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Potential 2026 and 2028 bids

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5 hours ago, Nacre said:

I think they need to formally break up the snow and ice sports. Let Stockholm host the ice events and Switzerland host the snow events and the Winter Olympics instantly become more manageable for the host cities.

I don’t think it needs to be that drastic, We’ve already seen acceptance of a more split games in the selection of hosts like Vancouver-Whistler or Beijing-wherever it is they have their mountains. Whether you think they’re sincere or not, the IOC has already said through Agenda 2020 that they’ll accept more spread-out regional games (and even bi-national hostings) and I do think they were sincere, for example, when they were suggesting to Korea that the Nagano bobsled facilities could have been used for PyeongChang. I don’t think it’s out of the realms of possibility that the IOC coul in future choose a Seattle-anchored Washington state bid, or even a NYC-anchored NY State winter bid (Madison Square Garden on ice, anyone?).

That said, of course a more centralised and compact bid plan is always probably going to be viewed as more attractive - when it’s on the table. But it’s always going to be up to what they have to choose from. I don’t think it’s too wild a suggestion to guess that Stockholm-Are may well have easily emerged as the 2022 host had it stayed in the race against Beijing and Almaty.

It’s probably a good sign that he IOC are more proactively working with potential hosts before the official bids are declared. Don’t doubt for a momen that they know they have to be a bit more flexible and accommodating.

Edited by Sir Rols

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4 hours ago, Nacre said:

There simply are not too many locations that have all of the required physical features for the winter games. That results in either an extremely restricted pool of host cities or a massive building spree in new hosting regions like Pyeongchang or Sochi.

My home state of Washington is technically capable of hosting the winter games. We have a ski resort with the required vertical drop, the snowiest ski resort in the world that's also home to the oldest existing snowboarding tournament in the world, a biathlon center, and a currently run-down ski hill that hosted many national championships from the 50's to 70's. Unfortunately they are all in different locations and are far from our big city. Stockholm, Krakow/Slovakia, Milan, Denver, upstate New York, etc all have that problem.

I think they need to formally break up the snow and ice sports. Let Stockholm host the ice events and Switzerland host the snow events and the Winter Olympics instantly become more manageable for the host cities.

That's already the basis of Stockholm 2026, most of the events (ice and ceremonies) being held in Stockholm, and the remaining events (snow) in Åre. Should Ostersund come out of the woodwork, that problem could be mitigated, but Ostersund, like Pyeongchang, would require lots of money spent on venues and infrastructure in order to accommodate the vast amount of tourists. Loses the cheap budget appeal that these European host cities need in order to secure a bid. 

 

Sion 2026 is also very spread out, with numerous clusters and very long transit times required between all of them. It could be made easy by the good rail network in Switzerland, but it will still be a very spread out bid. I think the IOC should stick with same country bids before they jump into dual-country bids, because then it will become very hard for tourists and media to attend numerous events, and the country hosting the snow events will get much less money and attention from the deal. Unless the country hosting the snow events was France, Austria, Germany, or any other country with a strong ski/snowboard team would they have a good shot of making a lot of money on snow events over ice events. But all of those countries could host all events by themselves in a centralized city/area, so again, it's just not justified. 

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58 minutes ago, anthonyliberatori said:

That's already the basis of Stockholm 2026, most of the events (ice and ceremonies) being held in Stockholm, and the remaining events (snow) in Åre.

Unfortunately it will be very difficult for visitors to get to Are, and there are not enough hotel rooms or local people there. A seven to eight hour bus trip each way is not reasonable for a day trip for the Olympic fans, media and athletes. Nor are the 1,417 residents of Are enough to adequately staff the alpine portion of the Winter Olympics.

It would be better for everyone if Sweden were able to host with an established resort that has adequate tourism infrastructure. Even if that resort is in the Alps.

4 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I don’t think it needs to be that drastic, We’ve already seen acceptance of a more split games in the selection of hots iLife Vancouver-Whistler or Beijing-wherever it is they have their mountains.

Of course, but that simply shows how this is an inevitable process anyway.

Edited by Nacre

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2 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Unfortunately it will be very difficult for visitors to get to Are, and there are not enough hotel rooms or local people there. A seven to eight hour bus trip each way is not reasonable for a day trip for the Olympic fans, media and athletes.

It would be better for everyone if Sweden were able to host with an established resort that has adequate tourism infrastructure. Even if that resort is in the Alps.

It’s not ideal, but as you say, it seems to be an inevitable process that at some stage we’ll get a winter games where we’re gonna get such a split and spectators are gonna have to divide complete days between mountain and ice events rather than take in both in a single day. Stockholm-Are would still be more manageable logistically and more marketable than Stockholm-Zermatt.

