2024 thoughts, why not Copenhagen?

[Gangwon]

It's my computer, but it's not just mine as others had problems too. I can quote from my phone, but I'd rather use my computer if I can.

[Nacre]

Regarding the size of a city and the infrastructure it is in my opinion not necessarily that a city with 4 million has better infrastructure than a city with 2 million. And may I Again say, that in a circle around Copenhagen in 80 km we are over 3 million people, with great infrastructure to and from Copenhagen...

Copenhagen has 25,000 hotel rooms. The city would likely have to double the number of hotel rooms. That's why there is a size requirement.

Copenhagen is a beautiful city, but even Amsterdam and Munich probably aren't big enough for the summer Olympics anymore.

[baron-pierreIV]

Hans,

I love Copenhagen and a favorite cousin of mine was married to a guy from Aarhus.

It's like this...in 2003, as Athens and Greece were preparing for their turn to host in 2004, they still had to find 45 workers from abroad just to tend to the special turf which was grown outside for 10 months and then brought into Olympic stadium after the Opening -- because the manpower shortage in Greece was so short at the time.

2nd example, at the recently concluded Sochi games, the show producers had to cast and rehearse the Circus scene in the OC, most of the Closing and better parts of the Paralympic ceremonies in Krasnodar because Sochi could NOT afford them the right demographics needed for the ceremonies.

If Athens and Greece had populations of 3.5 million and 10.5 million respectively going into 2004, how would Copenhagen and Denmark cope with the same labor demands today? Can a small country like Denmark really handle these large dislocations of people just to accommodate the extraordinary demands of a 21st century Olympic Games? Would you really like Denmark (or any smaller,peaceful country) to be overrun with all those overstaying temporary workers after the Games once they have tasted what a wonderful society you have?

Be careful of what you wish for.

[ofan]

Hans,

I love Copenhagen and a favorite cousin of mine was married to a guy from Aarhus.

It's like this...in 2003, as Athens and Greece were preparing for their turn to host in 2004, they still had to find 45 workers from abroad just to tend to the special turf which was grown outside for 10 months and then brought into Olympic stadium after the Opening -- because the manpower shortage in Greece was so short at the time.

2nd example, at the recently concluded Sochi games, the show producers had to cast and rehearse the Circus scene in the OC, most of the Closing and better parts of the Paralympic ceremonies in Krasnodar because Sochi could NOT afford them the right demographics needed for the ceremonies.

If Athens and Greece had populations of 3.5 million and 10.5 million respectively going into 2004, how would Copenhagen and Denmark cope with the same labor demands today? Can a small country like Denmark really handle these large dislocations of people just to accommodate the extraordinary demands of a 21st century Olympic Games? Would you really like Denmark (or any smaller,peaceful country) to be overrun with all those overstaying temporary workers after the Games once they have tasted what a wonderful society you have?

Be careful of what you wish for.

For the love of God Baron, there is more to the f*cking Olympics than just the ceremonies.

[baron-pierreIV]

For the love of God Baron, there is more to the f*cking Olympics than just the ceremonies.

Is there? REALLY? For God's sakes, can't u tell it's just AN EXAMPLE???? Ever heard of just an example???

[Hansfromdenmark]

I can understand that you all think that the size is very very important, due to the hotel rooms and venues after the games. I think we could manage it just as well and have enough rooms with temporary hotelships, and private housing in a organized way. Perhaps your right, and I´m wrong. Perhaps the time will show, but I´m afraid we never get the chance to prove it.

Regarding the "turf" on the Olympic stadium in Greece? Do you by that meen the grass? And howcome can you mention that Athens had to import 45 workers? I cant see 45 workers at a problem at all. But perhaps i dont understand what you mean. Regarding the grass, Denmark is in top of the World, and it is a Danish Company that dilivered the grass for the World championschip in football in 2010 and here in 2014. Denmark is well known for our good farming skills in growing grass-seeds. But perhaps that is not what your talking about, and I misunderstood you.

But if the games has grown to big for many cities and there are still new sports (that I saw being discussed elswhere on this forum), i have 2 ideas that could make the games both cheaper and bigger at the same time. But perhaps some of the charming about the games, and that we love will miss.

One solution could be to extend the games by one week, so that the games are 23 days in stead of 16 days. That could give better options to use the same arenas for different sports, and therefor fewer big indoor arenas for an example, if the games were more spread out, but of course it could also mean that not much of the athletes will stay trough out the Whole games. And those which are in play for the 3. week, may very well not be in the opening and miss that. It´s perhaps not the best idea, but stil I think it is a possibility It would also be easier to follow all the sports, if it was more spread out. But still be pretty compact i think

The other idea is even more controversial. What if we split the summer games up in two. And then had it every second year. But with different sports. So the Olympic games are still every forth year for athletics, basketball and so on. Im just afraid it will be an A and a B game, where that year when Athletics is a part would be considered as the real games. Perhaps it is hard to understand what I mean, so i try to list up what I mean.

