Potential 2026 and 2028 bids

[gromit]

Albuquerque, New Mexico.

If Seattle can enter the conversation, why not Albuquerque?

The Taos Ski Valley with sufficient vertical is 150miles north, and the city has several suitable venues. It would offer a contrast to the Cascades as a North American options

[Sir Rols]

48 minutes ago, gromit said:

In the last two years there has been two major projects to alleviate two of the biggest issues on the A82 ... the Crianlarich Bypass (now completed) designed to overcome problems encountered during the summer and Pulpit Rock which was a traffic light bottleneck and where the road has now been widened.

The entire Tarbet to Inverarnan route is now the focus of a 4 possible options consultation to improve this section and reduce traffic problems

I think we say that as a major commercial truck road and not one that goes to know where, infrastruture investment continues without any impetus of a Winter Olympics

 

That's good to hear, from personal experience, improvement is very much needed. On my very enjoyable and pleasant trip along it, I was very surprised that what appeared to be the major route between the south and north of Scotland and both a major tourist and economic artery was just so small a roadway, not just at a few bottlenecks, but along most of its stretch. I was surprised that sheer economic necessity hadn't already seen it improved and widened.

The thing is, the reason not many of us take the notion too seriously is Scotland hasn't yet, admittedly just to my knowledge, hosted much of anything to raise its profile as a possible future WOG host. I'm guessing it's hosted a World Curling Championship or two, but I can't think of anything else it has done - I'd be glad if you enlightened me. You mention South Korea - yeah, a lot of people who didn't like its bid did complain about a lack of winter sports tradition. Yet it had hosted WCs in things like cross country (or was it biathlon), the Asian Winter Games, has a big tradition in some of the ice sports like short track and a superstar in figure skating in Kim Yuna. What Scotland needs to do is start going after some high profile hostings in major winter sports events, try to get some FIS approved ski events held there, some major high profile ice events and get better known as a winter sports hosts. Then it won't strike so many of us as bizarre. At the moment its hosted some major multi-sport international events in summer sports - the CWGs for a start in both its major cities, so of course we've got more of a feel for its potential there. I like the idea - I'm not hostile to it - I just need more convincing that it's truly feasible. And then there's the next step as to whether it's actually ever likely to happen or go beyond mere pondering about it.

Also, as mentioned, this thread really - to my and other's understanding - is more to discuss emerging real possibilities and suggestions of cities truly expected to bid for 2026 and 28. Hence why some of the "blue sky" or creative suggestions are getting dumped on. There's a difference between discussing what locations could potentially host a games at some stage in the future, and what locations are likely potential bidders for very specific years in the near term. There have been threads before in the past discussing a Scottish or British WOGss. Here and here, for example. I'm sure there's others. Maybe the suggestion would have been more appropriate there, or in a new thread in itself.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Sir Rols

[LatinXTC]

The sad thing about Korean figure skating is Kim Yu-Na already anmounced she won't competing in the 2018 Olympics. Her absence there may not garner the same amount of attention from Koreans if she were competing. I am hopeful she comes around and decides to compete. We know she's technically at a disadvantage with what the Russians are doing now and winning gold is farfetched, but she still could medal and it should be for the experience of skating in your home country.

[Quaker2001]

8 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Also, as mentioned, this thread really - to my and other's understanding - is more to discuss emerging real possibilities and suggestions of cities truly expected to bid for 2026 and 28. Hence why some of the "blue sky" or creative suggestions are getting dumped on. There's a difference between discussing what locations could potentially host a games at some stage in the future, and what locations are likely potential bidders for very specific years in the near term. There have been threads before in the past discussing a Scottish or British WOGss. Here and here, for example. I'm sure there's others. Maybe the suggestion would have been more appropriate there, or in a new thread in itself.

