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Potential 2026 and 2028 bids

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16 hours ago, paul said:

wiki

The track was scheduled to host events in 2011-12, but was shut down due to economic costs. After pressure from the FIBT and FIL in early 2012, the track was scheduled to run in 2012-13 only to be shut down again. In October 2012, the track was ordered to be dismantled by Cesana officials. The 45 tons of ammonia was moved from the track's refrigeration for other uses within the Turin region. However, during the Sochi Olympics, President of the CONI, Giovanni Malagò, expressed the intention to ensure new investments to keep the track open.[1]

These informations are right. Bobsled track become to be too expensive to mantain and without NOC real interest to use as italian's teams training center. But one of the main (and most expensive) target in the new project is renewing the track with modern technologies (solar panel and contemporary techniques different from massive polluting ammonia to make and mantain ice surface) so that the track could be easy and more economical maintained post Games.

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3 hours ago, hektor said:

I thought the IOC does not accept bids from the country where the host city is elected ?

Rules actually stated that, but after Paris-LA double allocation I don't think that marginal rules could shut out witout exceptions an interesting and potential winning bid

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If Turin was the only serious & viable contender from Western Europe interested in the 2026 Games, the IOC would then amend their rules accordingly, just like what they did to award 2024 & 2028 together last summer.

As far as Sion goes, the real (first) test for them will come in exactly three months when Valais will hold their referendum. And considering that public opinion is already low there about the bid, I’m not putting much stock in that effort. So can’t wait for those results. ^_^ 

Stockholm & Norway have their citizens standing in the way. So unless a lot has changed there in the last couple of years in regards to the Winter Olympics (which is highly doubtful), then they’re also just a couple of nice nostalgic afterthoughts.

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18 hours ago, FYI said:

If Turin was the only serious & viable contender from Western Europe interested in the 2026 Games, the IOC would then amend their rules accordingly, just like what they did to award 2024 & 2028 together last summer.

This would really suck Milan, who had to drop interest for 2026 because they were hosting the IOC session. And I have a feeling a Milan Winter Olympics would be much better than a Turin 2.0 Olympics.

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21 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

This would really suck Milan, who had to drop interest for 2026 because they were hosting the IOC session. 

Doesn’t look like that was the case at all. Milan still looks interested.

https://gamesbids.com/eng/winter-olympic-bids/2026-olympic-bid-news/italy-could-launch-last-minute-2026-olympic-winter-games-bid/

And yes, a Milan Winter Olympics on the surface would be better than a repeat Turin Games. But of course all of that will depend on the logistics & feasibility of both plans. 

Also, I don’t think that having another race with Turin & Sion in the mix will be viewed nostalgically well by all those involved, particularly Sion & in the end the IOC.

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IOC rules are cast-iron & set in stone - until they become a hindrance, at which point they're dumped faster than you can say 'Olympic fencing champion, 1976'. If Torino is the only option for Europe or North America, the Games are surely theirs. 

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4 hours ago, FYI said:

Doesn’t look like that was the case at all. Milan still looks interested.

https://gamesbids.com/eng/winter-olympic-bids/2026-olympic-bid-news/italy-could-launch-last-minute-2026-olympic-winter-games-bid/

And yes, a Milan Winter Olympics on the surface would be better than a repeat Turin Games. But of course all of that will depend on the logistics & feasibility of both plans. 

Also, I don’t think that having another race with Turin & Sion in the mix will be viewed nostalgically well by all those involved, particularly Sion & in the end the IOC.

Didn't see this until just now! 

But speaking of Sion...

https://gamesbids.com/eng/winter-olympic-bids/2026-olympic-bid-news/sion-2026-olympic-bid-in-danger-as-referendum-could-be-switched-to-national-vote/

 

It seems like every time this bid gets some kind of hope, some new obstacle comes along. If Sion can actually make it to the final bid vote in September 2019, that will be an achievement within itself.

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Obviously a lot about the potential bids are in flux right now.  I think we won't see a clear sign of the finalists until June, July or even as late as September.  

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Or October, when the IOC will actually “invite” (whoever is left by that point) to become a finalist & formally bid.

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There have never been so many bids for a long time. But all of them have referendum or other liabilities attached so the situation can turn into 2022-like quite quickly. So fingers crossed but still deep concerns.

Regarding an Italian bid I guess the easiest fix would be to relocate the session to Lausanne or Monaco...

Edited by hektor

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It was found years ago that there were significant benefits to a city/region from being a losing Olympic bidder. My suspicion is that this created such a gravy train that it has raised the cost of bidding to the point where there's more net benefit from making a high-profile show of interest, then bowing out in deference to local opinion before the point of commitment to any of the really expensive bid nonsense.

