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Breaking News : Malaysia Airlines plane crashes in Ukraine


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It will be interesting to see what happens this winter. I predict some European countries will be feeling a mighty chill. Putin will not totally turn the taps off to the EU though; that would be the financial equivalent of cutting your own throat to prove a point. Despite signing a supply deal with China, Putin will be dependant on EU gas and oil profits for the foreseeable future. Russia has nothing else to offer the world apart from oil, gas and mayhem.

In the UK at least we should be ok - nearly all our gas comes from British and Norwegian offshore gas fields in the North sea, with a bit of imported LNG from the middle east. Successive British Governments have deliberately avoided any kind of reliance on the Russians for our energy needs...thank god!

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Well, already discovered thanks to leaked calls the rebels hid the black boxes and that they got orders from above. And they said Putin, specificaly, as the person who gave the order.

I think I speak for many when I say Putin should be stopped already. Screw Russia's gas. Europe should have some dignity and confront this guy who's going to provoke WWIII at this pace.


http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20140720/54412063360/kiev-grabacion-prorrusos-rusia-ocultar-pruebas.html

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I've just read how Russians treated "Cargo-200" during Chechen Wars. Soldiers' dead bodies were packed in the refrigerated wagons, and standing at the railway station for weeks. The cooling mechanism was sometimes off so the bodies turned into pulp, then the cooling was on, and off again.

I think Western media (and many people in general) are for a very shoking awakening.

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Well, already discovered thanks to leaked calls the rebels hid the black boxes and that they got orders from above. And they said Putin, specificaly, as the person who gave the order.

I think I speak for many when I say Putin should be stopped already. Screw Russia's gas. Europe should have some dignity and confront this guy who's going to provoke WWIII at this pace.

http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20140720/54412063360/kiev-grabacion-prorrusos-rusia-ocultar-pruebas.html

As already stated, I'm no fan of Putin... But I have a hard time believing he ordered this attack. Why would he do that?

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I don't think he ordered this, but the separatists clearly had his backing to do whatever they wanted in Eastern Ukraine.

This literally backfired and my guess is that while the Kremlin now tries to keep its hands clean, Putin must be seriously fuming at the separatists' incompetence. Wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later some of them were never to be heard of again.

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Its true to say that Putin is now majorly on the back foot. However, what we have learned is that he's an arch manipulator and so we have to proceed with punitive and uncomfortable sanctions to drive home a message that we (western European democracies) won't be held to ransom. Putin will concede a little in an attempt to cool things down but this will be only to buy time to be able to find new ways of forcefully promoting his expansionist agenda. With 198 Dutch among other EU citizens blown out of the sky the EU response will tell Putin how much we value the lives of our own men, women and children.

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Good work by the major credit card brands...canceling all cards of the passengers and not charging purchases and recrediting used cards after the shootdown. Disgusting looters were draining accounts after nicking wallets from the disaster zone.

Typical.

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MH17 plane crash: Ukraine rebels hand over black boxes

Rebels in eastern Ukraine have handed over two flight-data recorders from the downed MH17 plane to Malaysian experts.

A senior rebel leader signed them over to the Malaysian officials at a meeting in the city of Donetsk.

The handover came hours after the UN Security Council voted unanimously to demand immediate international access to the crash site.

The Malaysian Airlines passenger jet crashed last Thursday, killing all 298 people on board.

Western nations say there is growing evidence that flight MH17 was hit by a Russian-supplied missile fired by rebels.

Experts say the "black boxes" will reveal the exact time of the incident and the altitude and exact position of the aircraft.

They should also contain the cockpit voice recorder, which it is hoped will provide clues as to what the cause of the crash was.

The head of the Malaysian delegation told reporters that the recorders were "in good condition".

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28413467

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If Putin wants to play Cold War games we should contain him. The US should ramp up drilling to supply Europe and ween them off of GasProm.

Need a Republican president for that...

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:angry: When the USSR (Russia) Shot Down the Korean Air 747, you have no idea how close to WWIII we came, literally hours! <_< Reagan took no SH!T from them and Andropov backed down and apologised so bloody quickly!!! :wacko:

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And five days for the Soviets to admit their role, eight days to admit they knew the crash site, and eight years for them to hand over the black boxes. All the meanwhile setting up dummy naval searches to lead the US, Korean and Japanese navies astray from the real search zone. And always sticking to the script it was a spy flight.

Edited by Tunku Rols
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Putin clearly could have done more to help in the aftermath of the disaster. He could have used his influence to have the rebels/separatists stand down. He could have immediately sent military police, specialist forensic personnel, investigators and the like to the crash site, secured it and prevented the locals from tampering with the evidence as they waited for the proper authorities to arrive, first being those from Ukraine and then the OSCE and Malaysian crews.

Such a gesture and willingness to actively help would not so much be seen by the west as Russia taking control of the situation and incident, but as a sign that they want to put the conflict aside and just deal with the situation for the sake of the victims.

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It seems apparent to me that the missile was fired mistakenly by the Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine. I can't see any way in which they would deliberately shoot down an unarmed passenger jet. That would make no sense whatsoever! IMO it was an obvious reflex action against what they assumed to be another Ukrainian military plane (they have since shot down 2 more of those).

That said, the fact that the rebels have been supplied with anti-aircraft missiles at all puts most of the responsibility fair and square on Putin's government and its rebel proxies (some has to lie with the flight planners who okayed the Malaysian plane to fly over a dangerous territory that is, in effect, an active warzone)!

Putin is an unreconstructed KGB thug who is obviously out to destabilise Ukraine and any other neighbouring countries from getting too close to the West! Even now, he sees this latest atrocity as yet another opportunity to further his plan. He knows that most of Europe (with the exceptions of the UK who is not dependant on Russian gas and the obvious exception of the Netherlands) will shrink from placing too much pressure on him because he knows they are terrified of him cutting off their gas supply despite the fact that to do so would harm Russia even more! He knows he has them by the short and curlies and therefore can just bide his time and wait for the immediate storm to ride itself out! He likes to play the long game.

If even the violent deaths of more than 200 of their citizens at Russian or Russian-backed hands cannot move the EC to take any meaningful action to obtain justice for them and to try to protect their existing citizens from any future such actions by Russia or her proxies....I remain profoundly sceptical at what will! <_<

Edited by Mainad
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Uhm, the UK may not depend on Russian gas, but it also has weapons exports to Russia in significant amounts as well as of course a lot of Russian money in the Finance sector...

But what is really disgusting is this French aircraft carrier deal which Hollande still wants to let go ahead. This should be a no-brainer, even if it costs a billion EUR.

Oh and let's not forget this is not even six months old...

http://bc03.rp-online.de/polopoly_fs/russia-s-president-vladimir-putin-l-1.4024252.1392029852!httpImage/885851727.jpg_gen/derivatives/d540x303/885851727.jpg

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Cameron should have enforced the arms embargo better before he went shooting his mouth off about France. I'm really at the end of my tether with the EU right now though.... what the hell is the point of it, if it will not stand up for the most basic principles of human dignity and the security of citizens against an aggressor. I despair at Merkel's slow grinding indecision - she has no soul. I used to think she was a good European but now I just see her as a parochial German bean counter. Germany has a great economy but shows no real leadership, courage or morality. Its a bit pathetic that there is more concern about US spies than Russian missiles. If Germany / France want to placate Russia constantly they should join Putin's Eurasian Union.

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