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Do ETs really want to get to know us?


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Not really,

Here's something I posted on my FB timeline:

Is there anything really out there in space for us earthlings? I mean we (humans) spend Gadjillions each year over the last hundred years or what?, trying to "probe the mysteries of space" and trying to make contact with other possible beings out there. With NO LUCK. The point is, they are out there -- but they DON'T want to have anything to do with us. They've been here before (Cuzo, Peru and other places) and THEY've left because this is a meshugenah (crazy) planet, full of unpredictable, stupid, vain people. They really want to have nothing to do with us.

But again, it is our vanity that keeps hoping that someone else out there wants to get to know us. Who are we kidding? They DON'T!! That's why they have us under a microscope hoping we don't spread our stupid, self-destructive ways to other, more ordered worlds. But we just don't get the hint-- and we keep spending those billions for what? Discovery of kevlar? Prepackaged meals? The microwave? Nanotechnology? Big F**cking Deal!!

This NASA, etc., and the space industries in other countries are all a big scam just so those useless space scientists are kept in tow, not building other idiotic robots, and not having them on the unemployment lines. If there was a way for me NOT to have my taxes go to such stupid purposes and go to more earthly pursuits, I would. Landing a craft on a comet? BFD!

Discuss.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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I've got this bookmarked, it's one of my favourite things on the web....

In 1970, a Zambia-based nun named Sister Mary Jucunda wrote to Dr. Ernst Stuhlinger, then-associate director of science at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, in response to his ongoing research into a piloted mission to Mars. Specifically, she asked how he could suggest spending billions of dollars on such a project at a time when so many children were starving on Earth.

Stuhlinger soon sent the following letter of explanation to Sister Jucunda, along with a copy of "Earthrise," the iconic photograph of Earth taken in 1968 by astronaut William Anders, from the Moon (also embedded in the transcript). His thoughtful reply was later published by NASA, and titled, "Why Explore Space?"

(Source: Roger Launius, via Gavin Williams; Photo above: The surface of Mars, taken by Curiosity today, August 6th, 2012. Via NASA.)

Dear Sister Mary Jucunda:

Your letter was one of many which are reaching me every day, but it has touched me more deeply than all the others because it came so much from the depths of a searching mind and a compassionate heart. I will try to answer your question as best as I possibly can.

First, however, I would like to express my great admiration for you, and for all your many brave sisters, because you are dedicating your lives to the noblest cause of man: help for his fellowmen who are in need.

You asked in your letter how I could suggest the expenditures of billions of dollars for a voyage to Mars, at a time when many children on this Earth are starving to death. I know that you do not expect an answer such as "Oh, I did not know that there are children dying from hunger, but from now on I will desist from any kind of space research until mankind has solved that problem!" In fact, I have known of famined children long before I knew that a voyage to the planet Mars is technically feasible. However, I believe, like many of my friends, that travelling to the Moon and eventually to Mars and to other planets is a venture which we should undertake now, and I even believe that this project, in the long run, will contribute more to the solution of these grave problems we are facing here on Earth than many other potential projects of help which are debated and discussed year after year, and which are so extremely slow in yielding tangible results.

Before trying to describe in more detail how our space program is contributing to the solution of our Earthly problems, I would like to relate briefly a supposedly true story, which may help support the argument. About 400 years ago, there lived a count in a small town in Germany. He was one of the benign counts, and he gave a large part of his income to the poor in his town. This was much appreciated, because poverty was abundant during medieval times, and there were epidemics of the plague which ravaged the country frequently. One day, the count met a strange man. He had a workbench and little laboratory in his house, and he labored hard during the daytime so that he could afford a few hours every evening to work in his laboratory. He ground small lenses from pieces of glass; he mounted the lenses in tubes, and he used these gadgets to look at very small objects. The count was particularly fascinated by the tiny creatures that could be observed with the strong magnification, and which he had never seen before. He invited the man to move with his laboratory to the castle, to become a member of the count's household, and to devote henceforth all his time to the development and perfection of his optical gadgets as a special employee of the count.

