Graz could be in disadventage, just for having hosted the WYOG.

Riga Airport is only 30 to 40 minutes flight for bobsleigh, skeleton and luge. After all, most nothern Europeans go to Latvia to train, including the Swedes. Besides, Swedish motorways are nearly empty and traffic jam free with a good range of public transportation such as railway and shuttles.

If the location might play a major role in this decission,   the last European city (Sochi) to host the WOG is not even considered European at all for being at the edge of the Ural Mountains dividing the R. Federation. For many ex-Soviet countries it was like being at home in Central Asia. That reminds me how stupid were the IOC voters ignoring Almaty. That coud have been the last real compact and snowy WOG. Let's see if the Chinese turn smog into snow. And Beijing municipality should seriously work on improving life standards in those depressing hutong (pathetically as poor as slums from Brazil or South Africa).

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On 4/17/2018 at 10:21 PM, FYI said:

To quote one of my favorite posters around here: “good for you” :D that you ‘don’t’ view Calgary that way. But I still do. You’ve already claimed that would like to see Calgary host but don’t see it happening if Sion somehow survives all the way ‘til vote day. So that means that you’re partial towards Calgary & your views about them are as such & therefore aren’t really objective. But I’m just looking at things as a casual observer. Not “supporting” any of the bids, just looking at how it’s playing out.

I also see Salt Lake 2030 & the USOC knocking on the IOC’s back door as a handicap for Calgary 2026 as well (as also even mentioned in a GB article). The IOC will be hesitate of wanting to have two back-to-back NA Winter Olympics & will try to avoid that as best as possible. But all of this back & forth may not even matter as early as June when both Calgary & Sion have the potential of downright disappearing from the 2026 bidding landscape. 

My favorite name in my notifications has returned! You know, you don't need to psycho-analyze all of my posts, right? :rolleyes:

 

I think you have a mixed view of support versus drawing conclusions/analysis. I, given my values for Olympic Games, have examined all bids thoroughly (which is obvious, this is a website to do just that, so assuming I only support Calgary and Sion is rather stupid), and see positives AND negatives or all of the possible bids for 2026. Given the question at hand, I just so happened to argue in favor of Calgary/Sion and against Stockholm. However, I still do value the bid from Stockholm and would love to see it host, but for THIS question, I talked about its cons. Each bid has many things going for it, AND many things going against it. And as someone who is "partial towards Calgary and Sion" and "not really subjective", I like to acknowledge both in different settings to help better understand each bid, and this time around, it was to talk about Stockholm's main con, to ME. So, even if I have argued in Calgary's defense more, that doesn't indicate I am impartial, biased, or already sold on a bid. I may just like to engage in Olympic-related conversation. Assuming that I'm already sold on Calgary just proves you needed one more thing to try and add to your rebuttal. And, don't write a sentence about how much of a "casual observer" you are, to just begin the next paragraph talking about your own views and images of the future. It's contradicting. 

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No fu@king kidding that this is a website to determine all of the pros & cons of Olympic bids. So thanks for that, captain obvious.. :P

But you specifically mentioned that you “wouldn’t support” Stockholm over Calgary or Sion. So it’s not “rather stupid” or  “psycho-analying” anything, cuz that’s what YOU said earlier. 

You’ve made your point about Stockholm’s deficiency. But it’s quite clear that others here don’t agree with your assessment (& actually providing more in-depth analysis to rebut YOUR “con”). So don’t get your undies all caught up in bunches when someone else doesn’t agree with your “examination of bids” (we have enough of that around here as it is), & then claim that all you want to do is to “engage in Olympic-related conversation”,  cuz “it’s contradicting”. ‘Engaging’ also means that you’re going to get different POV & opinions as well. So learn to get use to it, tony. But again, it might all be moot come June anyway when Calgary & Sion could be gone.

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On 4/18/2018 at 2:25 AM, baron-pierreIV said:

So, of the 4 Euro bids @ the starting gate, it appears that only the Italian and Swiss bids are entirely mono-national.  The Swedish and Austrian bids are both bi-national.  So, I think that ideally puts Sion in #1 position right now; I think Austria-Germany #2; Sweden #3 - and Italy (also, like Sweden and Calgary, waiting for gov't support) at a distant 4th, and also because of the recent 2006 hosting.   So @ this stage, 2026 is Sion's and the Austro-German bids to lose.  

