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I really don't understand why you are discounting Paris' chances when, if you got a handle on this Olympic host-prognosticating game, all the major signposts are right there -- and I even believe the French know they shouldn't f*ck up big-time on this round.

Never discounted Paris's chances sir! Re-read the forum history my arguments all state my opinion that the race will be a bit more even now that LA is in it. My arguments have all been about why LA is actually a strong contender never did I say Paris was a bad one. really look at what was written.

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Alex - this is bullying. Criticising someone's conduct by attempting to shame them will only make you look small.

Dang. I thought he had me on ignore!

I'm polarizing? You're not even extending the debate. You're just trying to suppress the debate (as usual) because it doesn't meet your lofty standard in regards to the amount of information or "evi

Never discounted Paris's chances sir! Re-read the forum history my arguments all state my opinion that the race will be a bit more even now that LA is in it. My arguments have all been about why LA is actually a strong contender never did I say Paris was a bad one. really look at what was written.

OK, sorry. You know how these threads meander and go off-course.

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Never discounted Paris's chances sir!

But yet that IS precisely what you're doing! So we don't have to "reread" anything, because it's all there in black-&-white. You may be "arguing" & stating your "opinion" about why Los Angeles is a "strong contender", but you're doing so by undermining Paris' chances with all of your selective rhetoric that the majority of us have been able to effectively thwart off. And then that's when you go off on a tangent by erroneously misguiding your posts that you've done nothing of the kind. That's absurd.

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But yet that IS precisely what you're doing! So we don't have to "reread" anything, because it's all there in black-&-white. You may be "arguing" & stating your "opinion" about why Los Angeles is a "strong contender", but you're doing so by undermining Paris' chances with all of your selective rhetoric that the majority of us have been able to effectively thwart off. And then that's when you go off on a tangent by erroneously misguiding your posts that you've done nothing of the kind. That's absurd.

How have I ever done that FYI? When had I said anything negative about Paris or it's chances? I haven't even said Los Angeles is a better city or better than Paris in anyway! I haven't said Paris' plans were worse or Paris Venues are dilapidated or they need to spend money on x y or z.

How does saying LA is a stronger candidate than most people give it credit for threaten Paris as a candidate or even insult it?

If I came on this board and opened with Paris is a horrible city that lost so many bids and I don't understand why it's the front runner then I would understand what you're talking about. but all I said was I am happy and excited LA is the US city and now we have a real race and then all of a sudden the debate started. And Debate is good but don't start trying to make people your mortal enemy because they support a different city. I never said anything derogatory to Paris' bid but you got all butt hurt because heaven's forbid someone roots for another city.

Relax

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Madrid and Barcelona are totally different cities geographically and culturally, so sure it's in the same country but it's not the same feeling as far as games go. And they're both alpha cities in Spain that have large cultural and economical significance to the country, this isn't like when Seville and even Leipzig tried to bid for the Olympics. I think if the Spanish economy was showing actual signs of improvement and the unemployment rate was falling and in the lower teens, then they would have stood a better chance of getting 2020 over Tokyo.

In a factical way, yep both Madrid and Barcelona are different cities, but like Montreal and Toronto, both cities are located in the same country (Spain-Canada). Unless Catalonia gets the independence, Barcelona 1992 will still be the "Spanish Olympics" representating all the country. Politically-wise, both are on the same field. So yep, Barcelona had a big effect in Madrid's aspirations.

I think if the Spanish economy was showing actual signs of improvement and the unemployment rate was falling and in the lower teens, then they would have stood a better chance of getting 2020 over Tokyo.

Nah, counting out the economic aspect, Madrid 2020 has big dissadvantages since the beginning:

a. Barcelona 1992. And sorry but Spain isn't USA. When El Mundo and Television Española pay the same number like NBC and Coca Cola, maybe they can reclaim an "Atlanta". Again, unless Catalonia gets the independence, these were the "Olympics of Spain".

b. Rajoy's constant diplomatic misteps. Not only he alignated most of Latin American countries during his government with many controversial issues, but also he was stupid enough to start a new attack for Gibraltar, when 1/3 of the IOC voting is coming from the Commonwealth countries. At this moment, Spain is in lowest levels of international respect around the world

c. The Fuentes doping scandal.

d. European opposition for 2024.

So yep, Madrid 2020 doesn't have a really good chance either.

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How have I ever done that FYI? When had I said anything negative about Paris or it's chances? I haven't even said Los Angeles is a better city or better than Paris in anyway! I haven't said Paris' plans were worse or Paris Venues are dilapidated or they need to spend money on x y or z.

How does saying LA is a stronger candidate than most people give it credit for threaten Paris as a candidate or even insult it?

I NEVER said that you "insulted" or claim that Paris was a "bad" city. I said that you undermine & try to discredit Paris with your selective arguments all so you can put Los Angeles on an Olympic pedestal. So please be able decipher the difference.

For starters, you couldn't even get the basic facts right about Paris' bid history. Citing that the last time Paris bid was "in 1997, pre 9/11, pre global crisis, pre Eurozone crisis" , followed by "the USOC at least has had practice in this new era of bidding". Which that in itself is totally false since Paris has indeed bid TWICE already 'in this new era', & which then totally negates this entire argument that you were trying to make.

You also were citing Bach's words as if somehow they were Holy Sacred in favor of L.A. But needless to say (or is it), he's a diplomat & as you also like to point out, a "business" man. Therefore, all he's doing is trying to protect his organization of any unpleasant surprises (hello 2022 bid race that was a total farce), by trying to get as many cities onboard for the 2024 race. It doesn't really mean that it's L.A.'s on a silver platter then. Not to mention that Bach doesn't even get to vote TBW (unless there was a tie in a final ballot), & then there's the other 100+ fastidious members that do get to vote that won't necessarily adhere to whatever Bach's wishes might or might not be (since he's no Samaranh), since they all have their own hidden agendas & preferences. So there again, reading too much into what really more than likely might not be there.

