Potential 2026 and 2028 bids

[Barcelona_'92]

If it looks like Sapporo is going to be the only bid for 2026, I think there will be a big push to get Salt Lake into the race.  Salt Lake also has almost all venues ready and could easily step in to host 2026 if needed.  I just don’t see much support for three straight Winter Games in Asia if there is any other option.

[anthonyliberatori]

1 hour ago, Barcelona_'92 said:

If it looks like Sapporo is going to be the only bid for 2026, I think there will be a big push to get Salt Lake into the race.  Salt Lake also has almost all venues ready and could easily step in to host 2026 if needed.  I just don’t see much support for three straight Winter Games in Asia if there is any other option.

I'm with you, but I don't think it will be that way. Calgary looks like it's heading in the right direction, and I know the IOC knows that Calgary, like Munich, will be a one and done bid. If they lose, they will likely not try again for many years. I think if Calgary secures a bid for 2026, it's safe to assume they have a very high chance. If Sion can also make it through, they will also have a high chance. Sapporo is a very viable option for the IOC, but having three straight in Asia will not help gain bid cities in Europe and North America that have been on the decline recently. With winter sports on the rise in Asia, and hopefully the successes of Pyeongchang and Beijing, Sapporo will be a good bid for the 2030 Games in 2023 if they choose to go against the USA, or for 2034 if they lose. I just have a feeling given all of these recent measures to cut costs to bring back host cities that they are going to take their chances on cities like Calgary and Munich, which could (and in both cases, have) host successful Olympics but have recently been swayed away due to costs, not Asian cities that just use "high populations" as their sway factor. We are now seeing firsthand how those "large populations" become small due to political situations, as the Olympics have already started in PyeongChang and the ticket sale percentage is still below 80% of the target. 

[Tulsa]

Is it possible to have another WoG without European cities to bid ? 
Which country in Europe is able to bid without public support ? 

[Returning Moose]

At least it is unlikely that any Norwegian bids will come forward. There are still too many pissed off people from the two previous attempts, and after Sochi the general  idea of spending billions on a WOG and hence indirectly supporting IOC has little popular support. 

If I were a part of IOC, I would now be desperate to get the WOG back to Europe or North America were the real winter sport interest is, or they risk to slowly become less relevant. It is good to diversify, but after three WOGs in Asia (Sochi is also Asian by many definitions) they'd better off focusing a bit on the core winter markets. The problem is, that IOC' reputation after Sochi is still shattered, even if some positive steps have been taken lately. 

[anthonyliberatori]

On 2/17/2018 at 8:20 AM, Returning Moose said:

At least it is unlikely that any Norwegian bids will come forward. There are still too many pissed off people from the two previous attempts, and after Sochi the general  idea of spending billions on a WOG and hence indirectly supporting IOC has little popular support. 

If I were a part of IOC, I would now be desperate to get the WOG back to Europe or North America were the real winter sport interest is, or they risk to slowly become less relevant. It is good to diversify, but after three WOGs in Asia (Sochi is also Asian by many definitions) they'd better off focusing a bit on the core winter markets. The problem is, that IOC' reputation after Sochi is still shattered, even if some positive steps have been taken lately. 

You're correct. Pyeongchang is turning out mostly successful (knock on wood) and Beijing's cost is very low, so hopefully more cities will be interested after these two Olympics are over. But having cities like Sion, Stockholm, Calgary, Salt Lake City and Denver interested in future WOG is VERY good. I know they have Sapporo as an option as well but I agree with you, the Games need to return to the Rockies or Alps if they want to keep up the longevity of the Winter Olympics and host cities. I'm hoping Calgary goes all the way through, because the IOC would be stupid not to pick a city who is experienced, and was very successful when they hosted. Also given the nature of how that bid has come to be, I feel that it will be a very long time until they get interest again if they lose, so I hope the IOC is picking up on that. With the USA already saying Salt Lake is interested in 2030, the IOC could be on its way to dodging a bullet, hopefully. I just hope they make the right decisions and move away from glitz and glamour and back to legacy and opportunity. 

[StefanMUC]

56 minutes ago, anthonyliberatori said:

Beijing's cost is very low,

Seriously? Let's wait and see (and not believe propaganda from Beijing or Lausanne)...

[anthonyliberatori]

4 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Seriously? Let's wait and see (and not believe propaganda from Beijing or Lausanne)...