Yes.. this.  Remains my number 1 pet peeve of this website that the line between fantasy and reality tends to get blurred.  I know it stretches credibility a little bit to mention Denver in this thread since it seems exceedingly unlikely that the USOC would put forth a bid for 2026.  Seattle has absolutely no place whatsoever in a conversation of this thread, so "why not Albuquerque" is even more ridiculous and speaks to what is wrong about this website.

Discussions of cities like that or a Scottish bid should have a place for themselves on a site like this.  But it shouldn't be this thread simply because it's the most recent one on the list.  To me, if this site and these forums are going to be taken seriously, then there should be a division between actual news and discussion of actual bids and "hey, why not *random city I suddenly thought of that I feel like talking about* because it's fun to think about."  If people want to discuss their favorite city, there can and should be a place for that. This isn't it though

[intoronto]

5 hours ago, LatinXTC said:

The sad thing about Korean figure skating is Kim Yu-Na already anmounced she won't competing in the 2018 Olympics. Her absence there may not garner the same amount of attention from Koreans if she were competing. I am hopeful she comes around and decides to compete. We know she's technically at a disadvantage with what the Russians are doing now and winning gold is farfetched, but she still could medal and it should be for the experience of skating in your home country.

Looks like the Russian was cheating in 2014! If Yu-Na returns she has a chance to one day win 3 straight golds, cementing her legacy!

 

[gromit]

The way the Winter Olympics are going, thinking 'outside of the box' may have to be the norm ... these are some of the options

1) Reduce the size of the games, number of events but correspondingly the amount of sponsorship and financial income

2) Accept increasingly spread out bids where spectators have to travel ridiculous distances to see a variety of events

3) Admit there is a limit number of repeat venues with the required facilities and just repeatedly host at these locations

or

4) Consider those sites that would not normally be considered traditional locations but have the i) political will to do this, ii) have some of the facilities, the desire to build them and some real practical usage afterwards and iii) distances between event sites which more traditionally conform with the IOC requirements.

after all, in 2014 who thought Beijing was really considering to host the Winter Olympics? 

[zekekelso]

What I find so interesting is that we may have a situation where there are no reasonable bids for upcoming WOG's. Or we could just as easily see the next two games go to legit bids from Calgary (or SLC) and Switzerland (or Austria). Then a trip back to Asia (Sapporo? Almaty?) then back to North America and Europe. Five or six excellent hosts.

Is there a problem, or isn't there. 

[Nacre]

On 1/1/2017 at 2:03 AM, gromit said:

Albuquerque, New Mexico.

If Seattle can enter the conversation, why not Albuquerque?

Seattle ISN'T in the conversation. I only mentioned Seattle because it has the money, the ski areas and is wintry enough to be a Vancouver-style host. (It snowed here two days ago, and most Canadians live south of Seattle.) And yet despite all of that there is no interest. Denver and Boston are in the same boat.

Albuquerque is a total non-starter. Although I did like the city when I was there this summer, and Mesa Verde was even better than I thought it would be. But Albuquerque is a desert city far from the mountains and it has no major arenas.

I still think the IOC should go back to the ancient cycle of ones games per year. Separate the ice and snow events. Let cities like Minneapolis or Moscow host the ice events, and then leave the skiing to real wintry, mountain towns.

[TeamBlakeUSA]

What About Dallas, Texas? They Were Potentially Bidding For The 2024 Olympic And Paralympic Games.

[FYI]

^What about Dallas. That they were interested in bidding for 2024 doesn't necessarily mean that the USOC is interested in them. Remember, Dallas was bypassed in favor of Boston first. And then Los Angeles for a second time.

[gromit]

On 1/2/2017 at 7:33 PM, Nacre said:

Seattle ISN'T in the conversation. I only mentioned Seattle because it has the money, the ski areas and is wintry enough to be a Vancouver-style host. (It snowed here two days ago, and most Canadians live south of Seattle.) And yet despite all of that there is no interest. Denver and Boston are in the same boat.

Albuquerque is a total non-starter. Although I did like the city when I was there this summer, and Mesa Verde was even better than I thought it would be. But Albuquerque is a desert city far from the mountains and it has no major arenas.

