GBModerator Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 It’s a close race, GamesBids.com has revealed in its latest edition of BidIndex – the first evaluation for the 2022 Olympic Bid. Beijing at 57.01 holds the slimmest of leads, 0.57 points ahead of rival Almaty with 56.44. When Almaty last bid for the 2014 Olympic Winter Games it failed to make a shortlist with […] View the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I really hate how they point out that Almaty has no "deep hosting experience" when the last WOG host city who had any previous experience behind them to host an Olympic-sized event was Lake Placid in 1980. None of the host cities for the WOGs since then had previously hosted an event of Olympic-sized caliber yet for the most part all the WOGs happened without any major issues. Yes Sochi did have an inflated price tag and didn't have some of its hotels finished in time, but the sporting events continued on with absolutely no issues. If anything, Beijing previously hosting the Olympics should be more of a major drawback for them because none of the promises they put forth continued on. Pollution got worse, human rights did not change, and they haven't repurposed the majority of the events, including the Olympic Stadium. If they win the right to host the 2022 Olympics, then all you'll get out of it once the Olympics are gone is leaving the Beijing venues and city in the condition they were after 2008, and on top of that you'll be leaving outdoor winter facilities sitting there rotting away because no one will use them. Oh and I guess the 2011 Asian Winter Games means absolutely nothing to the IOC. Sure the event was split between Almaty and Astana, but Almaty has the experience of hosting outdoor events of Olympic caliber, which Yanqing and Zhanjiakou do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I find it amazing how some people still are perpetuating Beijing's problems as if the IOC really has options here. As been pointed out before by some others, Beijing's bid obviously has issues, & if Europe was still at play here, then both Beijing & Almafy would be done for. Yeah, Beijing's 2022 bid as some serious drawbacks, but when the only other option is still pretty much an unknown quantity, then there's not much else to look at here. It's also rather not quite a partial analysis when talking about Winter Olympics post Lake Placid as far as them not having any previous experience either (not to mention those Winter Games were unattested anyway). Those locales were still in COUNTRIES, though, that did indeed have the experience. So that can't be so simply tossed aside so trivially. If Almaty's bid was somewhere else besides Kazahkstan, then this would be a no-brainer. But it's not, & that what their major drawback is. And as far as Sochi is concerned, it was in *Russia* with Putin at the helm willing to bankroll everything. So of course the IOC was just all in a "tizzy" over that one. And even there, all of that new infrastructure construction surely is not getting all used to its full potential either. Doubtful any international tourists are just flocking there to book at all those new hotels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorchbearerSydney Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Confirms the closer race than many predicted........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Yeah.. kind of sure that Beijing will win because i'm sure it will be bad for the TOP Sponsors if Almaty wins... They really have no business in Kazakhstan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Confirms the closer race than many predicted........ Last year Bid Index put Madrid before Istanbul and predicted LA would be the US 2024 City...Bid Index in short doesn't mean crap. Beijing will win.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcelona_'92 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Yeah, Beijing's 2022 bid as some serious drawbacks, but when the only other option is still pretty much an unknown quantity, then there's not much else to look at here. Go back to 1981, and you could make this same statement about the 1988 Summer race. South Korea was not an athletic power and had virtually no history hosting major sports events. Its government was questionable, and the choice of Seoul brought with it the very real possibility of a boycott. Japan was the biggest economic power in Asia, had successfully hosted a Summer and Winter Games in the last 17 years, and Nagoya had the superior technical bid. We all know how that race turned out... Maybe China and its sponsorship dollars are too important to the future of the Olympics for the IOC to pass them up in this case. Maybe most of the IOC members are too familiar with Beijing after having been there in 2008. Maybe the Chinese government's willingness to use whatever resources necessary to make the Games successful will sway members who think Almaty just doesn't have the resources to get it done (because we all know the Chinese government will spend $40+ billion on the Games if they have to whether they claim frugality or not). But the IOC has gone with the unknown entity before, in a very similar race between two Asian cities, and enough IOC members just don't care enough about the Winter Games in general to make this a more competitive race than it seems on face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBModerator Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Last year Bid Index put Madrid before Istanbul and predicted LA would be the US 2024 City...Bid Index in short doesn't mean crap. Beijing will win.. Not correct. For 2020 Istanbul was scored higher than Madrid. BidIndex has yet to score the 2024 