The townspeople, however, became angry when they realized that the count was wasting his money, as they thought, on a stunt without purpose. "We are suffering from this plague," they said, "while he is paying that man for a useless hobby!" But the count remained firm. "I give you as much as I can afford," he said, "but I will also support this man and his work, because I know that someday something will come out of it!"

Indeed, something very good came out of this work, and also out of similar work done by others at other places: the microscope. It is well known that the microscope has contributed more than any other invention to the progress of medicine, and that the elimination of the plague and many other contagious diseases from most parts of the world is largely a result of studies which the microscope made possible.

The count, by retaining some of his spending money for research and discovery, contributed far more to the relief of human suffering than he could have contributed by giving all he could possibly spare to his plague-ridden community.

The situation which we are facing today is similar in many respects. The President of the United States is spending about 200 billion dollars in his yearly budget. This money goes to health, education, welfare, urban renewal, highways, transportation, foreign aid, defense, conservation, science, agriculture and many installations inside and outside the country. About 1.6 percent of this national budget was allocated to space exploration this year. The space program includes Project Apollo, and many other smaller projects in space physics, space astronomy, space biology, planetary projects, Earth resources projects, and space engineering. To make this expenditure for the space program possible, the average American taxpayer with 10,000 dollars income per year is paying about 30 tax dollars for space. The rest of his income, 9,970 dollars, remains for his subsistence, his recreation, his savings, his other taxes, and all his other expenditures.

You will probably ask now: "Why don't you take 5 or 3 or 1 dollar out of the 30 space dollars which the average American taxpayer is paying, and send these dollars to the hungry children?" To answer this question, I have to explain briefly how the economy of this country works. The situation is very similar in other countries. The government consists of a number of departments (Interior, Justice, Health, Education and Welfare, Transportation, Defense, and others) and the bureaus (National Science Foundation, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and others). All of them prepare their yearly budgets according to their assigned missions, and each of them must defend its budget against extremely severe screening by congressional committees, and against heavy pressure for economy from the Bureau of the Budget and the President. When the funds are finally appropriated by Congress, they can be spent only for the line items specified and approved in the budget.

The budget of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, naturally, can contain only items directly related to aeronautics and space. If this budget were not approved by Congress, the funds proposed for it would not be available for something else; they would simply not be levied from the taxpayer, unless one of the other budgets had obtained approval for a specific increase which would then absorb the funds not spent for space. You realize from this brief discourse that support for hungry children, or rather a support in addition to what the United States is already contributing to this very worthy cause in the form of foreign aid, can be obtained only if the appropriate department submits a budget line item for this purpose, and if this line item is then approved by Congress.

You may ask now whether I personally would be in favor of such a move by our government. My answer is an emphatic yes. Indeed, I would not mind at all if my annual taxes were increased by a number of dollars for the purpose of feeding hungry children, wherever they may live.

I know that all of my friends feel the same way. However, we could not bring such a program to life merely by desisting from making plans for voyages to Mars. On the contrary, I even believe that by working for the space program I can make some contribution to the relief and eventual solution of such grave problems as poverty and hunger on Earth. Basic to the hunger problem are two functions: the production of food and the distribution of food. Food production by agriculture, cattle ranching, ocean fishing and other large-scale operations is efficient in some parts of the world, but drastically deficient in many others. For example, large areas of land could be utilized far better if efficient methods of watershed control, fertilizer use, weather forecasting, fertility assessment, plantation programming, field selection, planting habits, timing of cultivation, crop survey and harvest planning were applied.