At the moment it is rather cheap, and the IOC claims it will be the first Olympics under the "new set of norms". I'm not saying it'll stay at the $3.Whatever Billion it claimed when it was awarded, but hopefully the IOC won't allow it to go up too much because they know the future depends on Beijing not going crazy. I'm not fully believing the propaganda at all, because this is Beijing we're talking about and we all witnessed 2008, but since most of the venues are already there, they have less of a risk of running up the cost than they did  before when nothing was built.

[Tulsa]

5 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

You're correct. Pyeongchang is turning out mostly successful (knock on wood) and Beijing's cost is very low, so hopefully more cities will be interested after these two Olympics are over. 

Are you serious or is it a sarcastic remark ? 

Pyeongchang WoG are too expensive (14 even they are less expensive than Sotchi. No European cities want to bid because Sotchi, Pyeongchang and Beijing showed the wrong way for WoG. 

WoG in PC are already crazy and stupid but in Beijing is the worst idea I never seen, China is a dictatorship and Beijing isn't a winter city, where are mountains and snow ? 

 

I hope no cities will bid in Europe and North America, like this it will the end for WoG. Maybe another group than CIO could create something more like in the past : smaller, more popular and less expensive. 

[Tulsa]

I mean 14 Billions 

And About Beijing, they have to build Alpine and  Nordic venues, also Bobsleigh track and railway link between Beijing and ski venues... They will cost a lot like PC or Sotchi, like every time since too many years. 

(Sorry for my 2 posts)

[anthonyliberatori]

Just now, Tulsa said:

I mean 14 Billions 

And About Beijing, they have to build Alpine and  Nordic venues, also Bobsleigh track and railway link between Beijing and ski venues... They will cost a lot like PC or Sotchi, like every time since too many years. 

(Sorry for my 2 posts)

They needed the train well before the Olympics, that train would've likely been built, regardless of the Olympics. And having to build alpine venues is much cheaper than having to build a 10,000+ person arena for ice hockey in a country where hockey isn't popular. Many of the venues in the 2008 Olympic park will hold the ice sports, and the alpine areas will be built. But choosing Beijing lowered the risk of the host spending insane amounts of money on new arenas, as they're already built and just need reconfiguration. I know Annecy was cheaper, but with what the IOC had, Beijing was the best option. There is not much we can do about it now other than hope that the IOC finally steps its foot down to ensure Beijing doesn't go overboard, and the 2026 host is in North America or Western Europe. I would agree though that tickets have been on the rise and that the IOC has been claiming more and more money each time over the host, so I would agree that that will play into it and I would love to see that reversed. 

 

But, I took you seriously up until you wish failure on Beijing. Are you still that hurt that Annecy lost? Annecy didn't only get beat by Pyeongchang, but it was also beat by Munich. Annecy was never winning. Get that through your thick skull. There is much more to the Winter Olympics than skiing. All Annecy has was nearby world-class slopes, Munich's was far away and Pyeongchang's wasn't developed. Every time you slash China, remember that with the the world's largest population, and a large tourist boom coming from nearby Asian countries, Pyeongchang was not a bad decision by the IOC, and Beijing was the best of the two choices it had. Not good, but not as bad as Almaty would've been. Again, nothing we can do now. 

[anthonyliberatori]

1 minute ago, anthonyliberatori said:

I know Annecy was cheaper, but with what the IOC had, Beijing was the best option.

Before anyone flames me, I was referencing Annecy due to who I was talking to. I understand Annecy bid for 2018 not 2022, but this sentence did not come out worded the way I would've liked.

[intoronto]

Stopped by Calgary booth at Canada House and looks like theybwill go for it.

[anthonyliberatori]

1 hour ago, intoronto said:

Stopped by Calgary booth at Canada House and looks like theybwill go for it.

Best news of the day. How are you enjoying Pyeongchang?

[intoronto]

1 hour ago, anthonyliberatori said:

Best news of the day. How are you enjoying Pyeongchang?

Amazing experience. If I get a chance I met write something about my experience here.

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, intoronto said:

Amazing experience. If I get a chance I met write something about my experience here.

Is this your first games? Glad you’re having a great time. I’d sure like to read of your experience there!

[intoronto]

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

Is this your first games? Glad you’re having a great time. I’d sure like to read of your experience there!

Yup first games!