You talk about the "money" aspect of things, but then again, what makes you think that a Paris Olymopics wouldn't make any money. Again, London was a VERY money-making *European* Olympics. So there again, I think you're taking that aspect & magnifying it to your convienence. NBC's muti-billion $$ deal, for example, is until 2032. So the U.S. could still get any one of those Games, but it doesn't necessarily have to be 2024.

You've also said that "Paris might not be as credible & as strong as you think". What are you basing this on, really. Because that couldn't be further from the truth. It's not like the French are total newcomers to this game. They've been around the block a few times already & as recent as 2005 for the 2012 Olympics. We could say the same for L.A. really, so if anything, we could say it's a wash for arguments sake.

And Debate is good but don't start trying to make people your mortal enemy because they support a different city. I never said anything derogatory to Paris' bid but you got all butt hurt because heaven's forbid someone roots for another city.

Lmfao!! :-D Projecting much?! You're the one that is defending L.A. like it's the last time the U.S. would ever bid for a Games & lashing out at anyone who 'dares' opposes your "opinion". I've also never said anything derogatory about Los Angeles. On the contrary, I acknowledge that Los Angeles is a contender, which is much more than what I can say about you towards Paris.

In case you haven't noticed, you're in the minority here on these 'debating' boards on this topic. So if anyone is "butt hurt" it must be you if gotta make this all personal now & trying to make me out as some sort of villain & you some poor little helpless victim. So if that's your tactic now, I'm not interested.

In a factical way, yep both Madrid and Barcelona are different cities, but like Montreal and Toronto, both cities are located in the same country (Spain-Canada). Unless Catalonia gets the independence, Barcelona 1992 will still be the "Spanish Olympics" representating all the country. Politically-wise, both are on the same field. So yep, Barcelona had a big effect in Madrid's aspirations.

Exactly.

I think if the Spanish economy was showing actual signs of improvement and the unemployment rate was falling and in the lower teens, then they would have stood a better chance of getting 2020 over Tokyo.

Nah, counting out the economic aspect, Madrid 2020 has big dissadvantages since the beginning:

a. Barcelona 1992. And sorry but Spain isn't USA. When El Mundo and Television Española pay the same number like NBC and Coca Cola, maybe they can reclaim an "Atlanta". Again, unless Catalonia gets the independence, these were the "Olympics of Spain".

b. Rajoy's constant diplomatic misteps. Not only he alignated most of Latin American countries during his government with many controversial issues, but also he was stupid enough to start a new attack for Gibraltar, when 1/3 of the IOC voting is coming from the Commonwealth countries. At this moment, Spain is in lowest levels of international respect around the world

c. The Fuentes doping scandal.

d. European opposition for 2024.

So yep, Madrid 2020 doesn't have a really good chance either.

Agree here, too.

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After reading your above post FYI I see that you are a selective reader and basically pulled parts out of my previous posts to make it seem like I was hostile towards Paris. Yes I said those things you quoted but you have completely taken the context out of the points to make them seem more aggressive. Kudos to you on that but after reading your above post I realize it makes no sense continuing on this exchange with you if context is lost in discussion.

Quite frankly Baron, Quaker, BR2028 were all able to disagree with me in a gentlemanly fashion articulating excellent points to which even I admitted their value. You for some reason are seeing a lot more venom coming from my posts than there actually is.

I stand by my thoughts and theories on LA but this exchange between you and I has become pointless.

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Don't bring me into this pissing match.

Also, JO2024, Madrid was in a completely different position. For starters, their first bid was way back in the '60s and for 1972 during the fascist government so that was a nogo from the start. In their second attempt, they ran for a games that would be held only ten years after Barcelona AND they were up against some of the biggest, wealthiest, and most powerful cities and nations in the world. France, the UK, The USA, and Russia all submitted bids that featured their alpha cities. Of course Madrid is going to loose. In 2009, their third attempt they came in at second place primarily because of sympathy following Samaranches death. Again they did loose, but came in at second ahead of a 'greedy' US that from the races start probably had the best chance of winning based on the fact that Europe and Asia had both hosted in 2008, 2004, and 2012. Chicago's 2016 bid was a very wise and calculated bid by the USOC and not a 'greedy' try against those poor olympicless Europeans. In 2013, Madrid made a stupid decision to bid based on their 'strong' performance in 2005 and 2009. Madrid lost because of all the things Roger87 said. Even if Spain bid for 2024 they would loose.

Paris is in a much better position for getting the games then they have ever been, and has a much better chance than Paris.

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Well, the "full" letter(s) certainly helps, (however you can leave out the snarky attitude). The GB's newswire section clearly identified how Paris, Rome & Hamburg sent their letters by their respective NOC's. The only thing that was there about Los Angeles was that city officials & others "traveled" to Lausaunne, but no other clarification was there other than that. Not everyone has the time to surf other channels for Olympic-related tidbits like clearly some other people do. :rolleyes: GB's is enough for me to do that with.

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Well, the "full" letter(s) certainly helps, (however you can leave out the snarky attitude). The GB's newswire section clearly identified how Paris, Rome & Hamburg sent their letters by their respective NOC's. The only thing that was there about Los Angeles was that city officials & others "traveled" to Lausaunne, but no other clarification was there other than that. Not everyone has the time to surf other channels for Olympic-related tidbits like clearly some other people do. :rolleyes: GB's is enough for me to do that with.

A simple Google is all it took. Not too difficult.

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