I still think the IOC should go back to the ancient cycle of ones games per year. Separate the ice and snow events. Let cities like Minneapolis or Moscow host the ice events, and then leave the skiing to real wintry, mountain towns.

Albuquerque

Branch Field - 39,224 seats (Ceremonies)

The Pit - 15,411 seats for baseball - Figure Skating @ 12,000 seats 

Tingley Coliseum - 9,286 permanent seats - Ice Hockey1 @10,000 seats

Albuquerque Convention Centre - 9,048 seats in Fran Hill Exhibit Hall 

Johnson Gymnasium - 4,000 seats - Curling

Santa Ana Star Center - 6,000 seats - Ice Hockey2 

so in fact several stadiums close to the requirements the IOC need for the Winter Olympic Games. A speed skating arena is missing but this is an issue for all US bids bar SLC

 

[baron-pierreIV]

On 1/1/2017 at 11:35 PM, gromit said:

1) Reduce the size of the games,

 

Uhmmm, tell that to the IOC and the 2 dozen other federations. breaking down the door to get included!!

BTW, I know Scotland has the mountains, but it doesn't have its own Olympic NOC.  Why doesn't it first hold the world's largest Winter Highland Scottish Games, and then we'll see if that can translate into the regular Olympic Winter Games? 

[Quaker2001]

5 hours ago, gromit said:

Albuquerque

The Pit - 15,411 seats for baseball - Figure Skating @ 12,000 seats

Obviously you meant basketball, not baseball.  Worth noting that the arena in Salt Lake (which has undergone so many name changes, I'm not sure what it is now) holds over 19,000 for basketball.  For hockey, that number is 14,000.  No shot whatsoever you'll get 12,000 seats at The Pit with an international-sized ice rink.

[zekekelso]

1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

(which has undergone so many name changes, I'm not sure what it is now) 

Sadly, it is no longer named for a nuclear waste disposal company.  

[JMarkSnow2012]

11 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

BTW, I know Scotland has the mountains, but it doesn't have its own Olympic NOC.  Why doesn't it first hold the world's largest Winter Highland Scottish Games, and then we'll see if that can translate into the regular Olympic Winter Games? 

Sadly, Scotland has British weather, which means it only snows when least convenient. If you hold a Winter Olympic Games in the Scottish Highlands, the Scottish Lowlands will get all the snow that month.

[gromit]

On 1/4/2017 at 8:29 AM, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Sadly, Scotland has British weather, which means it only snows when least convenient. If you hold a Winter Olympic Games in the Scottish Highlands, the Scottish Lowlands will get all the snow that month.

You could argue to same about the Alps this season

[gromit]

On 1/4/2017 at 1:13 AM, Quaker2001 said:

Obviously you meant basketball, not baseball.  Worth noting that the arena in Salt Lake (which has undergone so many name changes, I'm not sure what it is now) holds over 19,000 for basketball.  For hockey, that number is 14,000.  No shot whatsoever you'll get 12,000 seats at The Pit with an international-sized ice rink.

You are assuming that any alteration for hockey would involve the same percentage reduction in seats?

The Delta Center as hosted the Figure Skating with a reduced capacity of 17,500 seats from 19,911 seats had a drop of 12%. For Ice Hockey you lose 30% down to 14,000 seats.

However the Barclay Center in Brooklyn only loses 11% of their seats when hosting the Jets instead of the Islanders.

If you were to say it is somewhere in the middle for The Pit ... say a 20% loss of seats you'd get a capacity of 12,323 or 30% you'd still get a capacity of 10788 seats

IOC skating capacity requirements

Figure Skating 12,000 seats

Ice Hockey No1 - 10,000 seats

So with a 30% seat loss at the Pit you have 10,788 seats so whey for Ice Hockey1 or 20% loss you'd get 12,323 seats so whey for both Figure Skating/Ice Hockey1

 

[Quaker2001]

6 hours ago, gromit said:

You are assuming that any alteration for hockey would involve the same percentage reduction in seats?