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Well, apparently Graz has a decent chance of avoiding a referendum ; if this is the case, and since I believe any serious Alpine bid would win this time, I would make it my favorite.

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On 4/3/2018 at 6:47 PM, hektor said:

Well, apparently Graz has a decent chance of avoiding a referendum ; if this is the case, and since I believe any serious Alpine bid would win this time, I would make it my favorite.

The Austrian Communist Party is closing in on the number of signatures required for a referendum. Add to that there is still no formal goverment support for the bid along with the fact that it was basically hashed together at almost the last minute without any local citizen input and I'd predict it will probably collapse much like the Innbsruck bid did. 

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Does anybody know how serious is Stockholm bidding for the 2026 WOG? It seems that the circumstances might make the chances for Sweden to host finally the WOG. That's an actual new frontier in a quite flat, but strong winter sports tradition country. On the other hand, Stockholm would be the first western Olympic city to have hosted Summer and Winter games. :rolleyes:

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17 minutes ago, olympiaki-agones said:

Does anybody know how serious is Stockholm bidding for the 2026 WOG? It seems that the circumstances might make the chances for Sweden to host finally the WOG. That's an actual new frontier in a quite flat, but strong winter sports tradition country. On the other hand, Stockholm would be the first western Olympic city to have hosted Summer and Winter games. :rolleyes:

They're still seeking government approval, so until they get that, they're just as serious as Sion. You're right, it could be Stockholm's time, I am almost positive the IOC will invite any standing European city by October to become a final bid for 2026 and move out of candidature. However, in the meantime, they do need to secure government approval and funding before they can become official. 

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1 hour ago, olympiaki-agones said:

Well, I really would love to see the Olympics in Sweden. The world does not remember their summer edition back in 1912.

I would support Stockholm, but not over Sion, Calgary, or Graz. I think 2026 will be pivotal in determining the future of Winter Olympics, and I know Stockholm could certainly deliver a Great games, but the distance between ice and snow events is horrendous, and will be for everyone involved: athletes, media/other personnel, and spectators. If a city like Calgary, Graz or Sion (the latter two also being rather spread out but certainly not as much, and the Swiss's extensive rail network accommodates for it), where the events aren't 2+ hours apart, runs against Stockholm, I don't think there's a reason for the IOC to establish a new precedent or "new norm" when we really don't need to. Beijing will be hard enough, but that bullet train should help. If it's a necessary norm for the IOC to create because no city that has all the needed infrastructure close enough wants to bid, then fine. But if a city like Calgary is in the race, I don't see Stockholm winning.

 

Between Sapporo or Erzurum, Stockholm for me hands down. If it's Turin or Cortina for Italy, Stockholm for me as well, but if it's Milan, I'd pick Milan over Stockholm. Though, I do not think Stockholm will win against Sion, Calgary or Graz. However, those three are the three most deliberated bids at the moment, so I will not be surprised if one or all of them drop out. That will open the door for Stockholm. 

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Besides that GB’s gives Stockholm the least likely of all the Euro bids being there come vote day in Sept. 2019 at 20% (& the rest of them not much better, like Sion at only 25%), I still think that you’re making too much of Stockholm’s distance to Are. It’s also been talked about using Whistler’s venue for a Calgary 2026 bid. If that were to be the case in order to reduce costs even further, then your argument against Stockholm totally goes out the window. The same goes for a potential Denver 2030 bid using Park City for some of the mountain sports in order to keep costs down. Stockholm to Are would be a walk down the street in comparison to those two NA distances. 

I don’t see Calgary overtaking any Western European winter bid, even Stockholm’s. The IOC would jump on Stockholm if that happened to be the only European bid left. Sweden hasn’t hosted any kind of Olympics since 1912 (& no Winter Olympics, despite being a traditional winter sports nation), while Canada has hosted three Olympics & the last one being a Winter Games just as recent in 2010. That will also be a factor in favor of Sweden. I only view Calgary as a “better than Sapporo (Asia again) & absoslutely fricken better than (despot) Erzurum” if all of Europe happened to bail out (again) of the 2026 race. 

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So, of the 4 Euro bids @ the starting gate, it appears that only the Italian and Swiss bids are entirely mono-national.  The Swedish and Austrian bids are both bi-national.  So, I think that ideally puts Sion in #1 position right now; I think Austria-Germany #2; Sweden #3 - and Italy (also, like Sweden and Calgary, waiting for gov't support) at a distant 4th, and also because of the recent 2006 hosting.   So @ this stage, 2026 is Sion's and the Austro-German bids to lose.  