Sion is planning to use Thialf in the Netherlands for the speed skating events, but yes, I would be inclined to say a Swiss bid, if it survives a referendum which is highly unlikely, would be a slight favorite. I cannot see Graz surviving one either and looking at their venue plans, I would assume if they plan to hold speed skating and sliding events in Germany that there would need to be a referendum there as well and the Germans haven't looked too kindly on Olympic bids in recent years. I don't think it's inconceivable that all four European bids fall apart before the final vote next year.

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2 minutes ago, stryker said:

I don't think it's inconceivable that all four European bids fall apart before the final vote next year.

Nope, not inconceivable at all. Even GB’s gives all the 2026 Euro bids less than 50% chances of actually making it to vote day come Sept. 2019 - with Stockholm & Sion given 20% & 25% chances respectively. And Italy & Graz given the highest chances (relatively speaking) at 40% & 45% respectively.

I personally would swap Italy’s &  Graz’s chances of survival ‘til the end of the 2026 campaign. But the difference between the two is so marginal at this point that it’s negligable. Overall though, I generally agree with GB’s assessment of the 2026 Euro bids. 

I think the chances of going back to Asia (for a third consecutive time) gets even bigger with each passing month. And if come June we actually lose not only Sion but Calgary as well, then it really starts to look inevitable for yet another Asian Winter Olympics.

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On 4/18/2018 at 8:47 AM, Smitty said:

On Albertville I meant to say that the transport system was stretched, and many attendees found getting to events on narrow mountain roads less than ideal. Those Games made the IOC move away from the "regional" winter games concept, and I am not sure that the pendulum has fully moved back.

Considering how much slack the 1992 Albertville Winter Olympics get bcuz it was so spread out, looking at the venue plans, it more or less looks like that’s what Sion & Graz are proposing. So in that sense, how well-organized can such a spread out plan really be?

With proposed venues as far away as the Netherlands & Germany, & then also having more venues spread through several cantons, the more I think about it, the Stockholm/Are plan really is the most compact (more along the concept of Vancouver/Whister & Turin/Barnodecchia-Sustiere), despite the two main clusters being farther apart. Logistically speaking, the latter would seem more feasible in the end, all things considered. 

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1 hour ago, FYI said:

Considering how much slack the 1992 Albertville Winter Olympics get bcuz it was so spread out, looking at the venue plans, it more or less looks like that’s what Sion & Graz are proposing. So in that sense, how well-organized can such a spread out plan really be?

With proposed venues as far away as the Netherlands & Germany, & then also having more venues spread through several cantons, the more I think about it, the Stockholm/Are plan really is the most compact (more along the concept of Vancouver/Whister & Turin/Barnodecchia-Sustiere), despite the two main clusters being farther apart. Logistically speaking, the latter would seem more feasible in the end, all things considered. 

To be fair to Sion, they have anticipated this and have arranged their venues around a rail/road trapezoid. SBB/CFF also had a good reputation for running their network well, so that will be a selling point for them. I think the main issue against is that it is not far from Lausanne, and the IOC would like to travel.

On Stockholm/Åre (or Calgary/Whistler for that matter) the issue there is that it could break the IOC sustainability commitments if everyone is flying between clusters. (Not many will, but Olympic Family and VIP will.).More of a PR problem, but one they have not yet had to face.

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Once plans like that, with massive distances & multinational cooperation are in the open, is it much of a stretch to imagine a Games where ice-based events are held one week in, say, London or NYC & snow-based events are held the next week in an Are or Aspen? Combining proper snow with a big enough city in close range is hard, & a snow Games would surely be small enough for traditional resorts. 

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3 hours ago, yoshi said:

Once plans like that, with massive distances & multinational cooperation are in the open, is it much of a stretch to imagine a Games where ice-based events are held one week in, say, London or NYC & snow-based events are held the next week in an Are or Aspen? Combining proper snow with a big enough city in close range is hard, & a snow Games would surely be small enough for traditional resorts. 

Yoshi, the whole point is to hold them within the same period, under the supervision, oversight and protection of ONE Organizing Committee which provides a layer of its local culture as encouraged by the IOC.  Take those out and It no longer becomes an Olympic Games. 