The Delta Center as hosted the Figure Skating with a reduced capacity of 17,500 seats from 19,911 seats had a drop of 12%. For Ice Hockey you lose 30% down to 14,000 seats.

However the Barclay Center in Brooklyn only loses 11% of their seats when hosting the Jets instead of the Islanders.

If you were to say it is somewhere in the middle for The Pit ... say a 20% loss of seats you'd get a capacity of 12,323 or 30% you'd still get a capacity of 10788 seats

IOC skating capacity requirements

Figure Skating 12,000 seats

Ice Hockey No1 - 10,000 seats

So with a 30% seat loss at the Pit you have 10,788 seats so whey for Ice Hockey1 or 20% loss you'd get 12,323 seats so whey for both Figure Skating/Ice Hockey1

From the OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE XIX OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES

Figure Skating -  100 percent of tickets sold, 145,997 total spectators, largest crowd on 17 February (14,767 spectators), an average of 14,600 spectators for each session

Short Track -  100 percent of tickets sold, 59,878 total spectators, largest crowd on 23 February (15,012 spectators), an average of 14,970 spectators for each session

Where are you getting 17,500 from?  That number isn't accurate.  The number of seats lost isn't based on a percentage of capacity.  The number of seats you lose is due to the size of the playing surfaces.  That doesn't change based on the overall size of the arena.

Your numbers with Barclays are accurate although I can tell you from personal experience that there are a lot of obstructed view seats because it wasn't designed for hockey.  But here's the thing to remember.. capacity for almost anything at the Olympics is going to be lower than it would be for a regular event.  You need to accommodate a lot more press and event sponsors than you would otherwise.  

Plus, if you're talking about The Pit, that's not fully 2-tiered seating, so that would make for some less than ideal sightlines with all those seats you're taking out.  Maybe they'd hit the mark for hockey.  No shot they'd have enough for figure skating.

[intoronto]

More games family, then there are seat kills for athletes etc. 

[gromit]

On 1/14/2017 at 10:32 PM, Quaker2001 said:

From the OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE XIX OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES

Figure Skating -  100 percent of tickets sold, 145,997 total spectators, largest crowd on 17 February (14,767 spectators), an average of 14,600 spectators for each session

Short Track -  100 percent of tickets sold, 59,878 total spectators, largest crowd on 23 February (15,012 spectators), an average of 14,970 spectators for each session

 

Your numbers with Barclays are accurate although I can tell you from personal experience that there are a lot of obstructed view seats because it wasn't designed for hockey.  But here's the thing to remember.. capacity for almost anything at the Olympics is going to be lower than it would be for a regular event.  You need to accommodate a lot more press and event sponsors than you would otherwise.  

Plus, if you're talking about The Pit, that's not fully 2-tiered seating, so that would make for some less than ideal sightlines with all those seats you're taking out.  Maybe they'd hit the mark for hockey.  No shot they'd have enough for figure skating.

"Where are you getting 17,500 from?  That number isn't accurate.  The number of seats lost isn't based on a percentage of capacity.  The number of seats you lose is due to the size of the playing surfaces.  That doesn't change based on the overall size of the arena."

If you look at Page 94 of the document link you have attached you'll find the following statement

Gross Capacity: 17,500

So you are quoting me accurate figures from a document you claim is not accurate ...?? Interesting

 

[Quaker2001]

19 minutes ago, gromit said:

"Where are you getting 17,500 from?  That number isn't accurate.  The number of seats lost isn't based on a percentage of capacity.  The number of seats you lose is due to the size of the playing surfaces.  That doesn't change based on the overall size of the arena."

