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I don't think that the problem with Europe is solely the IOC, Granted they made some big blunders they also had some big triumphs. I think the one thing that is really breaking these bids is the European economy. It has been in recession for the past six years and is showing no signs of be revived any time soon. With such a bleak economic and political outlook I probably would view the games as a waste of time, money, and resources too.

Norway is one of the richest countries on this planet. And it has enthusiastic winter sports fans.

If they don't want the Winter Games, it is all about the IOC.

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Norway is one of the richest countries on this planet. And it has enthusiastic winter sports fans.

If they don't want the Winter Games, it is all about the IOC.

Well, it's really the extravagance of the Games. That's what's turning people off. But better than cities and countries say "no" early on rather at some 11:59 hour like a certain city did and it throws everything into a scramble.

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Norway is one of the richest countries on this planet. And it has enthusiastic winter sports fans.

If they don't want the Winter Games, it is all about the IOC.

Having money doesn't mean you spend it where it's not warranted. Easy for us to say they should have gone for it because it's Norway and they love Winter sport. But would spending the money necessary to host a Winter Olympics be a wise decision for the country or its citizens? The powers that be decided it wasn't. Far be it from us to say otherwise. I don't know what it is that multiple cities/countries, particularly those in Europe, have balked at the Olympics. A lot of it, without question, is the IOC. But again, let's not pretend that bidding for and hosting an Olympics is a wise investment that the Norweigans would otherwise gone for if not for not wanting to deal with the IOC.

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Norway may love there winter sports but you get to an point of hosted too much, the older generation of Norway the 2022 winter games will be the 4th time they hosted the IOC in there life time for winter sports and for an nation of 5 million people I think they don't want to host it again for an while. Maybe in the 2040s or 50s they will host the winter games again Norway is the only country in Scandinavia which could host an 21st century WOPG. .

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Having money doesn't mean you spend it where it's not warranted. Easy for us to say they should have gone for it because it's Norway and they love Winter sport. But would spending the money necessary to host a Winter Olympics be a wise decision for the country or its citizens? The powers that be decided it wasn't. Far be it from us to say otherwise. I don't know what it is that multiple cities/countries, particularly those in Europe, have balked at the Olympics. A lot of it, without question, is the IOC. But again, let's not pretend that bidding for and hosting an Olympics is a wise investment that the Norweigans would otherwise gone for if not for not wanting to deal with the IOC.

From what I read, the Oslo discussion was very similar to the one in Munich, with Germany and Norway being in quite good economic conditions, existing venues and high interest in winter sports. And I dare say that in Munich, the IOC image made quite the difference, so I assume that with a better reputation, the Norwegians would have been much more willing to spend money. Given the IOC's reaction yesterday, the critics were definitely proven right though.

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Norway may love there winter sports but you get to an point of hosted too much, the older generation of Norway the 2022 winter games will be the 4th time they hosted the IOC in there life time for winter sports and for an nation of 5 million people I think they don't want to host it again for an while. Maybe in the 2040s or 50s they will host the winter games again Norway is the only country in Scandinavia which could host an 21st century WOPG. .

You honestly think that had anything to do with it? "Gee, you know what, we've hosted too much, let's pull out of this one so someone else has a shot." They would have won this one if they stayed in the race. But they wiser heads prevailed and they decided that's not a wise decision. It's the costs of the event that scared them off, not the proximity of having hosted in 1994. Otherwise it wouldn't have been all these other European cities that dropped out as well.

From what I read, the Oslo discussion was very similar to the one in Munich, with Germany and Norway being in quite good economic conditions, existing venues and high interest in winter sports. And I dare say that in Munich, the IOC image made quite the difference, so I assume that with a better reputation, the Norwegians would have been much more willing to spend money. Given the IOC's reaction yesterday, the critics were definitely proven right though.

Hosting an Olympics is a risky proposition. It begs the question of how smart an investment that money is. Why take the chance when odds are it's not going to pay off?

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Norway is one of the richest countries on this planet. And it has enthusiastic winter sports fans.

If they don't want the Winter Games, it is all about the IOC.