One games could be with the following sports:
Athletics
Basketball
Wrestling
Football
Fencing
Hockey
Horseriding
Tennis
Beach Volleyball
Volleyball
Slalom Kajak
Water Polo
Taekwondo

And the other games could be
Swimming (everything but Water Polo)
Gymnastics
Weightlifting
Judo
Boxing
Handball
Badminton
Table Tennis
Cycling (road, track, BMX, mountainbike)
Rowing
Canoe (flatwater)
Sailing
Shooting
Triathlon

It could perhaps then make room for Beach soccer, squash and a few more sports also. So the first list could be in 2028, 2032, 2036 and so on, and the second list could be in 2026, 2030, 2034 and so on.

I´m aware of there then only would be 2 years between 2024 and 2026 for those sports, but I don´t think it would be fair to wait 6 years for those events.

This could open up for more cities to bid for the games. And they get to "choose" what of the games they would be matching there country and where they are best at. The list of events had i not gone to much thinking about and perhaps should be divided different. But for Denmark the second one would be perfect. Denmark is good in swimming, handball, badminton, sailing, cycling, rowing and almost nothing worth in athletics, basketball and o on. But that of course will be different for every applicant city/country, and my list maybe what events i prefere in Denmark in games no 2. But I think that swimming and athletics are the 2 main events and should be splitted up to make both games big at least.

Perhaps it is controversial, but on the other hand I like the idea in some how, but on the other hand it perhaps will be more boring with that much smaller. There will still be many events at the same time, but the size would be smaller and more acceptable for many cities, and easier to manage. Im personally splidded by this idea.

What do you people think?

Kindly regards
Hans

[baron-pierreIV]

Regarding the "turf" on the Olympic stadium in Greece? Do you by that meen the grass? And howcome can you mention that Athens had to import 45 workers? I cant see 45 workers at a problem at all. But perhaps i dont understand what you mean. Regarding the grass, Denmark is in top of the World, and it is a Danish Company that dilivered the grass for the World championschip in football in 2010 and here in 2014. Denmark is well known for our good farming skills in growing grass-seeds. But perhaps that is not what your talking about, and I misunderstood you.

Hans, don't get bogged down by details ...like someone else. I just mentioned it as an 'example' of labor shortages that are likely to happen in a big mega-event like an Olympics. Don't think everyone will stick around for an Olympics and lend their support. There will always be a certain percentage who don't like it and you can't count on their support.

But just think about it. The IOC has been at this for almost 120 years now. I think they sort of know what it takes to stage their massive show(s).

My 2 cents: easier to go with the flow instead of re-inventing the wheel. There are reasons for the higher numbers needed.

Edited June 21, 2014 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

What actually has to be taken into account here, is that not every city out there is destined to host the Olympic Games. If we're gonna start seriously altering the Games themselves in order to "open up" the possibility for other cities, then that starts to dilute what the Olympic Games were suppose to be in the first place.

I think outta those ideas that were outlined, the one that could be plausible is the one extending the Games by a week. I've always thought that wouldn't it be great if the Olympics were a week longer. The WC lasts a full month. So why not, especially if it would indeed cut costs in unnecessary spending. But the other suggestions are too drastic & Games altering.

[gromit]

Whilst Copenhagen has a number of supposed weaknesses they can actually be also be perceived as strengths

1. It is a capital city which is something the IOC like

2. Whilst lacking some infrastructure, the Danes have proven with the Oresund Bridge, the Fixed Belt Link and all likelihood the Fehrmann Tunnel link, major projects costing billions are brought in, on time and under budget

3. Denmark is one of the least corrupt countries in the world - officially

4. As a city it has metro population of just under 2million but include the Oresund region and you double it. And when workers in Copenhagen can easily commute from home in Malmo, clearly it is easy to get around. The Fehrmann link, scheduled to open in 2021 will ease access from Northern Germany.

5. It is the IOC - not USOC and they ask for a main stadium of 60,000 seats+. Nice to have more for the ceremonies but also embarrassing if you only have a few thousand for R1 of qualifying

and it is not the USA. Everyone likes the Danes, whilst for some IOC members it will be a case of voting for anyone but

[baron-pierreIV]

I think outta those ideas that were outlined, the one that could be plausible is the one extending the Games by a week. I've always thought that wouldn't it be great if the Olympics were a week longer. The WC lasts a full month. So why not, especially if it would indeed cut costs in unnecessary spending. But the other suggestions are too drastic & Games altering.