If you look at Page 94 of the document link you have attached you'll find the following statement

Gross Capacity: 17,500

So you are quoting me accurate figures from a document you claim is not accurate ...?? Interesting

Says the guy who is telling us an Olympics in Albuquerque might be feasible.  And yes, gross capacity is not the same as the number of seats.  Gross capacity would include media members and other support staff needed for an Olympics.  Which is why an arena with a gross capacity of 17,500 only had room for 15,000 spectators.  Much like Tingley Coliseum has 9,286 seats.  How much of that would they lose for an Olympics?

I admire your willingness to research these things, but again, let's draw the line between fantasy and reality.  You need to stop blurring that line when you're throwing facts and figures like this.

[Tulsa]

For 2026 Alpine Countries and Nordic Countries won't bid... IOC don't want medium or small size cities, they ask too much about venues and population in these countries are not favorable to WoG. I think we won't have an European bid (again). 

It's to soon for Canada but if USA don't bid, Canada remains the last acceptable option for IOC, maybe with Calgary. 

If USA lose 2024 race, it will be USA vs Canada (Salt Lake City/ Calgary). 

 

But the main problem is : WoG will it disappear or lost their legitimacy in the next decade ?

[Quaker2001]

25 minutes ago, Tulsa said:

For 2026 Alpine Countries and Nordic Countries won't bid... IOC don't want medium or small size cities, they ask too much about venues and population in these countries are not favorable to WoG. I think we won't have an European bid (again). 

It's to soon for Canada but if USA don't bid, Canada remains the last acceptable option for IOC, maybe with Calgary. 

If USA lose 2024 race, it will be USA vs Canada (Salt Lake City/ Calgary). 

 

But the main problem is : WoG will it disappear or lost their legitimacy in the next decade ?

Don't count on it.  According to some reports from a USOC board meeting in December, there has been no consideration given to a 2026 bid.  Right now, they're solely focused on LA 2024.  And even if that bid loses, they won't know that until September, at which point it is likely too late to conduct a search for a Winter candidate (Salt Lake would undoubtedly be interested, but considering the time and effort the USOC spent on a search for a 2024 bidder, it's highly unlikely they'd nominate a 2026 bidder so quickly).  More than that, if the USOC is interested in returning with a summer bid for 2028, IMHO they're unlikely to bid for 2026 which would undercut that effort.

[anthonyliberatori]

I would back Calgary in a 2026 Winter bid. I know the IOC and athletes wants to return to the small, remote village style of previous Games, but with the amount of growth that the Winter Olympics has received over the years in publicity, I just don't see it happening, unless the 50,000+ stadium is temporary. Sion probably has a good chance, so does Stockholm, but I would personally back Calgary. The success of Vancouver 2010 was certainly noted by the IOC.

 

If Summer 2028 is not awarded to the loser of the LA/Paris 2024 battle, then I am not sure who I would root for. If LA were to be offered 2028 and not take it, and another US bid were to arise, I am not sure how I would feel. I feel if the US tries again for a summer games (all predicated upon LA not getting 2024), it should be an Atlanta kind of movement, where the plan is based on the renewal of professional and collegiate facilities for the new venues, in a city that is trying to be put on the world map. Cities like San Francisco, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Boston, Miami, Chicago, Dallas and Houston could have the potential. I would back any of these, as long as they had good economic and post-Games plans and could continue the positive legacy that Paris (Not LA because there would be a 2028 bid if LA has 2024) would definitely leave.

 

With that, if it is not a battle over a US bid, I would certainly want to back Buenos Aires (depending on how they do with the Youth Games next year and their PanAm bid for 2023), Milan, Berlin, or Toronto. If Paris has 2024, I do not see Milan or Berlin getting a chance. But if LA has 2024, then I don't see Toronto or any other US option with a chance.

 

Now, this is all predicated on the idea that Bach and the IOC won't make one of the three host city candidates of 2024 the host city of 2028 in September during voting. If that happens, then we just have 2026 to discuss the predictions of, but we'll know more in September.

[budse]

if in the end there are no strong WOG 2026 bid from Europe and North America, perhaps Asia will host three consecutively the Winter Olympic Games.