That is why they cited costs as a reason they dropped? Same thing with every other city that has dropped. They all say that costs are too high. Even though Germany, Norway, Sweden, and even Poland to extents are in good economic climates the Olympics are still a very expensive and risky investment.

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That is why they cited costs as a reason they dropped? Same thing with every other city that has dropped. They all say that costs are too high. Even though Germany, Norway, Sweden, and even Poland to extents are in good economic climates the Olympics are still a very expensive and risky investment.

Why are the costs so high? Because the IOC did nothing to stop the spiral. So there...maybe a simplistic view, but that's the bottom line after Sochi.

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The IOC encouraged the spiral. They only reason they are questioning the prodigality of the Games now is that everyone is abandoning ship. Make no mistake though, they love the lavish spectacle. If that were not true, they would've voted for different hosts and fostered a different type of delivery of Olympic projects.

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Why are the costs so high? Because the IOC did nothing to stop the spiral. So there...maybe a simplistic view, but that's the bottom line after Sochi.

The IOC encouraged the spiral. They only reason they are questioning the prodigality of the Games now is that everyone is abandoning ship. Make no mistake though, they love the lavish spectacle. If that were not true, they would've voted for different hosts and fostered a different type of delivery of Olympic projects.

The IOC are their own enablers and they're starting to pay the price for it. We've been saying it for awhile now.. hopefully they start to get the message because it shouldn't have taken this long and Oslo dropping out in order for them to realize they have a problem on their hands.

That I think of it.. you know what might really send a message? Imagine if the USOC very publicly and loudly turns their back on the IOC. Maybe that would get the IOC to realize the mess they're in and finally accept that they have to change. Obviously I'm not rooting for that. I'd rather the United States gets an Olympics and proves to the IOC (and the world) what a responsible Olympics should look like. Still, that this is the IOC, if they have an opportunity to choose a lavish spectacle over a more responsible bid, we know which they're going to choose. Tokyo 2020 notwithstanding, I'll believe it when I see it.

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Tokyo 2020 will be grand and impressive, I have no doubt. It's friendlier government, but I wouldn't expect a frugal, workable reboot of the Games. Look at the stadium alone.

Frankly, of the 2020 bidders, Tokyo was always likely to stage the flashiest Games. Plus there's the fact that few people will be able to afford to go to these Games because costs in Tokyo are astronomical and the exchange rates are quite unfavorable.

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That I think of it.. you know what might really send a message? Imagine if the USOC very publicly and loudly turns their back on the IOC. Maybe that would get the IOC to realize the mess they're in and finally accept that they have to change. Obviously I'm not rooting for that. I'd rather the United States gets an Olympics and proves to the IOC (and the world) what a responsible Olympics should look like.

Tokyo 2020 will be grand and impressive, I have no doubt. It's friendlier government, but I wouldn't expect a frugal, workable reboot of the Games. Look at the stadium alone.

The staduim is, of course, their national stadium and isn't just being built to impress the IOC. It's Japan's Wembley, its Maracana, its Stade de France. It'll host a Rugby World Cup Final before it hosts an Olympics, was going to be built even if they lost their bid and, unlike the Birds Nest or Sochi's monuments to giganticism, has a planned use. I've no problem with their extravegance here.

But you're right Athensfan, within the current model Japan is not doing anything radically different. The fact is, most cities in the World can't. The bid that's got closest to frugality in recent years is Madrid's and that not only didn't go down well with the IOC, it didn't go down well with most people on this forum!

How many cities in the world are actually in a position where they have a slew of existing venues and most of the necessary infrastructure? Not a whole lot. LA may come in and prove that the Games can be done with existing venues, but that's because they already have them!! I know that sounds like a stupidly obvious point to make, but selecting LA 2024 will not necessarily help the Games becoming more managable going forward.

And Quaker, it's not as though we haven't had responsible Olympics in recent editions. London, Vancouver, Torino, SLC, Sydney all fitted into their cities comfortably and didn't leave bad tastes afterwards. LA 2024 doesn't need to show the World how to do anything, but what it can offer the IOC a nice safe option that will help perceptions a lot and at least temper the giganticism of some recent Olympics. If we don't get a good European bid for 2024 (a Games I'd quite fancy going to for my 40th!), then LA could be ideal.