Extending the Summer Games by one week to double up on, as Hans suggested, venues might be worth looking into. The main drawback with that is the "party" is diluted. There is no need for those sports which have finished to hang around for another week just to be present at the CC. You would also have to extend the 'partying' of the IOC members and sponsors for another week. All security forces would have to keep another 24/7 workweek -- giving would-be troublemakers more time to cause their mayhem. And then everyone has to reassemble again for the Paralympics in another 2.5 weeks. Not doable.

The World Cup comparison is NOT valid because as the football tournament progresses, it also shrinks. So less cities, less venues, less personal are involved until it's just down to the final one or 2 cities. So World Cup and Olympics are apples and oranges.

The thing is -- if smaller cities like Copenhagen can qualify -- is to REDUCE the # of sports to 17 and the number of athletes to like 7,500. That's really the only way mid-sized quality cities can hope to stage Games like these. But then again, the same small-sized cities should also BE realistic about their dreams. They shouldn't take on more than they can handle. Look at Athens 2004.

Edited June 21, 2014 by baron-pierreIV

[Hansfromdenmark]

You have many good points here! I really can´t see why hotels in other cities not could be used. Even in Berlin for that matter. You can travel in plane for one hour... And Again only 10-20 minutes after landing bee at the Olympic village and surroundings. But perhaps it is not normal for people in other countries to pendle 2 hours a day to come to Work? In Denmark we have many who travel everyday to and from Work in Copenhagen and live in Odense, Malmø, Helsingborg, Lund, And of course the whoule Island "Sealand".


Other than that i agree that dividing the games up in 2 games, will be much to dramatic. And yes, the World Champ. in football last a month. Why could the Olympic games not last 3 weeks? It would actually also be even more viewers on tv to the smaller sports, if the tv-channels has fewer option round the clock. I dont know how other countries cover it, but in Denmark we of course follow the danes, and specially in the first week there often are many things that is at the same time, and i would personally love if it lastet 3 weeks, so it would be easier to follow it all. And when it is the Olympic I watch it all, and love it, regarding if the sport it self is nothing i would Watch rest of the year.

But if last 3 weeks, the question is how much does it cost, and much could be saved. There then have to be security at high level a week longer and will increase those expensives. And how many venues can actually be saved? I have not tried to make an concrete plan, but with a qualified guess it is especially in door arenas which perhaps can be 3 fewer. And regarding it would cost more Money in security, it is hard to know if it really would help the total economy. But of course, the tourist will also be there for a longer period and generate more income. It is hard to know what there is right and wrong.

Kindly regards
Hans

[baron-pierreIV]

Hans, some people here have worked some of the Games. People working the Games are putting in 12-16 hour days. It REALLY is not possible to sustain that pace past 17 days. Security and the IOC would not go for a prolonged schedule past 17 days.

[Hansfromdenmark]

Yes i did not say it was 2 good ideas but just some ideas that i would bring up. But to reduce the games to 17 sports, that brings me back to why not 2 games with 17 sports each? If you still want to reduce the games so much, you mide as well make 2 games. It would be better than reducing it so drastic.

[Roger87]

Hans, your ideas and propositions are nice but unfortunally, there aren't realistics in our current world for political, factical, finantial and media reasons.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Maybe Copenhagen could try its hand at the European Games first - less high-profile, but I think it'd be an amazing host!

[Roger87]

Maybe Copenhagen could try its hand at the European Games first - less high-profile, but I think it'd be an amazing host!

Yep, Budapest and Copenhagen can try the European Games.

[Hansfromdenmark]

I would love European Games to Copenhagen. Only big issue as I see it is athletic We simple don´t have an athletic stadium to use at all... In Copenhagen i guess the biggest we have are for 7000 and I think some of that is not seatings... So that one stadium is my biggest concern, and if Athletic only uses it for 2 days and a youth team competition, it is stupid to build another big stadium. Perhaps a combined bid with Malmo could do it. They have a athletic stadium for roundly 25.000 and I believe that could be good enough for athletic if its only the youth. The opening and closing ceremony could be held at our national footbalstadium Parken with 40.000 capacity.

But its very interesting how the European Games develope. I am very positive surprised with the first one from Baku. And i feel by the Danish athletes that they see it as a small Olympic games, and the entusiasm when they won was clearly, it really ment something for them to win! I hope it could develope to something good with these European Games.