The best tool for the improvement of all these functions, undoubtedly, is the artificial Earth satellite. Circling the globe at a high altitude, it can screen wide areas of land within a short time; it can observe and measure a large variety of factors indicating the status and condition of crops, soil, droughts, rainfall, snow cover, etc., and it can radio this information to ground stations for appropriate use. It has been estimated that even a modest system of Earth satellites equipped with Earth resources, sensors, working within a program for worldwide agricultural improvements, will increase the yearly crops by an equivalent of many billions of dollars.

The distribution of the food to the needy is a completely different problem. The question is not so much one of shipping volume, it is one of international cooperation. The ruler of a small nation may feel very uneasy about the prospect of having large quantities of food shipped into his country by a large nation, simply because he fears that along with the food there may also be an import of influence and foreign power. Efficient relief from hunger, I am afraid, will not come before the boundaries between nations have become less divisive than they are today. I do not believe that space flight will accomplish this miracle over night. However, the space program is certainly among the most promising and powerful agents working in this direction.

Let me only remind you of the recent near-tragedy of Apollo 13. When the time of the crucial reentry of the astronauts approached, the Soviet Union discontinued all Russian radio transmissions in the frequency bands used by the Apollo Project in order to avoid any possible interference, and Russian ships stationed themselves in the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans in case an emergency rescue would become necessary. Had the astronaut capsule touched down near a Russian ship, the Russians would undoubtedly have expended as much care and effort in their rescue as if Russian cosmonauts had returned from a space trip. If Russian space travelers should ever be in a similar emergency situation, Americans would do the same without any doubt.

Higher food production through survey and assessment from orbit, and better food distribution through improved international relations, are only two examples of how profoundly the space program will impact life on Earth. I would like to quote two other examples: stimulation of technological development, and generation of scientific knowledge.

The requirements for high precision and for extreme reliability which must be imposed upon the components of a moon-travelling spacecraft are entirely unprecedented in the history of engineering. The development of systems which meet these severe requirements has provided us a unique opportunity to find new material and methods, to invent better technical systems, to manufacturing procedures, to lengthen the lifetimes of instruments, and even to discover new laws of nature.

All this newly acquired technical knowledge is also available for application to Earth-bound technologies. Every year, about a thousand technical innovations generated in the space program find their ways into our Earthly technology where they lead to better kitchen appliances and farm equipment, better sewing machines and radios, better ships and airplanes, better weather forecasting and storm warning, better communications, better medical instruments, better utensils and tools for everyday life. Presumably, you will ask now why we must develop first a life support system for our moon-travelling astronauts, before we can build a remote-reading sensor system for heart patients. The answer is simple: significant progress in the solutions of technical problems is frequently made not by a direct approach, but by first setting a goal of high challenge which offers a strong motivation for innovative work, which fires the imagination and spurs men to expend their best efforts, and which acts as a catalyst by including chains of other reactions.

Spaceflight without any doubt is playing exactly this role. The voyage to Mars will certainly not be a direct source of food for the hungry. However, it will lead to so many new technologies and capabilities that the spin-offs from this project alone will be worth many times the cost of its implementation.

Besides the need for new technologies, there is a continuing great need for new basic knowledge in the sciences if we wish to improve the conditions of human life on Earth. We need more knowledge in physics and chemistry, in biology and physiology, and very particularly in medicine to cope with all these problems which threaten man's life: hunger, disease, contamination of food and water, pollution of the environment.

We need more young men and women who choose science as a career and we need better support for those scientists who have the talent and the determination to engage in fruitful research work. Challenging research objectives must be available, and sufficient support for research projects must be provided. Again, the space program with its wonderful opportunities to engage in truly magnificent research studies of moons and planets, of physics and astronomy, of biology and medicine is an almost ideal catalyst which induces the reaction between the motivation for scientific work, opportunities to observe exciting phenomena of nature, and material support needed to carry out the research effort.

Among all the activities which are directed, controlled, and funded by the American government, the space program is certainly the most visible and probably the most debated activity, although it consumes only 1.6 percent of the total national budget, and 3 per mille (less than one-third of 1 percent) of the gross national product. As a stimulant and catalyst for the development of new technologies, and for research in the basic sciences, it is unparalleled by any other activity. In this respect, we may even say that the space program is taking over a function which for three or four thousand years has been the sad prerogative of wars.

