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There is a way to get a Norway-Sweden bid back for 2022...


baron-pierreIV
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If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

Beijing was supposed to be the backup bid in all this and look at them now.. they're going to win it. The IOC can't choose who bids or doesn't bid. And in this case, all those cities your mentioned were discouraged from bidding. Beggars can't be choosers.

I was confused on what You was saying, but I realised You were saying Sweets and Nuts.

I know Beijing are going to Win it, but when the 6 Origional Bidders were there, Beijing was the back up Host.

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Currently Almaty only has direct flights to Europe from Barcelona, Moscow, Amsterdam, Prague, Frankfurt, London, Kyiv and St. Petersburg. Even Aeroflot doesn't fly there. No direct services to North America. Major Asian cities are Seoul, Bangkok, Beijing, and Hong Kong.

Does the IOC think it will be plausible to bring in thousands of spectators from traditional WOG countries with these limited services? Or will they just make the tickets cheap enough for locals and write off the losses?

Short of a major event between now and the voting, it's Beijing kids.

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Currently Almaty only has direct flights to Europe from Barcelona, Moscow, Amsterdam, Prague, Frankfurt, London, Kyiv and St. Petersburg. Even Aeroflot doesn't fly there. No direct services to North America. Major Asian cities are Seoul, Bangkok, Beijing, and Hong Kong.

Does the IOC think it will be plausible to bring in thousands of spectators from traditional WOG countries with these limited services? Or will they just make the tickets cheap enough for locals and write off the losses?

Short of a major event between now and the voting, it's Beijing kids.

Good research. Did you look up the list of cities that have direct flights from Sochi? Guessing it's not much better. For reference..

Sochi International Airport

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Currently Almaty only has direct flights to Europe from Barcelona, Moscow, Amsterdam, Prague, Frankfurt, London, Kyiv and St. Petersburg. Even Aeroflot doesn't fly there. No direct services to North America. Major Asian cities are Seoul, Bangkok, Beijing, and Hong Kong.

Does the IOC think it will be plausible to bring in thousands of spectators from traditional WOG countries with these limited services? Or will they just make the tickets cheap enough for locals and write off the losses?

Short of a major event between now and the voting, it's Beijing kids.

Yea but, why the need for a direct flight to Almaty of all places??? It's not world-renowned as a tourist or business center so there is no need for any direct flights. It wouldn't be too difficult to get there with just one layover since many of those mentioned cities have a direct flight from the US. Looking at a map, it's shorter to travel to get to Almaty from Europe than from Asia.

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Currently Almaty only has direct flights to Europe from Barcelona, Moscow, Amsterdam, Prague, Frankfurt, London, Kyiv and St. Petersburg. Even Aeroflot doesn't fly there. No direct services to North America. Major Asian cities are Seoul, Bangkok, Beijing, and Hong Kong.

Does the IOC think it will be plausible to bring in thousands of spectators from traditional WOG countries with these limited services? Or will they just make the tickets cheap enough for locals and write off the losses?

That's actually a pretty decent list of cities. Especially, as mentioned, compared to Sochi. Direct flight on BA from London gives you a one-connection flight on a OneWorld airline from almost any big city. KLM and Lufthansa gives you the same on StarAlliance.

Besides, visitors to WOG are a pretty hearty lot. We'll find a way to get wherever the games are. Now, I totally agree that the IOC voters don't want to go to Kazakhstan. But, logistically, they can handle it.

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Even logistically is still a big question mark. Aside from flights & a few venues on the ground, there's still the question of enough adequate infrastructure, hotel space, etc. If there was, I don't believe their prelimanary review would've been so poor TBW.

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My thought was incomplete... :)

Already Almaty's in a crap timezone for European and North American TV audiences. Almaty is 3 hours ahead of Sochi--5 hours, therefore from CET. Factoring in the flight issues and it becomes less appealing. Beijing's 7 hour difference with Europe makes the TV scheduling less challenging, as it were.

Sochi won because it was the Russian bid. Kazakhstan isn't Russia, sport-wise or influence-wise.

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Also, what some People forget to realise is that Almaty are only Hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade because they were the only Bidder.

Beijing has more Positives in it's Bid then Almaty does.

