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And what do we know about Boston and DC and San Francisco? We've seen Boston progress along, but they still feel like they're in the exploratory stages. DC and SF are total mysteries. With Dallas, we know precisely who their leader was and we have a pretty good baseline on what their vision was. That's a lot more information than we have from the other cities. It's certainly not the extensive plan we saw from Los Angeles, but until late April, we didn't know anything about them either.

You're right, we don't know why Dallas didn't make the cut. Could be any number of reasons. So yes, that information and that part of the puzzle is lacking and for anyone to guess would be speculating, even though many of us seem to have theories. But we still have a pretty decent idea of what Dallas proposed. For whatever reason(s), the USOC simply wasn't interested.

You must know something about Dallas I don't. Apart from Matt Wood and a couple venue locations, I know nothing about their overall vision.

As I just said, we don't know much about any of the cities. That's neither here nor there. How much Gamesbids members know about these cities' plans has absolutely no bearing on the USOC's decisions.

We are basically in the dark and we're wasting our lives arguing about what shapes might be hiding in the shadows. It's pointless.

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You must know something about Dallas I don't. Apart from Matt Wood and a couple venue locations, I know nothing about their overall vision.

As I just said, we don't know much about any of the cities. That's neither here nor there. How much Gamesbids members know about these cities' plans has absolutely no bearing on the USOC's decisions.

We are basically in the dark and we're wasting our lives arguing about what shapes might be hiding in the shadows. It's pointless.

But that's the thing.. we KNOW Matt Wood was the leader of their bid. We KNOW they had a concept centered around Fair Park. These aren't just reasonable assumptions, they are known quantities. Is it as much as we've seen from LA or even San Diego? Obviously not. But is it a lot more than we know about 3 of the 4 cities who made the cut? Absolutely it is.

Again, I'm not talking about the reasons of why Dallas wasn't selected or that the other cities were. We do have a pretty good idea of what they were thinking though, especially relative to the other cities. You're right, we don't know exactly what they did or didn't propose to the USOC. Maybe they didn't propose anything. I don't think it's about proposals at this point because I'm betting at least 1 city of the 4 has very little to propose at this point. But the USOC wants to see what they can produce. Apparently they aren't interested in what Dallas might produce for whatever reason.

And yes Athens, this forum is a giant waste of all of our time. Yet, you're here with all the rest of us talking about it. What shapes might be hiding in the shadows? LOL

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No, you didn't. Bull did. I was responding to him in my original post. Since you went and took part of one sentence totally out of context, I explained. Amazingly, not everything I write is targeted at you. Once again, if you would READ, you might pick this up.

Really? To quote you exactly, you said "FYI, please READ", in response to one of my post. So maybe if anyone needs to "read" here, it's you.

FYI, "praiseful" is not a word.

You sure about that. Cuz dictionary.com says it's a word. Or are you not 'targeting this' at me again.

FYI, "praiseful" is not a word. Saying someone is "making nice" is not praise. In this case it is a fact that the USOC graciously saluted the merits of the cities they eliminated from consideration. It was common courtesy. You seem to think that because the USOC didn't explain why the cities were cut they are hiding something. How would you like it if you applied for a job, didn't get it and the employer publicly explained all of the ways you fell short so that everyone had a clear understanding of why you weren't chosen? You just don't do that. Ever. Not in a public forum. The USOC didn't do anything praiseworthy. They just showed common courtesy.

You sure about that. Cuz dictionary.com says it's a word. Or are you not 'targeting this' at me again. I never said that USOC should totally disclose their reasons or that their hiding something. As a matter of fact, they didn't have to say anything. I just find their very praiseful verbage quite awkward after having cut such qualifying applicants. When they coulda just merely thanked both cities for their interest & left it at that. And what a weird analogy, anyway. It's not like the IOC doesn't list the shortcomings of vying cities in their evaluations. The Olympics are not a "secret" affair.

Maybe Dallas didn't offer big enough bribes.

But I thought that "everything was 'bigger' in Texas". :P

And yes Athens, this forum is a giant waste of all of our time. Yet, you're here with all the rest of us talking about it. What shapes might be hiding in the shadows? LOL

Exactly! Only their "we don't knows" are worth exploring. :rolleyes:

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But that's the thing.. we KNOW Matt Wood was the leader of their bid. We KNOW they had a concept centered around Fair Park. These aren't just reasonable assumptions, they are known quantities. Is it as much as we've seen from LA or even San Diego? Obviously not. But is it a lot more than we know about 3 of the 4 cities who made the cut? Absolutely it is.

Again, I'm not talking about the reasons of why Dallas wasn't selected or that the other cities were. We do have a pretty good idea of what they were thinking though, especially relative to the other cities. You're right, we don't know exactly what they did or didn't propose to the USOC. Maybe they didn't propose anything. I don't think it's about proposals at this point because I'm betting at least 1 city of the 4 has very little to propose at this point. But the USOC wants to see what they can produce. Apparently they aren't interested in what Dallas might produce for whatever reason.