How much human suffering can be avoided if nations, instead of competing with their bomb-dropping fleets of airplanes and rockets, compete with their moon-travelling space ships! This competition is full of promise for brilliant victories, but it leaves no room for the bitter fate of the vanquished, which breeds nothing but revenge and new wars.

Although our space program seems to lead us away from our Earth and out toward the moon, the sun, the planets, and the stars, I believe that none of these celestial objects will find as much attention and study by space scientists as our Earth. It will become a better Earth, not only because of all the new technological and scientific knowledge which we will apply to the betterment of life, but also because we are developing a far deeper appreciation of our Earth, of life, and of man.

7724458444_0e91f569b3_o.jpg

The photograph which I enclose with this letter shows a view of our Earth as seen from Apollo 8 when it orbited the moon at Christmas, 1968. Of all the many wonderful results of the space program so far, this picture may be the most important one. It opened our eyes to the fact that our Earth is a beautiful and most precious island in an unlimited void, and that there is no other place for us to live but the thin surface layer of our planet, bordered by the bleak nothingness of space. Never before did so many people recognize how limited our Earth really is, and how perilous it would be to tamper with its ecological balance. Ever since this picture was first published, voices have become louder and louder warning of the grave problems that confront man in our times: pollution, hunger, poverty, urban living, food production, water control, overpopulation. It is certainly not by accident that we begin to see the tremendous tasks waiting for us at a time when the young space age has provided us the first good look at our own planet.

Very fortunately though, the space age not only holds out a mirror in which we can see ourselves, it also provides us with the technologies, the challenge, the motivation, and even with the optimism to attack these tasks with confidence. What we learn in our space program, I believe, is fully supporting what Albert Schweitzer had in mind when he said: "I am looking at the future with concern, but with good hope."

My very best wishes will always be with you, and with your children.

Very sincerely yours,

Ernst Stuhlinger

Associate Director for Science

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html

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Oh God, Rob, can you give me a summarized version in 100 words or less? Too much info. I can't read it!!

And here's more of my original hypothesis:

Other MORE intelligent beings MOVED away from Quadrant Earth a LONG TIME ago. And because we keep probing farther and farther away, we don't see the signs those wise old beings put up all over the galaxy -- STAY AWAY IF YOU KNOW WHAT's GOOD FOR YOU!! But we never see those signs because we think we're always on "this journey of discovery," always looking ahead...NOT in the rear view mirror!!

Those beings knew the age-old adage...There's NO place like home. Not some ridiculous 6 months in a space lab where your bones get all rickety...and something only WE EJITS do to monkeys and apes and ourselves. And this Richard Branson promising to send people like tourists to the moon. Yeah, I'd take out life/fight insurance on all those fools!!

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Well, that's just one region's effort. What about total costs globally?

Russia - secret (but probably, say, $51 billion - same cost as what was spent on Sochi)

USA (NASA budget for 2015) $17.5 billion

China - maybe $20 billion at least (knowing how ambitious the Chinese are to be #1)

India - another wannabee - $2.5 billion??

France, Britain - $5 $10 $15 billion?

Brazil - will probably start to reach $1 billion soon.

It's NOT just one region/country. It's this global WASTE of money for a few stupid rocks and some nerds in control room (human space lab rats) erupt into orgasms every time a launch is successful. Imagine the advances in earthbound medicine if all that money instead went into R&D of OUR diseases not what's happening to a few rocks on the moon; or fixing global warming or the eradication of islam.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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It's NOT just one region/country. It's this global WASTE of money for a few stupid rocks and some nerds in control room (human space lab rats) erupt into orgasms every time a launch is successful. Imagine the advances in earthbound medicine if all that money instead went into R&D of OUR diseases not what's happening to a few rocks on the moon; or fixing global warming or the eradication of islam.