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Oh, c'mon now. The only reason they "made it" to the short-list, is because everyone else that was worthwhile was dropping out left & right, &/or abandoned their intentions to bid in the first place. Their grade in the prelimary evaluation was very poor. So yeah, I would say that not scoring adequately in 11 out of 14 categories IS "that bad". And the only reason why they're still part of the discussion is because the IOC was so desperate since everyone else was telling them to go & fly a fu@king kite. If they get yet another lackluster review in the F.E.R. next year, then they're definitely done for.

Being devils advocate here...

Rio barely made it on the 2016 shortlist, didn't make the 2012 one, and was scored worse than almost all the cities it beat. Hell, Rio beat three world class cities and had the worst scores out of all of them.

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You can play devil's advocate all you want, but you're comparing apples to oranges to say the least.

First all of, while Rio did score lower than the cities it ultimately beat, it still scored much higher than what Almaty did in their respective preliminary evaluation. And while Rio did beat out three world-class cities, it's not like Rio is chop liver either. The fact that the IOC chose to cut Doha in favor of Rio (even though the Qatari city scored higher) is quite telling in itself.

Rio is an exotic locale (with millions visiting the city each year, even before they won the 2016 bid), located not only in a country that hasn't hosted & with a growing economy, but also in a CONTINENT that's also never had the privilege to host. Almaty can boast nothing of the sort. And the fact that you think that the two could be comparable in anyway shape or form, is pretty lopsided, TBQH.

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The "technical" report is not that significant when everything on it is not varying greatly. But that's not the case here.

People holding on to Beijing's smog is virtually akin to the people who were shoving Fukushima against Tokyo. Yet you had no problems with their election. Go figure.

The IOC seemed confident otherwise. So I don't see much of a difference in Beijing's case. There's no luxury in compelling choices here.

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Well obviously the technical evaluation isn't that significant then hey FYI?

They manipulate it in their favor anyway, I mean Beijing's environment 6.0-8.0? that's laughable. Everyone knows how repulsive Beijing's air quality is.

Yea, air quality is going to be a big concern for these candidates. Just look at this photo. Who would want an Olympics in a place like this.. City Under Smog Cover

0_c7c54_3a1d0031_XXL.jpg

Take the evaluation scores for what they're worth, but they paint a really unflattering picture of Almaty. So if we're lining up these 2 candidates against each other (and that's essentially what's going to happen), we all know Beijing's air quality is an issue, but they still scored better than Almaty in that category. So unless you think that score was manipulated as well, what does that say about the environment of these 2 cities relative to each other?

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Yea, air quality is going to be a big concern for these candidates. Just look at this photo. Who would want an Olympics in a place like this.. City Under Smog Cover

0_c7c54_3a1d0031_XXL.jpg

Take the evaluation scores for what they're worth, but they paint a really unflattering picture of Almaty. So if we're lining up these 2 candidates against each other (and that's essentially what's going to happen), we all know Beijing's air quality is an issue, but they still scored better than Almaty in that category. So unless you think that score was manipulated as well, what does that say about the environment of these 2 cities relative to each other?

We can easily play which picture of the two cities shows the worst air pollution, hands down Beijing will win.

And what it tells me is that both of the cities have an awful environment except the IOC somehow ranked Beijing 6.0-8.0. Do you really think they deserved such a high score?

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Obviously sharing the costs between two countries would help them but otherwise hard to say why this would be a stronger bid than a one-country bid. Oslo is the only Nordic city able to host the Olympics with Alpine skiing venues within a reasonable distance, in Norway (Lillehammer region).

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Not very compactly but you have new rules now.

Stockolm-Äre could be a good idea.

That's what they were planning and some people found that problematic.

And Stockholm-Åre distance is about the same as Stockholm-Lillehammer. Åre might be more ready and better for Alpine skiing. Lillehammer had Alpine skiing in two venues Kvitfjell (downhill & super-G) and Hafjell (giant slalom & slalom), Åre can host all Alpine skiing events at the same mountain with a common finish area. Besides, I think Lillehammer doesn't have separate downhill slopes for men and women which is a requirement for the Alpine Worlds and what they have in Åre.

On the other hand, Lillehammer would have the luge/bob/skeleton track what Sweden obviously doesn't have.

Obviously hosting Alpine events and luge/bob/skeleton in Lillehammer might be a bit less costly but I can't see it as so much better an option, especially as the distance is the same, that Sweden would have some events in Norway.

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