And in any case, it's 2026 which looks shakier to me than 2024 right now. Maybe that's one where Canada can step in again!

Edited by Rob.
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Well, instead of cutting down the (Summer) Games to manageable sizes where quality medium-sized cities can host, they keep piling up new sports -- like golf (using up another 30 hectares for a new venue. Remove those redundant taekwando, judo-type sports. Who cares if China or Malaysia will lose one of their sure-fire medal sports? And for the winters, drop the stupid luge/bobsled sport. That alone costs at least $150 million. Add synchronized figure skating teams or more curling teams (stupid as that sport also is).

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.. you know what might really send a message? Imagine if the USOC very publicly and loudly turns their back on the IOC. Maybe that would get the IOC to realize the mess they're in and finally accept that they have to change. Obviously I'm not rooting for that. I'd rather the United States gets an Olympics and proves to the IOC (and the world) what a responsible Olympics should look like. Still, that this is the IOC, if they have an opportunity to choose a lavish spectacle over a more responsible bid, we know which they're going to choose. Tokyo 2020 notwithstanding, I'll believe it when I see it.

..i would advocate dumping the 24 bid unless the IOC pay their own way 100%...imagine how many family members and friends of the family and friends of the friend of ioc members will descend and partake in free booze, accommodations, and abusing the hosts generosity.....IT ALL SEEMS LIKE SOME CLUSTERFUCK OF ASSH0LES AT THIS POINT. This whole thing has lost its magic really hasn't it? Even a lot of the athletes are privileged turds in real life.

you would be better served to go to a national park if you want something spectacular to do in the US.

Go BAKU!

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Remove those redundant taekwando, judo-type sports. Who cares if China or Malaysia will lose one of their sure-fire medal sports?

people will probably call the IOC racist if they specifically target asian dominated sports, so I think that's not something they want to do...

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Judo-like sports can be set up quickly and easily in any large hall or exhibition centre. Getting rid of them doesn't solve much. In 2012, London's ExCel was divvied up between Boxing, Fencing, Judo, Table Tennis, Taekwondo, Weightlifting and Wrestling. I would hazard a guess that after football, these sports were among the most profitable for organisers in 2012 when tickets sold are measured against cost of hosting.

Sliding sports aren't going anywhere, but you've got a point about legacy of sliding centres. I don't know how that's solved.

And golf....yeah, I'll give you golf. What's the point?

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But you're right Athensfan, within the current model Japan is not doing anything radically different. The fact is, most cities in the World can't. The bid that's got closest to frugality in recent years is Madrid's and that not only didn't go down well with the IOC, it didn't go down well with most people on this forum!

Seriously, I think the only reason Madrid's bid didn't go down well with the IOC & many people here was not bcuz of the frugality of the bid, but bcuz of the disingenuous nature of the theme of the bid team & their government that an "austerity Games" was the best answer for the IOC at this time, when Spain itself was really in no great financial position of their own to really be doing it.

Not to mention that it didn't win any points here either bcuz we all knew that "austerity" was not in the IOC's vocabulary. Just take a look at the list of demands to Norway in the recently released VG article. That in itself speaks volumes. Perception is everything a lot of the time. If Spain had actually been in much better economic shape, their bid would've been just as "flashy" as anyone else's in recent years. They weren't fooling anyone.

IT ALL SEEMS LIKE SOME CLUSTERFUCK OF ASSH0LES AT THIS POINT. This whole thing has lost its magic really hasn't it? Even a lot of the athletes are privileged turds in real life.

you would be better served to go to a national park if you want something spectacular to do in the US.

Go BAKU!

Lmfao

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..i would advocate dumping the 24 bid unless the IOC pay their own way 100%...imagine how many family members and friends of the family and friends of the friend of ioc members will descend and partake in free booze, accommodations, and abusing the hosts generosity.....IT ALL SEEMS LIKE SOME CLUSTERFUCK OF ASSH0LES AT THIS POINT. This whole thing has lost its magic really hasn't it? Even a lot of the athletes are privileged turds in real life.

you would be better served to go to a national park if you want something spectacular to do in the US.

Go BAKU!