Quote

Sapporo, Japan, February 21, 2017: The President of the Olympic Council of Asia, HE Sheikh Ahmad Al Fahad Al Sabah, believes that Asia is ready to stage a third consecutive Winter Olympics, should Sapporo decide to commit to an official bid for the 2026 edition. 

Speaking at a press conference on Tuesday, Sheikh Ahmad said Sapporo had “all the tools, all the facilities and all the experience” to organise the Winter Olympics for a second time, following the city’s hosting of the 1972 Winter Games. “I am happy to hear that Sapporo is ready to host the Olympic Winter Games. Sapporo is capable and ready,” Sheikh said.

The next two Winter Olympics will be held in Asia – at PyeongChang, Korea, next February and Beijing, China, in 2022, and Sheikh Ahmad said one of the key factors for Sapporo would be how many cities showed a firm interest to host the 2026 Winter Games. “I am happy and proud because, after Beijing, Asia will be ready to host the Olympic Winter Games again. 

“If there is a lot who bid, we will have to evaluate the situation, but if not then we have a good chance. We are ready to host a third Olympic Winter Games.” Sheikh Ahmad said Sapporo held “special memories” for the OCA, having played a pioneering role in establishing the Asian Winter Games in 1986 and now hosting the event for the third time in eight editions.

That first AWG attracted only seven teams, but that figure has grown to 32 for Sapporo 2017, including guest teams from Australia and New Zealand. “A lot of the Olympic champions have started in the Asian Winter Games, and we wish our athletes from Sapporo 2017 can win a medal at PyeongChang 2018,” he said.

“We have seen our athletes win medals at the Winter Youth Olympic Games in Lillehammer in 2016 and now we find their names in our Asian Winter Games. This is what we are trying to do – to prepare a good environment to show their talent.”

The growth of the Asian Winter Games has brought ice hockey teams from the tropical South East Asia zone playing each other, for example Malaysia v Indonesia, from the desert – Qatar v the Independent Olympic Athletes representing the suspended Kuwait Olympic Committee – and a women’s team from Qatar in the curling.
 
“Before, this was like a dream,” he said. “The culture of the Games has changed in Asia.” Sheikh Ahmad reserved special praise for the people of Sapporo, commenting jokingly that “the citizens are supporting the Games more than the officials”.

After being informed that 30,000 people had attended the opening ceremony on February 19 and that a total of 40,000 people had attended the first three days of competition across the venues in Sapporo and Obihiro, Sheikh Ahmad picked out one special moment that had impressed him.

“Before the third part of the opening ceremony, the announcer asked the spectators not to take photos or record the singers on video. When this part started I was looking around, not at the beautiful performance but at the spectators – and I did not see one flash from 30,000 people! We have to respect this society – this is the fortune of Sapporo and this is why it is special.” 

Sheikh Ahmad also spoke of next year’s Asian Games in Indonesia, and described OCA sports events as a testing ground for the world, with the five new Olympic sports for Tokyo 2020 all joining the Asian Games programme. 

The Asian Youth Games in Singapore in 2009 and Nanjing in 2013 had also been dress rehearsals for the IOC’s YOG the following year in both cities, while the OCA’s Asian Beach Games concept beginning in 2008 had led to beach sports festivals in Latin America, Africa, the Mediterranean and even the first World Beach Games set for San Diego 2019 and run by the Association of National Olympic Committees.

The OCA’s five multi-sport events – Asian Games, Asian Winter Games, Asian Beach Games, Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games and Asian Youth Games – provided a menu for National Olympics Committees of all sizes to consider hosting an event, while offering different advantages such as tourism and development, he added.

“These five Games include between 85-89 different sports for the athletes to represent their flag,” Sheikh Ahmad concluded. The host of the next Asian Winter Games has not been finalised, but he said one Chinese city had shown strong interest. Sheikh Ahmad hopes to conclude the deal in time for the General Assembly at Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, this September. "We are in a stable situation, a secure zone," he said.

source: http://www.ocasia.org