race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 ^^ yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Almaty will win. I think there are enough people in the IOC who see the fact that going to Beijing would show that the IOC will go wherever the most money will be spent. Since it's so close, it'll be up to the presentations. Hopefully neither side is too arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Last year Bid Index put Madrid before Istanbul and predicted LA would be the US 2024 City...Bid Index in short doesn't mean crap. Beijing will win.. Says the Bid Index doesn't mean crap, and sides with the bid that the Bid Index ranked ahead lol Not correct. For 2020 Istanbul was scored higher than Madrid. BidIndex has yet to score the 2024 race. How is that possible? Madrid had a far better plan than Istanbul. Perhaps it lost major points with its current economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Ok looking at the Bid Index I think it's absolute crap if it doesn't break down the numbers and what they represent. I prefer to see something like the table score from the IOC Working Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Go back to 1981, and you could make this same statement about the 1988 Summer race. South Korea was not an athletic power and had virtually no history hosting major sports events. Its government was questionable, and the choice of Seoul brought with it the very real possibility of a boycott. Japan was the biggest economic power in Asia, had successfully hosted a Summer and Winter Games in the last 17 years, and Nagoya had the superior technical bid. We all know how that race turned out... I think of Seoul 1988 more along the lines of Tokyo 1964 & Beijing 2008, especially the former. Post Tokyo WWII was an ugly, war-torn industrial city. And the 1964 Olympics pretty much catapulted Japan into the country that we know today, & even the one the world already knew back in 1981. So perhaps that was the IOC's thinking (which who are we kidding. Of course it was), to do the same in Seoul, South Korea with the 1988 Summer Olympics. Push it into the 20th century with the global exposure of the Olympic Games. Plus, like you also said, Japan had already hosted both Summer & Winter Olympics, & at the time, Japan was the only Asian country to have hosted the Olympics. So I could see the drive of the IOC perhaps going somewhere new then, thinking they could do the same in South Korea like they did in Japan. In China's case here, it's quite different. Sooner or later, the IOC is going to award China a Winter Olympics. The potential to open up over 1.3 Billion people to winter sports has got to be appealing to them (& yes, also their sponsors). Not to mention, it would push China away from getting another Summer Olympics anytime soon (which in that scenario, we could make a parallel argument of Nagoya 1988 in that sense). But I don't see the Chinese being brushed aside just yet. Not when again, the only other alternative has plenty issues of their own TBW. But the IOC has gone with the unknown entity before, in a very similar race between two Asian cities, and enough IOC members just don't care enough about the Winter Games in general to make this a more competitive race than it seems on face value. I don't think the races are similar at all for the reasons I cited above. And precisely why enough IOC members not caring about the winter games anyway would favor Beijing. If one doesn't care about the main attraction, then one would like to find a distraction to entertain themselves in the meantime. And where would one not caring about the Winter Games be able to do that more successfully In a global capital like Beijing. Or in an obscure, remote one like Almaty. The choice is clear if that's a point you want to highlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think of Seoul 1988 more along the lines of Tokyo 1964 & Beijing 2008, especially the former. Post Tokyo WWII was an ugly, war-torn industrial city. And the 1964 Olympics pretty much catapulted Japan into the country that we know today, & even the one the world already knew back in 1981. So perhaps that was the IOC's thinking (which who are we kidding. Of course it was), to do the same in Seoul, South Korea with the 1988 Summer Olympics. Push it into the 20th century with the global exposure of the Olympic Games. But wouldn't a post-Soviet state also present the opportunity to be launched into the 21st century with Winter Olympic global exposure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Not when you have the opportunity on the table to promote winter sports to over 1.3 Billion people. Not to mention these days the IOC is much more interested in re-'launching' their own image than the one of some small dictatorship in a remote part of Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Confirms the closer race than many predicted........ I don't see how this 'confirms' anything. All it is, is just a POV. I don't believe that it's going to be as 'close' as some are saying. It's more akin to the "Madrid 2020 now has the momentum" mumbo-jumbo hysteria right after the Denver Sports accord back in 2013. Yeah.. kind of sure that Beijing will win because i'm sure it will be bad for the TOP Sponsors if Almaty wins... They really have no business in Kazakhstan... Exactly. Very, very plausible. As they saying goes; money talks, sh!t walks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBModerator Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 I don't see how this 'confirms' anything. All it is, is just a POV. I don't believe that it's going to be as 'close' as some are saying. It's more akin to the "Madrid 2020 now has the momentum" mumbo-jumbo hysteria right after the Denver Sports accord back in 2013. Exactly. Very, very plausible. As they saying goes; money talks, sh!t walks. SportAccord was in Denver 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Not when you have the opportunity on the table to promote winter sports to over 1.3 Billion people. Not to mention these days the IOC is much more interested in re-'launching' their own image than the one of some small dictatorship in a remote part of Asia. But will the games reach the entire population of either China or Kazakhstan? Very unlikely. There are a lot of people in every country that hosts who just don't care enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Not when you have the opportunity on the table to promote winter sports to over 1.3 Billion people. Not to mention these days the IOC is much more interested in re-'launching' their own image than the one of some small dictatorship in a remote part of Asia. But will the games reach the entire population of either China or Kazakhstan? Very unlikely. There are a lot of people in every country that hosts who just don't care enough. Yeah, especially with China. China is a huge country, as big as the US (in size). Pretty sure all the states wouldn't care for the winter games unless it comes to pride and patriotism (which is not the same as sports). My family is from southern China, a place where it is hot and humid, with literally no snowfall in even the mountains. Pretty sure my family would not care to travel all the way across the country to skii or explore the smoggy winter (Beijing itself is a different matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rio2016man Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Beijing 2022 to be special exprience for nhl players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 SportAccord was in Denver 2009. My bad. Then just replace Denver with St. Petersburg, & problem solved. But will the games reach the entire population of either China or Kazakhstan? Very unlikely. There are a lot of people in every country that hosts who just don't care enough. I didn't say reach, I said promote, since winter sports are still rather in their infancy in China. There are always gonna be people who don't care bcuz of either indifference to the sport or are not athletic themselves. But that doesn't mean that people aren't still willing to watch & be made aware of it. Afterall, the Olympics are mainly a spectator event when you really think about it. And relatively speaking, the number of potential people that could be "reached" (to use that word here) about winter sports would still be significantly much higher in China than it would be in Kazahkstan. Yeah, especially with China. China is a huge country, as big as the US (in size). Pretty sure all the states wouldn't care for the winter games unless it comes to pride and patriotism (which is not the same as sports). My family is from southern China, a place where it is hot and humid, with literally no snowfall in even the mountains. Pretty sure my family would not care to travel all the way across the country to skii or explore the smoggy winter (Beijing itself is a different matter). Comparing the U.S. with China in this case is pretty disingenuous, considering the U.S. has a pretty good developed winter sport culture anyway. As far as all the states not caring, that doesn't mean that there still won't be people in warmer/humid climates willing to know/learn more about winter sports. You can see television ads in warmer climates in the U.S. advertising for ski resorts in the colder parts of the country. So simply bcuz your family in southern China might not care about knowing more, doesn't mean everyone there would feel that way, especially the younger people who could feel compelled enough to learn & then compete in winter sports. And that's really where the crux of the matter is. The Olympics are all about promoting their brand to make it more desirable worldwide as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 China couldn't care enough to re-purpose all of the facilities used in the 2008 Olympics, and it won't be any different for the facilities they'll use for the 2022 Winter Olympics. You have a nation of 1.3 billion and you couldn't generate interest on the population tackling new sports events for future competition? Yea, good luck doing that for winter sports where the majority of the population never see a true winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Well then much less for a nation of only 18 million. Let's just face it already, both of these bids are nothing but pure CACA. And the only reason that we're even talking about them is simply bcuz virtually all of Europe pulled out. But the IOC still has to choose which one of these huge turds is going to stink the less. And really don't see how that could still be Almaty. Yeah, they have more venues in place (which would still need to be upgraded to Olympic standards anyway), but they still have to build the sliding venue, the figure skating venue, the Olympic Village & two media centers. Not to mention more hotels (since they don't have enough, & don't need anyway post Games) & roads. Deal with security personnel that doesn't really meet international standards. And a dubious political & economic landscape all runned by one strong-arm since 1991. Putin, anyone? But without all the posh & glamor. Yeah, all of that sounds so much better. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'll leave this here, because if I were an IOC member I wouldn't even show up to vote: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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