The funny thing is that it looks like you edited this post 2 hours after you first put it up. So I feel obligated to ask..

f8ce0ff33ec32c9e6d207078e52bea14a1795afc

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Baron, the Earth exists in space and is a part of space. It comes from outer space and so do we. It is important to understand what goes on out there because it can have a very deep influence on what happens here on Earth!

Comets like the one Nasa has just landed a probe on have struck the Earth many times. One of them killed off the dinosaurs and so paved the way for us humans to evolve and exist. Many scientists believe that it was comets that brought water to the Earth and seeded it with microbes that kickstarted life here in the first place. They hold the key to our past and also to our future. It is vitally important to understand them better and see what they can tell us about our own world,how likely they will pose a threat to us in the future and how we may best avert any such threat!

Everything out in space and here on Earth is interlinked. It is impossible to understand one without understanding the other.

A rich society lady once asked Michael Faraday what possible use his newly discovered electric dynamo would prove to be. He replied:

"Madam, what use is a baby?"

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The funny thing is that it looks like you edited this post 2 hours after you first put it up. So I feel obligated to ask..

f8ce0ff33ec32c9e6d207078e52bea14a1795afc

Indeed. I feel even more strongly that if there were ways possible, that cult should be eliminated from the face of civilized society. And I make no bones about it.

Baron, the Earth exists in space and is a part of space. It comes from outer space and so do we. It is important to understand what goes on out there because it can have a very deep influence on what happens here on Earth!

Comets like the one Nasa has just landed a probe on have struck the Earth many times. One of them killed off the dinosaurs and so paved the way for us humans to evolve and exist. Many scientists believe that it was comets that brought water to the Earth and seeded it with microbes that kickstarted life here in the first place. They hold the key to our past and also to our future. It is vitally important to understand them better and see what they can tell us about our own world,how likely they will pose a threat to us in the future and how we may best avert any such threat!

Everything out in space and here on Earth is interlinked. It is impossible to understand one without understanding the other.

A rich society lady once asked Michael Faraday what possible use his newly discovered electric dynamo would prove to be. He replied:

"Madam, what use is a baby?"

Probably is; but I still don't buy it and consider it a waste of man's good resources. To what end? Our "neighbors" don't really want to know -- because otherwise, they would've established tangible contact with us years ago. It's just man's folly again.

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What? Folks like Baron want to end space exploration? A waste of money eh? We might as well go back to the stone ages or become Amish. We should be driving hover cars by now!

Believe what you want. U get kevlar, some nano technology, prepackaged meals, some other things for Gazillions of dollars. You just don't see the folly of your 'exploratory'-thinking do you?? Will AMOUNT TO NOTHING; NADA, I tell ya.

But believe what you will. As they say, you can hope 'til the day you die.

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Indeed. I feel even more strongly that if there were ways possible, that cult should be eliminated from the face of civilized society. And I make no bones about it.

Wow, okay. I'll take "things that shouldn't be said on a multi-national Internet forum" for $400, Alex

Believe what you want. U get kevlar, some nano technology, prepackaged meals, some other things for Gazillions of dollars. You just don't see the folly of your 'exploratory'-thinking do you?? Will AMOUNT TO NOTHING; NADA, I tell ya.

But believe what you will. As they say, you can hope 'til the day you die.

Pretty sure the overall membership of GamesBids most definitely does NOT see the folly of exploratory thinking, as has been proven time and time again. :P

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As You all know, I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Aliens, I don't believe in Ghosts, I don't believe in UFO's. But, I do believe there are other Living Things out there far far away from Planet Earth.