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10 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Unfortunately it will be very difficult for visitors to get to Are, and there are not enough hotel rooms or local people there. A seven to eight hour bus trip each way is not reasonable for a day trip for the Olympic fans, media and athletes. Nor are the 1,417 residents of Are enough to adequately staff the alpine portion of the Winter Olympics.

It would be better for everyone if Sweden were able to host with an established resort that has adequate tourism infrastructure. Even if that resort is in the Alps.

Of course, but that simply shows how this is an inevitable process anyway.

You're correct, it is an inevitable process. We have had successful smaller Games, like Lillehammer, and successful larger Games, like Vancouver. It also proves that it is a host-specific issue, not an Olympic issue. It is also obvious that the issue is not the IOC's strict requirements, but the fact that some countries/cities clearly don't want to. Germany and Austria have the infrastructure and meet the conditions, but neither have hosted Olympics in years. Both also seem unlikely to do so in the current state, unless Graz somehow pulls through.

 

But while on the topic of Sweden, they won't get a Winter Olympics even with Stockholm as the anchor IMO. They have tried for years, between small town bids like Are, and larger-area bids like Falun and Ostersund, and they have continuously failed. Even with Stockholm as the anchor and Are with the snow events, it then becomes the Lake Placid-NYC argument, and that's before we even talk about the conditions of Are or the region. As you stated, the population is too small and cannot support an Olympics, and neither could Lake Placid now, and proved so in 1980 as the Winter Games started to get too large. It's not Sweden's fault that they're geographically disadvantaged for the Winter Olympics requirements, but they do not have a shot against a Canadian bid, especially one from Calgary, or a Swiss or Austrian bid, if they can finally get one through. Plus, although spread out, the Swiss and Austrian bids will have reliable train/highway routes, as the bidding areas already have strong winter tourism infrastructure, and money will go more towards area improvement rather than new venue/infrastructure construction. Hell, I think the IOC would even have a third WOG in Asian and give it to Sapporo in 2026 over Sweden. Sapporo has already proven a successful WOG host, and Stockholm seems like Sweden's last resort of getting a Winter Olympics. I just don't think they have a viable shot, and as stated, if Calgary, Sion or Graz go through, game over for Stockholm. Just my opinion. And it really sucks for Sweden, but maybe they will be one of those nations that could host the Olympics, but chooses not to. Germany has always been an amazing host option, but has bid very few times since after WW2 and has lost all of them. They obviously were  not too eager to host, as they could've bid for more Games. Sweden may be forced into doing the same thing, not hosting a Games, despite being a huge winter sports nation. Not because they don't want to, but just that it just isn't feasible or worth the hassle, for the Swedes, IOC, athletes and tourists alike.

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9 hours ago, Nacre said:

There simply are not too many locations that have all of the required physical features for the winter games. That results in either an extremely restricted pool of host cities or a massive building spree in new hosting regions like Pyeongchang or Sochi.

My home state of Washington is technically capable of hosting the winter games. We have a ski resort with the required vertical drop, the snowiest ski resort in the world that's also home to the oldest existing snowboarding tournament in the world, a biathlon center, and a currently run-down ski hill that hosted many national championships from the 50's to 70's. Unfortunately they are all in different locations and are far from our big city. Stockholm, Krakow/Slovakia, Milan, Denver, upstate New York, etc all have that problem.

I think they need to formally break up the snow and ice sports. Let Stockholm host the ice events and Switzerland host the snow events and the Winter Olympics instantly become more manageable for the host cities.

 

I thought about a Seattle-based WOG a while back and I've always been told the issue would be hostility towards any potential environmental impact. I assume you are referring to Crystal Mountain as a downhill venue. which has the vertical drop requirement but not the acres needed to there'd have to be some clearing done. My understanding is that's why Crystal Mountain hasn't hosted any championship runs since then, it's too small.  BTW I will be making my first visit to Seattle this summer to visit a sibling who's takinga job as a travelling nurse there and I'm looking forward to it.