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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That thing with Heerenveen being the speed skating venue for Sion, that‘s a joke, right? They could easily build a temporary ice rink somewhere in Switzerland, I‘d guess. Same actually with Graz/Inzell. And why does that bid propose Königssee for sliding events? It may be closer to Graz than the Austrian track in Igls, but it would still need involvement of a second NOC/country...

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2 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

That thing with Heerenveen being the speed skating venue for Sion, that‘s a joke, right? They could easily build a temporary ice rink somewhere in Switzerland, I‘d guess. Same actually with Graz/Inzell. And why does that bid propose Königssee for sliding events? It may be closer to Graz than the Austrian track in Igls, but it would still need involvement of a second NOC/country...

Speed skating venues in recent Olympics have been large, column-free sheds with a lot of overlay. Sion has proposed to build one in Aigle but the mantra is to try to be like Los Angeles and not build any new permanent structures at all if you don't have to. Sion could possibly convert somewhere like Palexpo in Geneva to be the venue but having an event next to a busy airport would be strange (then again, so is a venue in the Netherlands).

 

As for Graz, they're proposing to use Inzell and Schönau am Königsee because of the referendum in Tyrol against the Olympics, so they have to avoid any venues in the state. The DOSB is not against this; it would effectively be a home venue for them. Salzburg proposed to use Schönau in their 2014 bid when Munich in the same year was proposing to use the same venue.

What's odd is that they are not proposing to use any venues in Salzburg, which is just across the border from Schönau. Must be civic rivalry... 

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3 hours ago, Smitty said:

Speed skating venues in recent Olympics have been large, column-free sheds with a lot of overlay. Sion has proposed to build one in Aigle but the mantra is to try to be like Los Angeles and not build any new permanent structures at all if you don't have to. Sion could possibly convert somewhere like Palexpo in Geneva to be the venue but having an event next to a busy airport would be strange (then again, so is a venue in the Netherlands).

 

As for Graz, they're proposing to use Inzell and Schönau am Königsee because of the referendum in Tyrol against the Olympics, so they have to avoid any venues in the state. The DOSB is not against this; it would effectively be a home venue for them. Salzburg proposed to use Schönau in their 2014 bid when Munich in the same year was proposing to use the same venue.

What's odd is that they are not proposing to use any venues in Salzburg, which is just across the border from Schönau. Must be civic rivalry... 

Munich did not bid for 2014. And both Inzell and Königssee also suffered local referendum defeats in the 2022 campaign. I can imagine that they‘d again fail if a referendum was organised, so what goes against Igls goes against them too. Interestingly, the Graz bid and in particular its German involvement have so far received little attention in our media. Keeping low profile to avoid opposition?

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4 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Munich did not bid for 2014. And both Inzell and Königssee also suffered local referendum defeats in the 2022 campaign. I can imagine that they‘d again fail if a referendum was organised, so what goes against Igls goes against them too. Interestingly, the Graz bid and in particular its German involvement have so far received little attention in our media. Keeping low profile to avoid opposition?

Sorry - you're correct about Munich in 2014; I also did not know about those distrcts; specific vote against MunichS  2022 bid. The feasibility study for Graz is not finished yet, which is probably why this not received much publicity; few people on this forum, for example, knew that there was a map until a couple of days ago. Maybe the hope is that they can be more persuasive once their plans are ready. Maybe.

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When will Graz’s feasibility study be completed? Unlike this website, the general public can give two hoots about Olympic bids. So once that study is finished & publicized, then I’m sure we’ll start seeing more opposition within Tyrol & beyond.

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23 hours ago, FYI said:

When will Graz’s feasibility study be completed? Unlike this website, the general public can give two hoots about Olympic bids. So once that study is finished & publicized, then I’m sure we’ll start seeing more opposition within Tyrol & beyond.

The Graz 2026 website says June 2018. I can't see the tentative list of venues shifting much from those listed there, though.

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The Graz 2026 feasibility study is here (in German). There is a map (which is surprisingly in English) on pages 54-55 gives the sense of what the Austrians are proposing. They are definitely proposing to use Inzell and Schonau in Bavaria, but would rather have a third ice hockey venue in Vienna rather that Salzburg. They claim to be able to do all of this for €1.3 billion. Though most of this is in place it seems low to me...

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using Schönau and Inzell is insane - yet the only option for graz.

But it´s a really weak link in her bid.

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On 7/1/2018 at 11:14 AM, cube said:

using Schönau and Inzell is insane - yet the only option for graz.

