Jump to content

CanUKAusNZ


  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Support Free Movement

    • Yes
      8
    • No
      5


Recommended Posts

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/free-movement-proposed-between-canada-u-k-australia-new-zealand-1.2998105

Since so many people here are on from one of the Anglo-Commonwealths I thought it would be interesting to share.

I would support it, it would be great to be able to move freely between the 4 countries. I mean it is already relatively easy, especially going to the UK.

I would especially like it if it opened up education opportunities between the 4 countries. Australia has a wonderful graduate degree system that is a lot more about practical and career training. It is just prohibitively expensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Use to happen in "Empire" days. Everyone had a British passport.

Are looking at Express lanes at passport control but UK is hamstrung by EU rules...for now.

As for tertiary training, it sort of is easier, more so tween Aus and NZ. UK is more difficult though thanks to...yet again...EU rules.

Boris Johnson is an advocate for freedom of movement tween Commonwealth nations and is trying to push for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people think there should be an Anglo-Sphere Union between the UK, US, Canada, Australia, and NZ.

Even without the US I think this would be a good idea.

Not possible.

1) The USA has differing views on immigration than Canada and the UK. The American government very much prefers Central American immigrants rather than muslims. Even without the fear of terrorism Mexicans assimilate into American society within three generations so there's no reason to admit people from the Middle East who seem to take four or five generations to fully assimilate in Europe. (I'm not saying it's right, that's just how people see it.)

2) The Canadian government is fiercely protective of Canadian jobs. You can get into Canada much more easily than the USA, but the Canadian government really doesn't like Americans (or Brits or Australians, or whatever) actually working to benefit the Canadian economy while they are there. Conversely Canadians can get a green card in the USA very easily, so the Canadian gov't sees no reason to change its policy.

I agree that the commonwealth is a great natural trading bloc (because it was a de facto trading bloc for a couple hundred years, after all) and could ease travel and work restrictions. But the EU is a major obstacle. It's going to be asked why the UK would agree to free movement with Canada and Australia when they don't want free movement with France and Spain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not possible.

1) The USA has differing views on immigration than Canada and the UK. The American government very much prefers Central American immigrants rather than muslims. Even without the fear of terrorism Mexicans assimilate into American society within three generations so there's no reason to admit people from the Middle East who seem to take four or five generations to fully assimilate in Europe. (I'm not saying it's right, that's just how people see it.)

2) The Canadian government is fiercely protective of Canadian jobs. You can get into Canada much more easily than the USA, but the Canadian government really doesn't like Americans (or Brits or Australians, or whatever) actually working to benefit the Canadian economy while they are there. Conversely Canadians can get a green card in the USA very easily, so the Canadian gov't sees no reason to change its policy.

I agree that the commonwealth is a great natural trading bloc (because it was a de facto trading bloc for a couple hundred years, after all) and could ease travel and work restrictions. But the EU is a major obstacle. It's going to be asked why the UK would agree to free movement with Canada and Australia when they don't want free movement with France and Spain.

While you do make good points I was not in support of the US joining this union, but if such a union did exist the United State's would not like it because it puts British military in the pacific and other geographical areas the US does not want Britain in. Additionally NAFTA could always open the door to US-Canadian unification, but like you mention there are problems with it.

However I do deeply disagree with your last point. It makes more sense for the UK to be in a union with it's own Commonwealth then countries it has fought for hundreds of years. It makes more sense for the UK to be in a union with nations that all have a common culture, the same head of state, and the same language then a union with nations that differ radically in culture and language. To me at least it seems that an Anglo Union would make more sense for the UK then a European one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except for the minor fact that the neighbours next door may have a bigger influence on your daily life than the distant relatives at opposite ends of the globe.

But that's just from my "neighbour perspective" though. BTW, a lot more of the UK's neighbours speak its language than viceversa. So it's an alienation (alien nation?) by choice if the UK turns its back to Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except for the minor fact that the neighbours next door may have a bigger influence on your daily life than the distant relatives at opposite ends of the globe.

But that's just from my "neighbour perspective" though. BTW, a lot more of the UK's neighbours speak its language than viceversa. So it's an alienation (alien nation?) by choice if the UK turns its back to Europe.