[Tulsa]

12 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

But, I took you seriously up until you wish failure on Beijing. Are you still that hurt that Annecy lost? Annecy didn't only get beat by Pyeongchang, but it was also beat by Munich. Annecy was never winning. Get that through your thick skull. There is much more to the Winter Olympics than skiing. All Annecy has was nearby world-class slopes, Munich's was far away and Pyeongchang's wasn't developed. Every time you slash China, remember that with the the world's largest population, and a large tourist boom coming from nearby Asian countries, Pyeongchang was not a bad decision by the IOC, and Beijing was the best of the two choices it had. Not good, but not as bad as Almaty would've been. Again, nothing we can do now. 

Really I don't care about Annecy now. They lost, it's finish since a long time and the city will never bid again.

Annecy lost because they didn't offer bribes to IOC like PC or Sotchi (China didn't need against Almaty). They offered the best bid with the best venues, it's a fact, but it isn't the most important for IOC. Annecy was the last medium-size city to bid to WoG, now no cities like Annecy want bid, maybe IOC should think about this issue. 

Every time than Annecy or other french place host an international winter sport event it's success more than Sotchi, PC or Beijing can hope in their best dream. In Europe, we can do without WoG and I think is better like this. But please don't talk about Annecy, I didn't mention the city in this topic.
 

[anthonyliberatori]

15 hours ago, Tulsa said:

Annecy lost because they didn't offer bribes to IOC like PC or Sotchi (China didn't need against Almaty). They offered the best bid with the best venues, it's a fact, but it isn't the most important for IOC. Annecy was the last medium-size city to bid to WoG, now no cities like Annecy want bid, maybe IOC should think about this issue. 

Sion has a little over half the population Annecy does. It's a little more spread out bid than Annecy, but until Sion officially drops out, they are still in this race. You are correct that a European host would likely host a much better WOG, but in order for that to happen, one needs to make it to the final voting round. I would HOPE the IOC would be smart a not let a European city like Stockholm or Sion slip away, and maybe they could opt for a dual allocation so neither slips away. But with cities like Calgary and Salt Lake stepping up, we have an opportunity to revive the Winter Olympics. Again I say, as long as Beijing is regulated and hopefully both 2026 and 2030, but at least just 2026, is awarded to a North American or European host, we will be in the clear.

 

In reality, we have seen this before. After the Munich 1972 attacks, Denver dropping 1976, Montreal 1976 and Lake Placid 1980's financial disasters, and the politics that ruined Moscow 1980, the Olympic movement was looking slim. Sarajevo brought a profit, but those Games would later be remembered through scenes of the rings and venues as a backdrop for civil war photos. LA  didn't even win 1984 through vote, it was automatically awarded to them after Tehran dropped out. After LA, Calgary, Seoul, and Barcelona all staged successful, profitable Olympics, the Olympic movement was back in the clear up until the past few years after Sochi and Rio. So, the IOC just has to play their cards right, and the dual allocation of 24 and 28 shows they understand that. We will see a WOG back in Europe asap.

[Tulsa]

8 hours ago, anthonyliberatori said:

Sion has a little over half the population Annecy does. It's a little more spread out bid than Annecy, but until Sion officially drops out, they are still in this race. You are correct that a European host would likely host a much better WOG, but in order for that to happen, one needs to make it to the final voting round. I would HOPE the IOC would be smart a not let a European city like Stockholm or Sion slip away, and maybe they could opt for a dual allocation so neither slips away. But with cities like Calgary and Salt Lake stepping up, we have an opportunity to revive the Winter Olympics. Again I say, as long as Beijing is regulated and hopefully both 2026 and 2030, but at least just 2026, is awarded to a North American or European host, we will be in the clear.

Indeed Sion could be a great bid, more than Stockholm for me because every venues will be close each others. Sweden is also a great country to host WoG but I more perplexed about this kind of bid, Sweden doesn't have another potential bid ? closer to Are ? 

[yoshi]

Only city anywhere near Åre of sufficient size is Trondheim really. Unfortunately, it's in Norway - although a binational hosting like that would also send a message of IOC flexibility. 

[stryker]

In terms of future WOGs hosts, it looks very grim for any future European bids. Given the toxicity surrounding the IOC, unless a city like Calgary (if they even go through with a bid) can pull off an Olympics using almost entirely existing facilities and keeping the budget within original estimates, I really don't think a traditional host country like Switzerland, Norway, Austria, or Sweden is going to be able to drum up enough public support to go through with it. Even if they did, I think the future in terms of a WOG host in Europe is going to have to revolve around what Switzerland is proposing right now where essentially the venues are spread throughout the country. If the IOC really wants a traditional European winter sports host to come through they will have to accept regional concepts such as Stockholm using Are and perhaps even Lillehammer if they don't want the albatross that is a sliding track, a country wide bid from let's say Austria with Vienna as the main host city or I'll even take it further and suggest a country that has little or mountains hosting ice events, snowboarding and farming out the alpine events to another country that can hold them. Suddenly London hosting with Norway isn't so far fetched. 