Stockholm and someone else mentioned a NYC-Lake Placid concept (this was mentioned in the Dallas Morning News about a year ago in a short blip but nothing was ever mentioned after that. Proposal was ice events in NYC, ski and snowboarding at Lake Placid and Gore Mountain with the ceremonies at Yankee Stadium). Stockholm-Are aith Lillehammer for sliding events may have seemed like a bogus concept at one point, but it's all the more likely now if the IOC ever wants a WOG in Europe again. Sure the compact concept is always preferrable (I think that's one reason that Salt Lake CIty is the frontrunner for the next U.S. candidate over Denver or Reno) but it's becoming less likely due to the costs invovled. As I stated earlier, that concept is probably out the window if the IOC ever wants Austria or Switzerland to host again. It needs to be country-wide. Both Austria and Switzerland have good transport links and the days of spectators catching snow and ice events in one day are slimmer but what choice does the IOC have? Even Calgary is planning for ice hockey events throughout Canada because the city cannot get a new arena for the Flames built. Remember Helsinki's concept fror their 2006 bid (Lillehammer hosting the downhill)? That's much mre likely in today's bidding climate. It's not the most desirable but that's what it's going to take to get traditional European winter sports countries serious about hosting again.

If the IOC has a choice between Sweden using Are and Lillehammer or Almaty, is the IOC really going to give the WOG to another de facto dictatorship over a country with a traditional winter sports history despite the logistics involved? I think not.

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15 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I don’t think it needs to be that drastic, We’ve already seen acceptance of a more split games in the selection of hosts like Vancouver-Whistler or Beijing-wherever it is they have their mountains. Whether you think they’re sincere or not, the IOC has already said through Agenda 2020 that they’ll accept more spread-out regional games (and even bi-national hostings) and I do think they were sincere, for example, when they were suggesting to Korea that the Nagano bobsled facilities could have been used for PyeongChang. I don’t think it’s out of the realms of possibility that the IOC coul in future choose a Seattle-anchored Washington state bid, or even a NYC-anchored NY State winter bid (Madison Square Garden on ice, anyone?).

That said, of course a more centralised and compact bid plan is always probably going to be viewed as more attractive - when it’s on the table. But it’s always going to be up to what they have to choose from. I don’t think it’s too wild a suggestion to guess that Stockholm-Are may well have easily emerged as the 2022 host had it stayed in the race against Beijing and Almaty.

It’s probably a good sign that he IOC are more proactively working with potential hosts before the official bids are declared. Don’t doubt for a momen that they know they have to be a bit more flexible and accommodating.

I feel the same too.  I've seen others raise the "not logistically ideal" argument, but the way the IOC dealt with the bidding process the last few years (along with FIFA's decision to give Qatar a winter World Cup) leads me to believe that the IOC will roll with the times and adapt as needed.  If a spread out Stockholm-Are bid is the only way for Sweden to host, and if they are up against opposition as weak as the 2022 candidates in the future, then I could see the IOC giving Sweden the Games.  Is Stockholm-Are ideal from a compact point of view?  Probably not.  Is it doable?  I don't see why not. 

And from a marketing/romantic point of view, it's way more attractive than splitting the Winter Games in two countries like Sweden/Switzerland even if (and I don't know if this is true) you can fly between the two countries faster than you can bus from Stockholm-Are.  Just one of those things where the IOC will suck it up for two weeks, but they get to have an attractive "Sweden 20XX" Games go into the history books, knowing no one will care about the minor details about logistics decades later.

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10 hours ago, stryker said:

I thought about a Seattle-based WOG a while back and I've always been told the issue would be hostility towards any potential environmental impact. I assume you are referring to Crystal Mountain as a downhill venue. which has the vertical drop requirement but not the acres needed to there'd have to be some clearing done. My understanding is that's why Crystal Mountain hasn't hosted any championship runs since then, it's too small. 

Yes, that's essentially the issue. Seattle has small ski areas in our National Parks instead of a huge resort town like Whistler. The sports facilities are achievable for us but the hotels, roads, etc are not.

10 hours ago, stryker said:

BTW I will be making my first visit to Seattle this summer to visit a sibling who's takinga job as a travelling nurse there and I'm looking forward to it.

If you can scrape up the money for the Chihuly Museum and Teatro Zinzanni you should see them, but they are both expensive. If you are on a budget Pioneer Square and Seattle Center usually have free public concerts and art. Boeing's Museum of Flight is also free and pretty great.

If you have access to a car and have the time you should see the rainforest and the volcanic eruption at Mount St Helens.

Edited by Nacre

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On 24/2/2018 at 3:56 AM, anthonyliberatori said:

That's already the basis of Stockholm 2026, most of the events (ice and ceremonies) being held in Stockholm, and the remaining events (snow) in Åre. Should Ostersund come out of the woodwork, that problem could be mitigated, but Ostersund, like Pyeongchang, would require lots of money spent on venues and infrastructure in order to accommodate the vast amount of tourists. Loses the cheap budget appeal that these European host cities need in order to secure a bid. 

