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Johannesburg 2024


MissEurasia
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Let's say Durban bids for 2024 and makes the shortlist. This is definitely where you and I disagree because I still don't like how they stack up in a field with some notable European cities. So to say all bets are off.. I don't see it that way. As much as the IOC talks about going to Africa, I still question whether they'll be top vote getter in this race.

Other than Paris (& perhaps maybe Berlin) who else are these "notable" European? Madrid? They've called it quits, & the same issues that plauged their 2020 bid would hamper any 2024 effort anyway. Rome? Yes, while 'notable', they've got their own issues similar to what Madrid has/had (ie weak economy). Not to mention the city is cramped, dirty & very chaotic to get around. Hamburg? Germany's Boston if anything. And then of course you got silly Baku-ku & Doha-ha. So in such a line-up, the only one I could see trumping a viable South African 2024 effort is Paris. Distant second would be Berlin. Other than that, I wouldn't vest too much in what was left.

* "notable" European cities.

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I'm well aware of all of that. It's not like any of it hasn't been addressed here before. However, I'm not the one trying to make the argument on "did the South America factor change" between Rio's first two bids & their third one when they ultimately won.

And I'm sure a multi-sport experience would help Durban's cause. But at the same time, I think some on here make too much of that aspect at times. It's not like Seoul, Barcelona & Atlanta hosted one of those before they got *elected* to host the Olympics. And it's also not like some cities that have hosted such things would be catapulted to the front of the line of hosting the Olympics, like Perth, the Gold Coast, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Cardiff, Kingston, Santo Domingo or Indianapolis for example. Far from it.

See, this is what amuses me about GamesBids sometimes. This is the Doctor Evil/Austin power line "we're not so different, you and I." We're both talking about how we believe others on this site see things the wrong way and it ends up with us arguing about that. How often does 1 of us make a "some here make too much of something" comment and try to clarify that. Yes, I agree with you. I assume you're saying this for the benefit of "some on here" moreso than me? :D:P

So let me return the favor and say something for the benefit of everyone else that you probably already know. Each circumstance is different. You know and I know it's unfair to make that comparison. Rio didn't get the Olympics because they hosted successful Pan Ams, but it certainly didn't hurt their cause. It's worth noting though.. Seoul was up against only 1 other city and it was a city in Japan not named Tokyo. Barcelona we all the history of. Atlanta was in a weak field of competition. Would Rio have won that 2016 vote without the benefit of the Pan Ams? Almost certainly they would have given their huge margin of victory. But in comparison to that second group of cities, most of those cities wouldn't be in the conversation to host an Olympics. Rio was pursuing that goal before they hosted the Pan Ams. So in that regard, there are some similarities to Durban. And whereas Rio was already going after the Olympics before 2007, in Durban/South Africa's case, it does seem like they might be using the CWG as a stepping stone to an Olympic bid.

Other than Paris (& perhaps maybe Berlin) who else are these "notable" European? Madrid? They've called it quits, & the same issues that plauged their 2020 bid would hamper any 2024 effort anyway. Rome? Yes, while 'notable', they've got their own issues similar to what Madrid has/had (ie weak economy). Not to mention the city is cramped, dirty & very chaotic to get around. Hamburg? Germany's Boston if anything. And then of course you got silly Baku-ku & Doha-ha. So in such a line-up, the only one I could see trumping a viable South African 2024 effort is Paris. Distant second would be Berlin. Other than that, I wouldn't vest too much in what was left.

Germany's Boston :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think I have a headache I just rolled my eyes so hard. Yes, I was referring to Paris, Berlin, and Rome. Not Madrid, not Baku, and certainly not Doha (which, last I checked, is not in Europe).

So let's get a clarification here. When you say "the only one I could see trumping a viable South African 2024 effort is Paris," does that mean you don't think Berlin could beat Durban? Or Rome? I disagree with that. I think any of those 3 cities would beat Durban (which is not to say I think that's a guarantee or that those cities would win in a landslide, in case you're going to tell me you think that's what I think). But this is one of these generalizations we'll need to see play out and get more context. Durban could wind up bidding and putting together a really attractive package while Rome is still dealing with their economy, Germany bids with their Boston (seriously, do you actually think that's a comparison, or did you just say it to try and make a point.. for the record, if Hamburg is Germany's version of any American city, it's Chicago.. that' s their sister city in the US), and Paris isn't supported. In that scenario, Durban's got a great chance. Or.. Paris puts forth a strong bid, Berlin has their act together, and Rome figures out some way to figure out their issues, and South Africa doesn't even bid.