And yes Athens, this forum is a giant waste of all of our time. Yet, you're here with all the rest of us talking about it. What shapes might be hiding in the shadows? LOL

There you go polarizing things again.

Extending the debate on why some cities were cut and others were not is pointless without more information. I'm done.

If you think it's valuable to say we know less about some cities plans than Dallas, ok. Knock yourself out. I think that's pretty self-evident.

The whole forum is not pointless, but this line of discussion is.

And incidentally, I did use the word "we" so don't act like I'm somehow setting myself apart.

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Really? To quote you exactly, you said "FYI, please READ", in response to one of my post. So maybe if anyone needs to "read" here, it's you.

You sure about that. Cuz dictionary.com says it's a word. Or are you not 'targeting this' at me again.

You sure about that. Cuz dictionary.com says it's a word. Or are you not 'targeting this' at me again. I never said that USOC should totally disclose their reasons or that their hiding something. As a matter of fact, they didn't have to say anything. I just find their very praiseful verbage quite awkward after having cut such qualifying applicants. When they coulda just merely thanked both cities for their interest & left it at that. And what a weird analogy, anyway. It's not like the IOC doesn't list the shortcomings of vying cities in their evaluations. The Olympics are not a "secret" affair.

But I thought that "everything was 'bigger' in Texas". :P

Exactly! Only their "we don't knows" are worth exploring. :rolleyes:

So ridiculous.

"praiseful" is archaic. It wouldn't be acceptable in journalism, business or academia. But hey, if that's how you roll, have fun.

Actually, my point was the exact opposite: it's fruitless to explore the "we don't knows," as you so articulately put it.

I know you get off on arguing FYI, but I'm not going to feed that feisty appetite of yours. Respond how you will. I won't write back. Adios.

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^Barf. Yet another one of your "sneering", condescending posts. You claim that we're all "in the dark" & that we're "wasting our lives" arguing over what might be hiding in the shadows. Yet here you are, trying to shove all of YOUR "we don't knows" down our throats. And quite frankly, if Gamesbids takes up that much of your life, then you really need to get out more. Cuz this really isn't such a be-all, end-all type of thing here.

And ROTFLMFAO!! I get off on arguing? Do you ever read your own posts?! Such total hypocrisy on your part, as usual. If I'm "fiesty", then what does that make you. You only render these discussions "pointless" when it's very clear that others aren't going to buy into your rhetoric. That doesn't mean that the rest of us are wrong & you automatically right. That doesn't make for a very pleasant debate, since I know you 'get off' on that type of stuff. But, yeah. Ciao. Since you've turned yet another thread into personal jabs. "So ridiculous".

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There you go polarizing things again.

Extending the debate on why some cities were cut and others were not is pointless without more information. I'm done.

If you think it's valuable to say we know less about some cities plans than Dallas, ok. Knock yourself out. I think that's pretty self-evident.

The whole forum is not pointless, but this line of discussion is.

And incidentally, I did use the word "we" so don't act like I'm somehow setting myself apart.

I'm polarizing? You're not even extending the debate. You're just trying to suppress the debate (as usual) because it doesn't meet your lofty standard in regards to the amount of information or "evidence." This place isn't a court room, Nor is it "journalism, business or academia." If you think the line of discussion is pointless, then don't participate. If the rest of us do want to discuss a topic, even based on speculation, guesswork, and limited information.. stop telling us we shouldn't be talking about it. I do find it funny though that where the rest of us offer up reasons why Dallas might have been eliminated from the list, your response is that you "threw a couple random ideas out there as a way of demonstrating how much we don't know and the range of possible explanations." So in other words, you did exactly what the rest of us were doing and then telling us it's pointless. [sarcasm]Yea, that makes a lot of sense. And not condescending at all.[/sarcasm]

On many an occasion, this forum is about speculation and conjecture and guesswork. You need to not be so taken aback every time that happens. Not to speak for FYI but since he and I seem to agree on this point (you can save the Bobbsey Twins comment), we don't get off on arguing with you. This is our response to you attitude here when you start bitching and moaning about what people are talking about because you seem oblivious to how people perceive you here and how annoying it is for the rest of us. Put us all on ignore if that makes it easier. Either way, get over it.

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While I'd like to try and reason with everyone about ditching- or resolving- the arguments about debating, maybe I need to end this by addressing the elephant in the room.

On one hand, I simply disagree with Athens; the numbers game is important because this isn't normal times for either the IOC or the USOC. If anything, it's important for any country to show the maximum possible support for the Olympics. (It doesn't mean I have to win the argument. Of course, out of principle, maybe I should misspell something. :D )

OTOH... I stayed with my parents in a small town outside Atlanta (really, outside Athens) during the 1996 Olympics. We walk into the local Dairy Queen for a quick bite. There's six employees... separated by race. There was no way to spin that this was a comfortable feeling. Where Dallas is similar to Atlanta is the Old South problem. Since you're happening to host the world for a couple weeks, better projection might be required. Dallas might be a little better than that (my last visit there, it was obvious there that it's still inner city vs white suburbs)... but social readiness is more required than even we're probably comfortable addressing.