That is true, but in terms of similarities I think it makes more sense for the UK to be unified with its children countries, but I think either way you look at it the UK will be absorbed by some union or country within the next century. What remains to be decided is whether that will be the Common Wealth, the US, or Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good points all round.

Likewise Australia and New Zealand are intertwined with their own economic benefits union of sorts called CER, Closer Economic Relations agreement, which was created by the now late Malcolm Fraser. Businesses on both sides of the Tasman can set up within both countries with realtive ease. Also in the very early days of "Colonial" NZ, the country was part of NSW so the banking systems became intertwined still to this very day. Most consider Canada as a distant cousin like the USA and see those two countries in the same likeness...The bond here of course is the "common tongue".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It makes more sense for the UK to be in a union with nations that all have a common culture

you mean the common culture the UK shares with canada and australia of worshiping american popstars and hollywood movies?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its a nice idea and very appealing from an emotional perspective, but practically in terms of the movement of goods to mass markets it just doesn't make sense. Canada and the US and Aus/Nz with china are ploughing ahead economically, forging links to each other.

I would expect that if the UK leaves the EU in 2017 then the Government will be working overtime to set up free trade deals with the EU, US, India and China in that order of priority. The Commonwealth countries are far less important economically to the UK and vice versa. However, its the cultural links that are important to maintain. We have so much in common in terms of legal systems, and other institutional/political commonalities that it makes sense to maintain a special relationship with each other....and to learn from each other.

In terms of geopolitics the UK is very wedded to NATO and is still a potent military force. Our area of interest is very much the North Atlantic. The UK is building 2 massive aircraft carriers (at massive expense) but I seriously doubt they are intended to project military power in any serious sense. I think we know our limitations and will leave China and the Pacific to the US to deal with.

I see the UK being a bit of a lone wolf in future - of Europe but not part of it. A much diminished but very useful ally for the US. I don't see Europe (Germany) wanting any kind of leading role in world politics beyond selling cars to China and placating Putin. A lot will hinge on how the Euro zone fares - that's the EU now in all but name.

I see Australia/NZ becoming very much more China orientated and perhaps forging a more unilateral role in the world without the cultural baggage of "The Empire". I see Canada as ever more wedded to the US with token gesture free trade agreements elsewhere to stave off inevitable domination by the US economy.

At the end of the day though there is something... a basic level of cultural understanding between the UK/Aus/Can/NZ which is not about the Queen - there is a depth to our relationships due to family ties that I just haven't experienced with other nationalities. Its not a mother child relationship from this end of things - despite all the historic baggage of Empire I think we do view our Commonwealth cousins as equals and not a lesser form of sovereign nation. Some may disagree but that's what I believe. Its quite frustrating sometimes to hear "ex-dominions" refer to the relationship in begrudging terms when I really don't see it that way. Australia is richer and more prosperous than the UK for example - who are we to lord it over anyone...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More a common culture of smuggling British/ Canadian/ Australian/ NZ talent into the American entertainment system.

yea that doesn't last long when it comes to musicians. Remember when Australia attempted to shove Kylie Minogue down Americans' throats as the new Madonna, yet she barely scratched the surface of the lucrative US entertainment business. And New Zealand acts such as Lorde are a fad and Americans will lose their interest fast. Even the days of British acts making a huge impact on the music industry here are a rarity. The best that the UK and Europe can muster here right now is if they offer up their production skills with our current acts. Canada has recently given us Justin Bieber, which is an embarrassment on both our countries but hey he makes money so props to Canada I guess on that one!

Now when it comes to film, yes Canadians, British and Australians have made a significant impact on our film industry that doesn't seem to wear down. But still, most of them would be nothing without the American money invested in their careers through movie franchises and films no the more artistic side. So whatever success other countries have in the US entertainment market is still on Americans' terms and not their own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also think a very likely scenario would be an Aus/Nz union and a Canadian/USA union. It geographically makes more sense.