 

Sion 2026 is also very spread out, with numerous clusters and very long transit times required between all of them. It could be made easy by the good rail network in Switzerland, but it will still be a very spread out bid. I think the IOC should stick with same country bids before they jump into dual-country bids, because then it will become very hard for tourists and media to attend numerous events, and the country hosting the snow events will get much less money and attention from the deal. Unless the country hosting the snow events was France, Austria, Germany, or any other country with a strong ski/snowboard team would they have a good shot of making a lot of money on snow events over ice events. But all of those countries could host all events by themselves in a centralized city/area, so again, it's just not justified. 

I don't understand why it's a problem to have spread out bid ? Do you need to see Alpin ski the morning, Skeleton the afternoon and Ice skating the evening in the same day when you are spectator ? I think not. Usually you come to a place to see one sport per day. Maybe one the morning and another one the evening, I did this sometimes. When you are a supporter or spectator you don't need to see everything in the same day... Really the main part of supporters come to a place to see their favorite sport and after they enjoy the day to visit the village or the city close to the venues, they don't need to go immediately to another competition in another location... It happens like this in reality, I never heard someone who would like to see more than two competitions in one day, excepting some IOC members maybe.

Swiss can bid with Sion even venues are spread, the atmosphere and show will be better than in Sotchi and PC or Beijing, everybody knows that fact. You should change how you imagine WoG. 

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Stockholm should partner with Lillehammer. It's around the same distance as Are and has the existing infrastructure. Any other concept is doomed.

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57 minutes ago, Tulsa said:

Swiss can bid with Sion even venues are spread, the atmosphere and show will be better than in Sotchi and PC or Beijing, everybody knows that fact. You should change how you imagine WoG. 

Says the one who refuses to imagine a Winter Olympics in any place other than Europe or North America.... :rolleyes:

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7 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

Says the one who refuses to imagine a Winter Olympics in any place other than Europe or North America.... :rolleyes:

Japan too, but Korea aren't China good for WoG. Athletes and public opinion criticisms these choice... 

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7 hours ago, FYI said:

This is from last month, but it’s a good little read, nonetheless.

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1FQ15M

Of course they can't exclude Asian cities.  If they had done that for 2022 on the heels on PyeongChang, they wouldn't have had any bidders!

I think we all know that the IOC would prefer to go anywhere other than Asia.  But if their options are hold the Olympics in Asia or not hold the Olympics at all, that's not really a tough call there

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Lillehammer 2026 or 2030 ?????? The fact that we could possibly have Calgary and Lillehammer, or Salt Lake City and Lillehammer, competing for the Olympics is good news .... let's hope they all stay in tact. Do you think Norway could push forward?

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If Sapporo bids, Japan will probably win. 

Swiss like every time will say no to the referendum

Public opinion and politic will be against for Lillehammer, like for Austria. 

Stockholm isn't a reasonable bid and Swedish opinion will be against like in Norway

Calgary may be the only opponent to Sapporo... But they need politic approval... 

2026 won't be in Europe. 

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1 minute ago, Tulsa said:

If Sapporo bids, Japan will probably win. 

Swiss like every time will say no to the referendum

Public opinion and politic will be against for Lillehammer, like for Austria. 

Stockholm isn't a reasonable bid and Swedish opinion will be against like in Norway

Calgary may be the only opponent to Sapporo... But they need politic approval... 

2026 won't be in Europe. 

I think the exact opposite ...

 

The IOC will (or, better, should) do whatever it possibly can at this point in time to make sure the 2026 Olympics go to someone who will bring back bids from the traditional nations. While Sapporo was a successful host and would host an amazing Olympics, in the eyes of the IOC, it should sit second to a bid from the USA, Canada, or any Western/Northern European bid, minus Stockholm. The IOC has said Asian cities will not be excluded, but that is likely due to the growing momentum on the continent towards the Olympics... They just got done with their first of three consecutive Games, and although you disagree, it turned out rather successful. There is a lot of talk in Asia right now to try and bid for another. But, the talk among the rest of the planet, among the nations who won most of the medals at PC, and among potential host cities globally differs from that of Asia. I agree with your comment above that 2026 in Asia would be a bad move by the IOC. However, I think they're aware of that, and should prevent it from happening. 

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I'm agree with you too, but what's happen if like for 2022 all the European or even North American bids give up ? We could have the same story. 

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12 minutes ago, Tulsa said:

I'm agree with you too, but what's happen if like for 2022 all the European or even North American bids give up ? We could have the same story. 