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3 hours ago, FYI said:

Besides that GB’s gives Stockholm the least likely of all the Euro bids being there come vote day in Sept. 2019 at 20% (& the rest of them not much better, like Sion at only 25%), I still think that you’re making too much of Stockholm’s distance to Are. It’s also been talked about using Whistler’s venue for a Calgary 2026 bid. If that were to be the case in order to reduce costs even further, then your argument against Stockholm totally goes out the window. The same goes for a potential Denver 2030 bid using Park City for some of the mountain sports in order to keep costs down. Stockholm to Are would be a walk down the street in comparison to those two NA distances. 

I don’t see Calgary overtaking any Western European winter bid, even Stockholm’s. The IOC would jump on Stockholm if that happened to be the only European bid left. Sweden hasn’t hosted any kind of Olympics since 1912 (& no Winter Olympics, despite being a traditional winter sports nation), while Canada has hosted three Olympics & the last one being a Winter Games just as recent in 2010. That will also be a factor in favor of Sweden. I only view Calgary as a “better than Sapporo (Asia again) & absoslutely fricken better than (despot) Erzurum” if all of Europe happened to bail out (again) of the 2026 race. 

I understand why you think a Western European bid will overtake Calgary, although I would love to see Calgary host, I know that if Sion sticks around, it will likely go to them. Calgary will be one of those cities that will likely want to bid once the Olympics get a positive image in the eyes of the public, I don't think Switzerland will garner this type of support again if they go all the way through and ultimately lose.

 

But, relating to Stockholm/Are, one event in Whistler is MUCH different than half of the events 7.5 hours away by car. We see this with landlocked Summer Olympic cities often with sailing; Atlanta 1996 had sailing in the Wassaw Sound near Savannah/Tybee Island, about 4 hours from Atlanta, and Paris 2024 will have sailing in Marseilles, 7.5 hours away. So, that is not uncommon and is completely understandable for one event to be in a faraway place due to physical, uncontrollable deficits. However, doing half of the Olympic events in Are will be such an organizational mess. Even if some events are in Park City for Denver (which I just searched is 10 minutes longer than the distance from Stockholm-Are but also is on major highway 80 with much more development along the way, making the drive easier for anybody who doesn't go by air), Denver will still be able to have most of the mountain events on their own mountains in the Rockies. I'm actually surprised they even suggested using Park City when they really don't need to. But, I can live with an event or two in Whistler or Park City with the respective Olympics in Calgary or Denver, but setting an unneeded precedent with Stockholm/Are seems premature and unnecessary.

 

That's great you view Calgary that way, I do not ^_^ I don't not support Stockholm, but I don't feel like it is worth the risk/stress when we have other cities with similar costs, and not of these problems.  I personally think Sion has the best chance  if they make it all the way through, with Calgary as the 2nd. 

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I'm not sure compactness matters that much. The athletes won't really be moving (except for, perhaps, the  closing ceremony); Sochi and Turin had three villages while Vancouver and PyeongChang had two, so the structure will just be replicated over a longer distance. The only people moving between clusters quickly with be VVIP Olympic Family, and they will likely just fly on special OCOG charter flights. (They generally get helicopters take them to sailing events at the summer games, for example.) The main people "suffering" will be fans who want to see both snow and ice sports on the same day, but the ability to do that has also varied in recent games.

I also don't understand why Graz is highly favoured, as It is not a compact bid. The bid website has the following map:

olympia_map.png

The speed skating oval at Insell (the top red dot in Germany) is five hours from Graz by train. This is a spread-out bid, which runs the risk of being a repeat of Albertville 1992 (which used no fewer than seven athlete hotels and where tans). The one thing you can say about Stockholm (and I am not promoting the city) is that within it's clusters it is a pretty compact bid, as the map below shows.

stockholm.jpg

As I said I am not pushing Stockholm. It probably is the best test case for the Agenda 2020 and New Norm reforms, as if they can pull it off and still maintain a good atmosphere then more European countries (like Germany) would be likely to bid with existing venues. It's biggest problem is political support (like Calgary) and if it get past that it stands a pretty good chance, which is why the Swedish Olympic Committee is still taking this forward as far as it can.

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, anthonyliberatori said:

But, relating to Stockholm/Are, one event in Whistler is MUCH different than half of the events 7.5 hours away by car.

Is it really that different, though? We’ve already had some taste at seperating the Winter Games into two clusters on a couple of different occasions already with Vancouver 2010 & Turin 2006. Both had seperate ice & snow clusters & seperate villages at least a couple of hours away from the main host cluster. Especially with the winter Games getting so big now, having & demanding everything in one place is unfeasible now & can create just as much of an “organizational mess” than having some things farther apart.