The stupid thing with all these demands is it's a PR own goal. If the IOC paid for their own accommodation and hospitality then gave the organising committee a little bit less sponsorship money that would in effect be the same thing as what's happening now and I doubt anyone would care so much.

It doesn't seem like rocket sceience to just make things work so they look better to people on the outside looking in.

I'll tell you the number of times I thought "I'm really enjoying all this, but fucking hell I wish the IOC were paying for their own accommodation, that's ruined it for me" during London 2012. Errrr......zero.

It's a concern that winds newspapers up and gets people into a palava when their cities are considering bidding, but really, I don't (and didn't) care when my city hosted.

Real problems like venue legacy issues and taxpayer contributions are what should be the focus. But Oslo's government and its media have found easy pickings with the IOC's list of demands and shifted this focus. It's all a bit.....Pythonesque.

Thomas Bach.....

monty_python_silly.jpg

Edited by Rob.
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And golf....yeah, I'll give you golf. What's the point?

Are we still asking this question after seeing only a few of their demands? I'm surprised it took them this long to add it.

i really think LA is too fucked up to host suck a fucked up organization.

Oh well then they will fit together like two peas in a pod.

But you're right Athensfan, within the current model Japan is not doing anything radically different. The fact is, most cities in the World can't. The bid that's got closest to frugality in recent years is Madrid's and that not only didn't go down well with the IOC, it didn't go down well with most people on this forum!

This is why I supported Madrid. Sure we made jokes, but imagine the good things it would have done to the IOC's image at this point.

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This is why I supported Madrid. Sure we made jokes, but imagine the good things it would have done to the IOC's image at this point.

It might've made a small difference, but really, is Tokyo causing the damage here? No. It's Sochi. And that's the Games - if any - that's responsible for the 2022 field we now have.

And actually, I'd imagine critics would just take a different line: "the IOC is so irresponsible they gave the Games to a nation in recession with enormous youth unemployment when Tokyo was available!"

Nah......2020 is one thing the IOC can actually be confident about. If I were them I'd be more worried about the 2016 preparations (though those worries have eased a bit), 2018 and the lack of sponsorship those Games seems to be generating, and the Games after 2020. Tokyo will be just fine in terms of preparations and hosting and should enhance the Olympic movement.

Edited by Rob.
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Tokyo was definitely the best available choice for 2020. The problem is that the IOC should have already started restructuring the process and soliciting different types of bids that were more fiscally responsible and legacy-minded. Unfortunately they didn't do that. Now it feels like there's an impossible mountain to climb. They should have started reforming the process much earlier.

As for LA, the city would do a great job and just saying it would be "f*cked up" is no argument. The thing that worries me is that the US may not go far enough in re-envisioning the Games and may still give the IOC too much of the prodigality and spectacle that they crave. This is NOT the time to kowtow to the IOC.

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This is why I supported Madrid. Sure we made jokes, but imagine the good things it would have done to the IOC's image at this point.

Spain's economy continues to be at over a whopping 20%, especially among the younger generation. And is predicted to continue for yet another four years, despite their economy seeing 'some growth' recently. I don't see how that can be related to "jokes". So very doubtful that it would've done "good things" for the IOC's image at this point, & it wouldn't have made a bit of a difference in this dire 2022 race. Munich, St. moritz, Oslo, Stockholm & Krakow all would've still pulled out anyway. And besides, it's not like the Japanese are giving the IOC any headaches right now with 2020. They voted accordingly last year, & that's exactly what they're getting.

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*A meeting and cocktail party with King Harald before and after the opening ceremony, with the royal family or Norwegian Olympic committee picking up the tab.

(Only the IOC would be so presumptuous as to demand an invitation from a king.)

*A full bar for IOC pooh-bahs at the stadium during the opening and closing ceremonies.

*IOC members must be greeted with a smile upon arriving at their hotels.

*Hotels for IOC members must be pre-cleaned “particularly well,” and hotel management should be prepared to correct the slightest problem posthaste.

*All meeting rooms must be kept at 68 degrees.

*The usual car and driver at the beck and call of IOC members.

Norway said no to the inflated, ridiculous, remote, money gobbling and unsympathetic organization that is today's IOC......and so should the US.

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