The outlook is grim. Pyeongchang is putting on an excellent Olympics, but when it's all over South Korea is going to be saddled with white elephants in terms of venues (they still have no plan for the ceremonies stadium, they have two ice hockey arenas with no clear tenants, and at aone point they were actually discussing demolishing the speed skating oval because they had no clear use for it). Combine that with Biejing whose spending could very well be unpredictable and countries aren't going to be lining up to host. I 'm even skeptical Calgary will go through with it especially in light of Nenshi's recent comments that Calgary could host but is it worthwhile? I suppose that could be interpreted different ways. Perhaps he's dropping hints to the IOC if you want us in you'll need to pony up more cash or he's seeing the excesses of Pyeongchang and wondering if it really is the right move. I go back to the fact that Calgary cannot get a new arena for the Flames or the fieldhouse built. How are they going to convince their citizens that they can fund an Olympics?

[intoronto]

Only two bids had delegations at the MPC today: Calgary and Sion.

[Tulsa]

France should bid, they don't care about public opinion and without other bid, it will be easy to win, like Paris 2024. 

[Gangwon]

On 2/20/2018 at 3:10 PM, stryker said:

In terms of future WOGs hosts, it looks very grim for any future European bids. Given the toxicity surrounding the IOC, unless a city like Calgary (if they even go through with a bid) can pull off an Olympics using almost entirely existing facilities and keeping the budget within original estimates, I really don't think a traditional host country like Switzerland, Norway, Austria, or Sweden is going to be able to drum up enough public support to go through with it. Even if they did, I think the future in terms of a WOG host in Europe is going to have to revolve around what Switzerland is proposing right now where essentially the venues are spread throughout the country. If the IOC really wants a traditional European winter sports host to come through they will have to accept regional concepts such as Stockholm using Are and perhaps even Lillehammer if they don't want the albatross that is a sliding track, a country wide bid from let's say Austria with Vienna as the main host city or I'll even take it further and suggest a country that has little or mountains hosting ice events, snowboarding and farming out the alpine events to another country that can hold them. Suddenly London hosting with Norway isn't so far fetched. 

The outlook is grim. Pyeongchang is putting on an excellent Olympics, but when it's all over South Korea is going to be saddled with white elephants in terms of venues (they still have no plan for the ceremonies stadium, they have two ice hockey arenas with no clear tenants, and at aone point they were actually discussing demolishing the speed skating oval because they had no clear use for it). Combine that with Biejing whose spending could very well be unpredictable and countries aren't going to be lining up to host. I 'm even skeptical Calgary will go through with it especially in light of Nenshi's recent comments that Calgary could host but is it worthwhile? I suppose that could be interpreted different ways. Perhaps he's dropping hints to the IOC if you want us in you'll need to pony up more cash or he's seeing the excesses of Pyeongchang and wondering if it really is the right move. I go back to the fact that Calgary cannot get a new arena for the Flames or the fieldhouse built. How are they going to convince their citizens that they can fund an Olympics?

Meh.  Their loss.  I was hoping for Munich 2022, and I'd still love to see a Winter Games in Germany or Sweden or Switzerland next... but hey, if they don't want to bid, I'm more than happy to have the Games go to Calgary next.  Or USA or back to Japan.  And eventually South America.  I just don't see things as grim as you portray.

[Nacre]

There simply are not too many locations that have all of the required physical features for the winter games. That results in either an extremely restricted pool of host cities or a massive building spree in new hosting regions like Pyeongchang or Sochi.

My home state of Washington is technically capable of hosting the winter games. We have a ski resort with the required vertical drop, the snowiest ski resort in the world that's also home to the oldest existing snowboarding tournament in the world, a biathlon center, and a currently run-down ski hill that hosted many national championships from the 50's to 70's. Unfortunately they are all in different locations and are far from our big city. Stockholm, Krakow/Slovakia, Milan, Denver, upstate New York, etc all have that problem.

I think they need to formally break up the snow and ice sports. Let Stockholm host the ice events and Switzerland host the snow events and the Winter Olympics instantly become more manageable for the host cities.