I wanted to reply to Your comment Baron that Living Things that live in Space that we haven't discovered probably don't want to meet us. I disagree. I won't say if, because there most probably is other Living Things out there. The thing is, they might be doing the exact same thing as us. They might be trying to find other Living Things. The Universe is so Big, they could be anywhere, somewhere we haven't even thought about. There Planet could be just like ours, or completely different. They might not be able to survive in our World, like we might not be able to survive in there World. They might use Technology. They might have discovered us and might be observing. But, the UK Space Agency, Nasa etc are working to find these answers. It will take a long Time to get these answers, but as pointed out before, it is important. We want to know what created the Universe (Please don't reply to this if Your going to say God did, because I don't believe in God). We want to know what the Future will be like. We want to explore other Planets and Solar Systems, so we can get an idea of what the Universe and the Planets are. We want to find ways to Live on other Planets, to connect Planets together, to find information of our Universe. These are very important questions and they will have very important answers.

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Pretty sure the overall membership of GamesBids most definitely does NOT see the folly of exploratory thinking, as has been proven time and time again. :P

Uhmm... yeah, with the average (mental) age of GB at what? 18? Pretty much like nobody believed Hitler was going to start WW2 with his increasing demands for more territory. :rolleyes:

Besides, I'm not running a popularity or plurality poll here which will determine anything. I was merely seeking an exchange of ideas. And NOTHING will convince me to change my assessment of the situation. If you guys think that it's $$ well spent, then bully for you. I just DON'T happen to agree.

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I'm kind of in agreement with Baron on this one. I have no issues with space exploration, but not if that means sacrificing time and money on that instead of solving actual problems that affect us or our own nations.

I see the excessive interest in space exploration as a way to escape our problems instead of dealing with them. It's like when European nations started colonizing and invading territories around the world. All they did was move to new territories and create new problems, and even continue existing ones.


So I wouldn't be surprised that colonization in space is in the minds of space programs. We're pretty much going to devour all the resources from this planet and just go elsewhere in space to do the exact same thing. Humans have become some of the biggest parasites on this planet.

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Besides, I'm not running a popularity or plurality poll here which will determine anything. I was merely seeking an exchange of ideas. And NOTHING will convince me to change my assessment of the situation. If you guys think that it's $$ well spent, then bully for you. I just DON'T happen to agree.

So you wanted an exchange of ideas on something you've so firmly dug your heels in on that you're not going to be receptive to anyone who has a different opinion? Thanks, Ricky Gervais..

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But if you want my opinion (even though you've already passed judgment, but don't assume I disagree with you before I give an opinion).. I wasn't alive in the 50s and 60s, but I like to think the space race was more than an ego contest between the 2 cold war superpowers to see who could plant a flag on the moon first. And that it was an endeavor to accomplish something worthwhile, not just - as JFK put it - because it was a goal and a choice and we wouldn't back down from it. I remember the line in the movie Apollo 13 where they said "why are we still going to the Moon after we beat the Russians."

I don't know what NASA and other space agencies hope to gain from space exploration. I'd like to think they're doing it with purpose. Are they accomplishing anything? Again, I don't know. I know you're being sarcastic when you say that there are other life forms out there (we definitely agree on that.. it would be pretty selfish of us Earthlings to think we're the only planet with life in this whole enormous universe) but that they want nothing to do with us. But don't hide behind that as a reason to give up on space exploration. A lot of good has come from people trying to explore and reach beyond their means, so to that end, maybe space exploration isn't a total money pit.

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It's beneficial and prudent if we can learn to deflect oncoming comets and asteroids; or learn what cures for diseases there might be in a non-gravitational environment; but this thing about probing Mars or going for Jupiter, Saturn and beyond I find truly absurd, wasteful and pointless. Look at the stupid Philae satellite. Almost didn't make it; lands on the wrong side of the comet., etc. What a waste of billions of $$$ -- to achieve what??? That next time, maybe it won't bounce....that hopefully it will land on the right side?? How stupid and wasteful is all that? If that's the best that all those PhDs and super-computers and best brains can do, then we're truly a pathetic and not very sharp lot after all.

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