There is a lot of middle ground between "2024 IS Durban" and "2024 IS Paris." You and I both lie somewhere in the middle. You like Durban's chances better than I do. Obviously that's predicated on them bidding in the first place. If it comes down to Paris and Durban, clearly your money at this point is on Durban. My money is on Paris. If it comes to fruition that these 2 cities are in play, a lot can and will change and make things will come more into focus. But for now, in the general sense, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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It's worth noting though.. Seoul was up against only 1 other city and it was a city in Japan not named Tokyo. Barcelona we all the history of. Atlanta was in a weak field of competition.

Yeah, I know that. But regardless of the circumstances, the point still remains that all of those went on to host successful Olympics, especially Barcelona. So the argument of not having hosted some sort of previous multi-sport event (in this case Durban) shouldn't be an automatic disqualification, like some here like to make it, bcuz the record speaks for itself. Otherwise, again let's start beating the drums for Indianapolis, Perth, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Kingston, Santo Domingo & Havana for an Olympics! :-P

So let's get a clarification here. When you say "the only one I could see trumping a viable South African 2024 effort is Paris," does that mean you don't think Berlin could beat Durban? Or Rome? I disagree with that. I think any of those 3 cities would beat Durban (which is not to say I think that's a guarantee or that those cities would win in a landslide, in case you're going to tell me you think that's what I think).

Well, did you actually read what was there? I said I could see Berlin be a distant second after Paris. But Rome? No, I don't agree with that at all. Not with their current economic crisis. I would see them as the Madrid of the 2024 race. I even see Boston doing better than Rome. If things were better in Italy right now, I would agree with you. But considering that they're not, then I don't. It speaks volumes when the Italian national government has to bail out near-bankrupt Rome so they can continue paying their bills.

Germany's Boston :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think I have a headache I just rolled my eyes so hard.

Germany bids with their Boston (seriously, do you actually think that's a comparison, or did you just say it to try and make a point.. for the record, if Hamburg is Germany's version of any American city, it's Chicago.. that' s their sister city in the US), and Paris isn't supported. In that scenario, Durban's got a great chance. Or.. Paris puts forth a strong bid, Berlin has their act together, and Rome figures out some way to figure out their issues, and South Africa doesn't even bid.

There is a lot of middle ground between "2024 IS Durban" and "2024 IS Paris." You and I both lie somewhere in the middle. You like Durban's chances better than I do. Obviously that's predicated on them bidding in the first place. If it comes down to Paris and Durban, clearly your money at this point is on Durban. My money is on Paris. If it comes to fruition that these 2 cities are in play, a lot can and will change and make things will come more into focus. But for now, in the general sense, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps you wouldn't get the headache if you weren't such a 'douche' about these things sometimes. I mean really? As if you're so innocent of the silliness that goes on around here. You know who you sound like (or as the case is now, use to sound like), don't you. And yes, I made that comparison in a relative sense since Boston is the USOC's pick for 2024. Or did you forget about that already.

Again, it was never really about "your money is on Paris & mine on Durban". This whole mud-match started with someone earlier citing that Paris "would easily" beat virtually anyone out there if they bid (which they included Durban in their list). I didn't agree with that. Then you came along & took everything outta context as you usually do when it comes to my viewpoint on South Africa. Why not take issue with their virtual coronation of Paris if such "declarations" bother you so much.

Yeah, South Africa may not even bid for 2024. But then again, neither could Paris nor Germany for that matter. Especially when some of our 'notable' German members here say that Germany is more focused on bidding for Euro 2024 anyway. So we could be going back & forth for absolutely nothing here. Go figure.

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Again, it was never really about "your money is on Paris & mine on Durban". This whole mud-match started with someone earlier citing that Paris "would easily" beat virtually anyone out there if they bid (which they included Durban in their list). I didn't agree with that. Then you came along & took everything outta context as you usually do when it comes to my viewpoint on South Africa. Why not take issue with their virtual coronation of Paris if such "declarations" bother you so much.

I was the one who said I thought a strong by Paris would win easily (including over Durban). It's just my opinion. You have your opinion, too. My god, move on.

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Yes, I know who it was. Exactly, it's my opinion. But obviously you just glossed over the whole point I was making even though you directly quoted it. Since it's anybody that you should be telling "my God. Move on." its Quaker, since he's the one that obviously can't let it go if you've been reading the same last two pages. Since you're the one who initially brought "your opinion", you're the one he should be really raking over the coals instead. Since he doesn't like declarations of any kind whatsoever. Obviously you haven't been around here long enough to know that.

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LOL.. You're posting in response to aquaman and most of the post is talking about me in the 3rd person and telling me how I should go after him. As if I'm not right here.