But it´s a really weak link in her bid.

This is likely to be a regular feature of WOGs bids if the IOC ever wants a WOGs in the heart of Europe ever again. Sion proposed using Thialf in the Netherlands and Stockholm is proposing using  a sliding track in Latvia. Even Calgary is going to have to host nordic combined and ski jumping in Vancouver while most of the ice hockey games are held outside Calgary. The costs and public skepticism have lead to this. The days of the two cluster ice events and snow events are over.

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Olimpiadi Invernali 2026: il Coni deciderà la candidata a settembre. Malagò spera in un’alleanza tra Milano e Torino

Winter Olympics 2026: the CONI will decide the candidate in September. Malagò hopes for an alliance between Milan and Turin

 
What will be the Italian candidate to host the 2026 Winter Olympics? The CONI takes time, it will be decided after the summer. For Giovanni Malagò, number one in Italian sport, the time will be used to try to unify the candidacies of Milan and Turin, at least according to the Turin edition of "La Repubblica".

A commission will also be composed that will pass the candidatures to the scrutiny (there is also Cortina, ed). Malagò affirms this: "It is just a matter of reflection, and the IOC is also informed, in order to be able to make an assessment I do not say unanimous but as broad as possible. In the commission there will be Olympic and Paralympic athletes, and characters related to the world of sport. The possibility of involving people outside the world of sport was also encouraged, but I have reserved to talk about it in the end because it is a good idea but I do not want anyone to accuse us of interfering ".

The timing of the choice of the Italian candidate thus slips: "Between the end of July and the beginning of September, because we want to make an evaluation of an objective nature. The dossiers are very complex and complex, we can not talk about the typology of the Olympic village, an application or another ".

Edited by hektor

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I’m surprised you all are arguing the merits of the various “bids.” At the moment, they are only “interested parties.” The big question is how many (IF ANY) of them go the distance and make it to a vote. All the remaining “players” could still go down. 

Erzurum: venue plan? no winter sports tradition. political instability.

Stockholm: funding? 

Calgary: plebiscite? 

Italy: CONI is reliably unreliable. Italians have withdrawn from the bid process in recent memory. This plan is cobbled together and wobbly.

I’m betting at least two of the above go down in flames before a vote. Possibly all four. For me, there’s just no point in debating their respective “merits” when they all seem so uncertain. 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/28/2018 at 3:46 AM, Athensfan said:

I’m surprised you all are arguing the merits of the various “bids.” At the moment, they are only “interested parties.” The big question is how many (IF ANY) of them go the distance and make it to a vote. All the remaining “players” could still go down. 

Erzurum: venue plan? no winter sports tradition. political instability.

Stockholm: funding? 

Calgary: plebiscite? 

Italy: CONI is reliably unreliable. Italians have withdrawn from the bid process in recent memory. This plan is cobbled together and wobbly.

I’m betting at least two of the above go down in flames before a vote. Possibly all four. For me, there’s just no point in debating their respective “merits” when they all seem so uncertain.

Welcome back to the fray.

In any other cycle, the IOC would have accepted "bids" 2 years out from the vote.  This time they're going with a much more calculated approach, but given the circumstances, they almost have no choice.  We are definitely in a scenario where all 4 of those cities could wind up bidding.  Or where none of them might.

That said.. what else are we supposed to debate around here?  It gets tedious and redundant after awhile - as if I need to tell you that - but there at least are some developments on a semi-regular basis that we can react to.  There has never been more uncertainty with a bid cycle than we have right now, so it's anyone's best guess how it will play out.

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I think the problem for the IOC during this era of populism is not only cost, but the entire concept of the plebs paying for something that benefits the "elites" or the establishment. Even if it is worth the money, people don't want to help out ski industries that mostly cater to the middle and upper class.

Before the Whistler games an Olympic athlete from my state did an interview of the radio where she asked for public money for her Olympic training as her father would otherwise have to sell one of her many horses to pay for more skiing experience for her. I don't think that message would be well received today.

Edited by Nacre

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Erzurum is out, i guess the IOC was afraid it could be the only City to go the whole Distance.

 

IOC probably prefer to beg SLC to step in, instead of going to Turkey.

 

Calgary public Poll will be crucial for IOC, since i expect Stockholm and Italy to leave the race before a IOC voting session.

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