California has its issues, but it scores better. Heck, Boston has known issues, but it tries. I know Washington is south of the Mason-Dixon Line, and I know staying in rural Maryland a couple nights reminded me of that... but it also has to represent a fair number of interests in its day-to-day work. My wife would have certainly had a problem with Dallas that she won't for the other cities... except there's a reason she left Fresno, and the Washington climate is a bit too similar.

That doesn't mean Atlanta was a complete mistake... sometimes you have to try, take a stand (I think of what Sydney tried to do, for instance)... but this may not be the time to go on one of those adventures. I still think the numbers are important, however.

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I have to disagree about the racial angle (not to get things even more heated). Not to dispute your story from 1996, but thats 18 years ago now, will have been 28 years by 2024. And the racial issues in the south these days pale in comparison to various social concerns that other winning Olympic bids have dealt with (and think of some World Cup hosts, if we want to expand out a bit more).

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Nice to sit back and read all the barbs again being exchanged.

Am here in the middle of my trip and am staying at my cousin's condo in Chicago. MIGOD, if only 2016 happened for Chicago, and my cuz still had this place, her condo is right in-between Soldier's Field and the McCormick Convention Center. Fantastic location for ANY event. Am off to the Chicago Arts Institute in a little while! Don't stop fighting... ;) C ya latah!! :lol:

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Seems like that international image is what killed them.

So I guess that's not news to anyone here.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm guessing that the USOC purely based this one on international image. From the looks of San Diego had a nice plan as I'm sure Dallas had as well, but when push comes to shove these cities lack international image and broader culture.

If we look at the cities that made the cut they all have an exciting and marketable culture. They have historical sites and icons that come games time would be exploited properly. In addition, and something that excites me, is that they seem to have good plans. Now they just need to get their ducks in a row and I could see this being a very interesting domestic race.

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So if going by "Good Looks", then LA and Boston win a tie?

More so international recognition and culture. LA has some great spots and I'm not going to even go into their setting and their beautiful culture that would welcome the games. Boston is the same in many regards, they have some beautiful spots and a nice international recognition. Both cities would host the games in their own way, but they have the international reputation that Dallas and SD lacked.

The point I'm trying to make is that the USOC's decision seems to be based more on the electability for each city.

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Out in the rest of the world that most Americans wouldn't know about...Name a major US city and its either LA or NY, then say name another, its usually Chicago, Washington, SF or Dallas in first instant.

Get us to name the American Olympic host cities and LA is always first.

Dallas has a famous/infamous reputation. The home of JR Ewing, Everything Texas, and of course THAT November day in 1963. There is also the residue of the GWB era.

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Out in the rest of the world that most Americans wouldn't know about...Name a major US city and its either LA or NY, then say name another, its usually Chicago, Washington, SF or Dallas in first instant.

Get us to name the American Olympic host cities and LA is always first.

Dallas has a famous/infamous reputation. The home of JR Ewing, Everything Texas, and of course THAT November day in 1963. There is also the residue of the GWB era.

Still did not help them.

Sure, Dallas is known, but those things people know about are not positive. Out of all of the cities you mention I imagine only positive attributes each city has. As a proud Southerner I can not say the same for Dallas.

Dallas is a tacky city, it's one that I would not want the games to go to. It's a city with that Texas entitlement attitude. I don't like them no mater who the hell was shot there.

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Still did not help them.

Sure, Dallas is known, but those things people know about are not positive. Out of all of the cities you mention I imagine only positive attributes each city has. As a proud Southerner I can not say the same for Dallas.

Dallas is a tacky city, it's one that I would not want the games to go to. It's a city with that Texas entitlement attitude. I don't like them no mater who the hell was shot there.

What ever happened to Houston?...This would be a choice city for Texas, of course seen as more diverse and unbelievably the pulling power of Destinys Child and Beyonce. Like most kids growing up, Texas was it's own culture, cowboys, cattle, ten gallon hats, oil, desert cactuses, and massive steaks! Who doesn't, apart from vegos, like visiting a Texas themed steakhouse!

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What ever happened to Houston?...This would be a choice city for Texas, of course seen as more diverse and unbelievably the pulling power of Destinys Child and Beyonce.

Well, weather is a problem for one thing. Houston's climate is similar to Hong Kong.

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Not this time around. But Houston was interested to bid for both 2012 & 2016. And both times the USOC said thanks, but no thanks. So now Dallas has also been shown the door early, twice, by the USOC. Obviously the USOC has no interest in either city.

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