With any Olympics, host cities could drop out. Hell, Denver dropped out after it was granted rights, and halfway through its waiting time. Can't fully worry about that though, it's only ever happened once from a city that was extremely polarized about the topic to begin with. The hope is that if Sion or Calgary can make it through to the final voting stage, they will be elected in. Because Pyeonchang wasn't the fiscal disaster that Sochi was, I'm hoping the possible host cities do not drop out between now and next year.

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Yesterday in Turin Chamber of Commerce has been revealed Italian project for a new Torino2026 candidature, based on legacy coming from 2006 Games. Despite expectations, mayor of Turin Chiara Appendino (belonging to same party as Rome's mayor Raggi that killed Rome2020 process) has confirmed intention to join the challenge, signing expressions of interest within the bids declaration deadline of 31th March.

Mixing recent know-how and new IOC guidelines for future bids, Torino2026 will set up a substainibily model of Games aimed at innovating and renewing existing infrastructures without significant public expenses or waste of money for new facilities as pharaonic as useless post-games. Torino and his mountains could come back to offer their close and well linked two-cluster scheme, full of beatiful landscapes, real snow, history, culture, art and entertainment, evolving original strenght and style of their first Big City (and surroundings) Winter Games with digital innovations, environmental policies and passionate support.

Torino2006 was the succesful bet of Gianni Agnelli, first supporter and guarantor for that bid, unfortunately dead prior to see the Games takes place. He dreamed for his city a chance to change skin from the industrial city of 20th century to the fascinating destination, historical but innovative, on these modern times, and 2006 games helping well to hit this target. In latest years Juventus Turin football team, leaded from generations by Agnelli's family, is still a great example of how experience, hard work and attention to benchmark models, could renew and improve sporting and economical achievements, even against competitors supported by billionaires investments (like teams owned by rich scheiks and magnates) but not as passionate and concrete.

Therefore, with the utmost respect for all other bids that arise, let's give it a chance also at Torino2026 project that, if it manages to overcome their political controversies and make good use of their own past lacks, could become a serious candidate to host next not-asian Winter Games.

 

 

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What’s the status of Torino’s bobsled track? I thought they shut it?

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wiki

The track was scheduled to host events in 2011-12, but was shut down due to economic costs. After pressure from the FIBT and FIL in early 2012, the track was scheduled to run in 2012-13 only to be shut down again. In October 2012, the track was ordered to be dismantled by Cesana officials. The 45 tons of ammonia was moved from the track's refrigeration for other uses within the Turin region. However, during the Sochi Olympics, President of the CONI, Giovanni Malagò, expressed the intention to ensure new investments to keep the track open.[1]

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18 hours ago, gliz06 said:

Yesterday in Turin Chamber of Commerce has been revealed Italian project for a new Torino2026 candidature, based on legacy coming from 2006 Games. Despite expectations, mayor of Turin Chiara Appendino (belonging to same party as Rome's mayor Raggi that killed Rome2020 process) has confirmed intention to join the challenge, signing expressions of interest within the bids declaration deadline of 31th March.

Mixing recent know-how and new IOC guidelines for future bids, Torino2026 will set up a substainibily model of Games aimed at innovating and renewing existing infrastructures without significant public expenses or waste of money for new facilities as pharaonic as useless post-games. Torino and his mountains could come back to offer their close and well linked two-cluster scheme, full of beatiful landscapes, real snow, history, culture, art and entertainment, evolving original strenght and style of their first Big City (and surroundings) Winter Games with digital innovations, environmental policies and passionate support.

Torino2006 was the succesful bet of Gianni Agnelli, first supporter and guarantor for that bid, unfortunately dead prior to see the Games takes place. He dreamed for his city a chance to change skin from the industrial city of 20th century to the fascinating destination, historical but innovative, on these modern times, and 2006 games helping well to hit this target. In latest years Juventus Turin football team, leaded from generations by Agnelli's family, is still a great example of how experience, hard work and attention to benchmark models, could renew and improve sporting and economical achievements, even against competitors supported by billionaires investments (like teams owned by rich scheiks and magnates) but not as passionate and concrete.

Therefore, with the utmost respect for all other bids that arise, let's give it a chance also at Torino2026 project that, if it manages to overcome their political controversies and make good use of their own past lacks, could become a serious candidate to host next not-asian Winter Games.

 

 

I thought the IOC does not accept bids from the country where the host city is elected ?

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Turin 2006 was good but I think if WoG comeback in Europe it will be better in a smaller city than Turin and closer to the mountains. WoG need to back to a village atmosphere and to be more authentic, like Lillehammer, Albertville, Innsbruck etc. 

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