Personally I don't see China as the big player everyone thinks it is, times change. I'm sure that at the end of the 19th century anyone thought European nations would no longer be the worlds sole leaders in twenty years. Another thing to remember is that the CPC is facing internal conflict and the division between the Chinese East Coast and Western Heartland is getting larger and larger everyday. Then again what do I know, I'm just a person on the internet and anything can happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah? Are you ready for this then???

http://www.yaofamilywines.com/our-story/

What are you trying to prove? That China is such a horrible country that their wealthier citizens are moving to the states and setting up companies that will only help the US? I mean if that was your goal well done, but if it was to prove that China is overtaking the US then it was petty, racist, and ignorant. Go read any article on current events in China or even Chinese history and you will see that China very rarely stays a global power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yea that doesn't last long when it comes to musicians. Remember when Australia attempted to shove Kylie Minogue down Americans' throats as the new Madonna, yet she barely scratched the surface of the lucrative US entertainment business. And New Zealand acts such as Lorde are a fad and Americans will lose their interest fast. Even the days of British acts making a huge impact on the music industry here are a rarity. The best that the UK and Europe can muster here right now is if they offer up their production skills with our current acts. Canada has recently given us Justin Bieber, which is an embarrassment on both our countries but hey he makes money so props to Canada I guess on that one!

Now when it comes to film, yes Canadians, British and Australians have made a significant impact on our film industry that doesn't seem to wear down. But still, most of them would be nothing without the American money invested in their careers through movie franchises and films no the more artistic side. So whatever success other countries have in the US entertainment market is still on Americans' terms and not their own.

On the music thing, your timing may be a little off. This week in the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100 we have Mark Ronson (doing the "production skills" thing with Bruno Mars) at No. 1; Ed Sheeran at 3; Ellie Goulding at 4; Rihanna (another Commonwealth talent) and Paul McCartney with Kanye at 5, and Sam Smith at 8 (Sam and Ed are also in the top 10 albums).

You're at least partially right about the "on Americans' terms" thing of course, but with franchises like Harry Potter, Tolkien, Bond and 50 Shades originating in Britain, British terms are not overlooked entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its a nice idea and very appealing from an emotional perspective, but practically in terms of the movement of goods to mass markets it just doesn't make sense. Canada and the US and Aus/Nz with china are ploughing ahead economically, forging links to each other.

I would expect that if the UK leaves the EU in 2017 then the Government will be working overtime to set up free trade deals with the EU, US, India and China in that order of priority. The Commonwealth countries are far less important economically to the UK and vice versa. However, its the cultural links that are important to maintain. We have so much in common in terms of legal systems, and other institutional/political commonalities that it makes sense to maintain a special relationship with each other....and to learn from each other.

In terms of geopolitics the UK is very wedded to NATO and is still a potent military force. Our area of interest is very much the North Atlantic. The UK is building 2 massive aircraft carriers (at massive expense) but I seriously doubt they are intended to project military power in any serious sense. I think we know our limitations and will leave China and the Pacific to the US to deal with.

I see the UK being a bit of a lone wolf in future - of Europe but not part of it. A much diminished but very useful ally for the US. I don't see Europe (Germany) wanting any kind of leading role in world politics beyond selling cars to China and placating Putin. A lot will hinge on how the Euro zone fares - that's the EU now in all but name.

I see Australia/NZ becoming very much more China orientated and perhaps forging a more unilateral role in the world without the cultural baggage of "The Empire". I see Canada as ever more wedded to the US with token gesture free trade agreements elsewhere to stave off inevitable domination by the US economy.

At the end of the day though there is something... a basic level of cultural understanding between the UK/Aus/Can/NZ which is not about the Queen - there is a depth to our relationships due to family ties that I just haven't experienced with other nationalities. Its not a mother child relationship from this end of things - despite all the historic baggage of Empire I think we do view our Commonwealth cousins as equals and not a lesser form of sovereign nation. Some may disagree but that's what I believe. Its quite frustrating sometimes to hear "ex-dominions" refer to the relationship in begrudging terms when I really don't see it that way. Australia is richer and more prosperous than the UK for example - who are we to lord it over anyone...

This. Australia's future is in Asia, and the UKs with Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...