Yeah, I know that. But regardless of the circumstances, the point still remains that all of those went on to host successful Olympics, especially Barcelona. So the argument of not having hosted some sort of previous multi-sport event (in this case Durban) shouldn't be an automatic disqualification, like some here like to make it, bcuz the record speaks for itself. Otherwise, again let's start beating the drums for Indianapolis, Perth, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Kingston, Santo Domingo & Havana for an Olympics! :-P

Again, why are you telling me what "some here like to make it" when you and I are on the same page on this one? I realized I initially replied to a post that wasn't in response to me, but thanks again for re-posting that list of cities in case I missed it the first time.

Well, did you actually read what was there? I said I could see Berlin be a distant second after Paris. But Rome? No, I don't agree with that at all. Not with their current economic crisis. I would see them as the Madrid of the 2024 race. I even see Boston doing better than Rome. If things were better in Italy right now, I would agree with you. But considering that they're not, then I don't. It speaks volumes when the Italian national government has to bail out near-bankrupt Rome so they can continue paying their bills.

Yes I read what you said. You said "the only one I could see trumping a viable South African 2024 effort is Paris". When you say "Distant second would be Berlin", does mean Berlin could also trump South Africa? Because then Paris isn't the only one. And maybe you're right about Rome, but if you're going to talk about their economy and their situation, for what it's worth, right now they seem closer to putting forth a 2024 bid than South Africa. Granted, if Durban is in the field, it probably means that South Africa is more confident about their situation that it would seem at this point.

Oh yea, and of course you would see them as the Madrid of the 2024 race. Because it's helpful for things to be the something of something else. I saw you posted in 1 of the Almaty threads how they're similar to Rome 2004. So that makes Almaty the Rome of the 2022 race, I take it? Go ahead, now you can roll your eyes at me. :P:D:ph34r:

Perhaps you wouldn't get the headache if you weren't such a 'douche' about these things sometimes. I mean really? As if you're so innocent of the silliness that goes on around here. You know who you sound like (or as the case is now, use to sound like), don't you. And yes, I made that comparison in a relative sense since Boston is the USOC's pick for 2024. Or did you forget about that already.

Again, it was never really about "your money is on Paris & mine on Durban". This whole mud-match started with someone earlier citing that Paris "would easily" beat virtually anyone out there if they bid (which they included Durban in their list). I didn't agree with that. Then you came along & took everything outta context as you usually do when it comes to my viewpoint on South Africa. Why not take issue with their virtual coronation of Paris if such "declarations" bother you so much.

Yeah, South Africa may not even bid for 2024. But then again, neither could Paris nor Germany for that matter. Especially when some of our 'notable' German members here say that Germany is more focused on bidding for Euro 2024 anyway. So we could be going back & forth for absolutely nothing here. Go figure.

It's funny, I was actually thinking it before, but I'll actually come out and say it. It is as though AthensFan has returned and taken over your account. Although to be fair, with all these backhanded slaps, it definitely makes you sound like the FYI of the thread. Yea, now I'm being a douche. More than happy to take ownership of that.

When did this become a mud match (that's a rhetorical question, for the most part)? You and I came together in this conversation when I brought up your comment about Tokyo 2020 and the IOC's vision going forward. We disagreed on a couple of things. But as usual, it turned into a lot of "well I didn't imply that" and "how can you say that" about whatever. And you even invoked "another person" as if you're subscribing his argument to me. Yea, I said I largely agree with aquaman. I stand by that statement. But I did clarify it to the point I never used the word "easily" to describe Paris vs. Durban. And if these arguments are about "could", then what the heck are you getting so worked up about?

Contrary to your "he doesn't like declarations of any kind whatsoever" line (again, as if I'm not right here), I have no problems with hypotheticals and talking about what could happen. We're just going back and forth talking about our thoughts on 2024. Where it gets tiresome though is where we move from generalizations about cities to where we're talking about them in specific instances. If Durban bids for 2024, that's a different scenario than what the situation is right now, where they aren't likely to bid. That's when hypotheticals get muddled and you and I (and others) don't know what situation the other person is arguing because it's as though there are parameters being set that aren't known. And that's when mud matches like these, particuarly for future bids, tend to get started.

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"my god", Quaker. "Move on"! :rolleyes:

It's funny, I was actually thinking it before, but I'll actually come out and say it. It is as though AthensFan has returned and taken over your account. Although to be fair, with all these backhanded slaps, it definitely makes you sound like the FYI of the thread. Yea, now I'm being a douche. More than happy to take ownership of that.

Projecting much? Well, when one has had such good teachers at 'all these backhanded slaps', like you & him, then go figure. :-P

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