43 minutes ago, anthonyliberatori said:

but setting an unneeded precedent with Stockholm/Are seems premature and unnecessary.

I don’t see how it’s an ‘unneeded precedent’ when the IOC needs to show how “flexible” they claim they really are now in a major region that no longer seems to trust them & they need to get that trust back as soon as they can. 

49 minutes ago, anthonyliberatori said:

That's great you view Calgary that way, I do not ^_^ I don't not support Stockholm, but I don't feel like it is worth the risk/stress when we have other cities with similar costs, and not of these problems.  I personally think Sion has the best chance  if they make it all the way through, with Calgary as the 2nd. 

To quote one of my favorite posters around here: “good for you” :D that you ‘don’t’ view Calgary that way. But I still do. You’ve already claimed that would like to see Calgary host but don’t see it happening if Sion somehow survives all the way ‘til vote day. So that means that you’re partial towards Calgary & your views about them are as such & therefore aren’t really objective. But I’m just looking at things as a casual observer. Not “supporting” any of the bids, just looking at how it’s playing out.

I also see Salt Lake 2030 & the USOC knocking on the IOC’s back door as a handicap for Calgary 2026 as well (as also even mentioned in a GB article). The IOC will be hesitate of wanting to have two back-to-back NA Winter Olympics & will try to avoid that as best as possible. But all of this back & forth may not even matter as early as June when both Calgary & Sion have the potential of downright disappearing from the 2026 bidding landscape. 

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33 minutes ago, Smitty said:

I'm not sure compactness matters that much. The athletes won't really be moving (except for, perhaps, the  closing ceremony); Sochi and Turin had three villages while Vancouver and PyeongChang had two, so the structure will just be replicated over a longer distance. 

Exactly - compactness, especially in the Winter Olympics as of late is becoming more & more non-existant. The culprit is that the Winter Games have grown exponentially over the last couple of decades & the small villages/cities of the past can’t handle them all on their own now.

37 minutes ago, Smitty said:

I also don't understand why Graz is highly favoured, as It is not a compact bid. The bid website has the following map:

olympia_map.png

The speed skating oval at Insell (the top red dot in Germany) is five hours from Graz by train. This is a spread-out bid, which runs the risk of being a repeat of Albertville 1992 (which used no fewer than seven athlete hotels and where tans). The one thing you can say about Stockholm (and I am not promoting the city) is that within it's clusters it is a pretty compact bid, as the map below shows.

stockholm.jpg

As I said I am not pushing Stockholm. It probably is the best test case for the Agenda 2020 and New Norm reforms, as if they can pull it off and still maintain a good atmosphere then more European countries (like Germany) would be likely to bid with existing venues. It's biggest problem is political support (like Calgary) and if it get past that it stands a pretty good chance, which is why the Swedish Olympic Committee is still taking this forward as far as it can.

I didn’t realize that Graz was that spread out, so thanks for the input. Sion is also pretty spread out over several cantons. And you’re right - while Stockholm & Are are far apart, at least once you’re there within the two clusters, it’s the most compact out of the 2026 Euro lot in terms of not having a whole bunch of venues/events spread out over an entire region. That then negates Stockholm’s distance to Are, IMHO.

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3 hours ago, FYI said:

I didn’t realize that Graz was that spread out, so thanks for the input. Sion is also pretty spread out over several cantons. And you’re right - while Stockholm & Are are far apart, at least once you’re there within the two clusters, it’s the most compact out of the 2026 Euro lot in terms of not having a whole bunch of venues/events spread out over an entire region. That then negates Stockholm’s distance to Are, IMHO.

The Swedish-Stockholm bid has earmarked Sigulda in Latvia, as its 3rd cluster, to take care of the sliding sports.  

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6 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

The Swedish-Stockholm bid has earmarked Sigulda in Latvia, as its 3rd cluster, to take care of the sliding sports.  

It's the second stand-alone venue, actually. If you look at the Stockholm map you'll see that they are proposing to use the jumps in Falun (3 hours north of Stockholm) for ski jumping and Nordic Combined. I actually hope that they add the ski stadium in Östersund for biathlon; it's a good venue, and Åre is less than 100 km away.

 

All - apologies for typos in my last post. On Albertville I meant to say that the transport system was stretched, and many attendees found getting to events on narrow mountain roads less than ideal. Those Games made the IOC move away from the "regional" winter games concept, and I am not sure that the pendulum has fully moved back.

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