zekekelso Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 If Denver were to bid again, there should be an understanding of the history. Again, I know this is the IOC we're talking about The core of the Denver-can't-win argument is that IOC voters are a bunch of petulant children. I wouldn't expect a Denver games anything soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 years later Chicago continues to pay for their failed bid. Emanuel borrows to make Michael Reese payments after failed Olympic bidMayor Rahm Emanuel has borrowed more than $21 million to start paying for the former Michael Reese hospital site that was bought as part of former Mayor Richard M. Daley’s failed bid for the 2016 summer Olympics. City Hall must now find the money to pay off both those loans and the $14.2 million or so due next year for principal and interest on the South Side property. Taxpayers will be on the hook for as much as $134 million during the next decade — the $91 million purchase price plus about $43 million in net interest and development costs — unless the city can find a company to start developing the land. In early 2009, Daley purchased the 49-acre hospital site south of the McCormick Place convention center as a potential site for an Olympic Village. At the time, city officials said the site could easily be resold if the city did not snag the Olympics, but then a prolonged bottoming-out of the real estate market set in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I think this is a Europe only problem right now. There doesn't seem to be too much anti-Olympic bid sentiment in the Americas or Asia or Oceania for that matter. In the US, there have always been anti-Olympic pockets on both the left and the right. On the right you have the anti-world, anti-any non-big-5 sport, anti-government spending, crowd. On the left you have the environmentalist and anti-global corporations crowd. I don't think you have a big anti-bid segment now, because you don't have any bids to opposes. But any possible 2024 bid faces a huge uphill challenge. The release of the Norwegian demands is going to make things much, much harder. Though trivial in many ways, they are the sort of thing people will rally around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Remove those redundant taekwando, judo-type sports. Who cares if China or Malaysia will lose one of their sure-fire medal sports? Malaysia has never won a medal in Taekwondo, Judo or any combat sport for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Norway said no to the inflated, ridiculous, remote, money gobbling and unsympathetic organization that is today's IOC......and so should the US. Even if San Diego were the USOC 2024 nominee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The core of the Denver-can't-win argument is that IOC voters are a bunch of petulant children. I wouldn't expect a Denver games anything soon. Yea, I know that tired old argument. Comes mostly from folks here who spend more time thinking about and talking about the history than anyone in the IOC probably would and not looking at what might it might actually look like if a Denver bid was put in front of them. Forgive me if I don't buy that argument here, a place that has a mentality of a high school locker room. The problem with the petulant children argument is that you're presuming to know what they will or won't throw a temper tantrum over. Again, just because some people here are still butthurt over Denver does not mean a majority of the IOC is automatically going to do the same, particularly when we're looking at an upcoming vote being Beijing and Almaty, a.k.a. Giant Douche vs. Turd Sandwich. Malaysia has never won a medal in Taekwondo, Judo or any combat sport for that matter. Don't confuse the argument by offering up actual facts. What purpose does that serve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 *A meeting and cocktail party with King Harald before and after the opening ceremony, with the royal family or Norwegian Olympic committee picking up the tab. (Only the IOC would be so presumptuous as to demand an invitation from a king.) *A full bar for IOC pooh-bahs at the stadium during the opening and closing ceremonies. *IOC members must be greeted with a smile upon arriving at their hotels. *Hotels for IOC members must be pre-cleaned particularly well, and hotel management should be prepared to correct the slightest problem posthaste. *All meeting rooms must be kept at 68 degrees. *The usual car and driver at the beck and call of IOC members. Norway said no to the inflated, ridiculous, remote, money gobbling and unsympathetic organization that is today's IOC......and so should the US. The US should say no to those demands, but saying no to the Games is another question. Let's see if the IOC cleans up their act. If they're willing to let the US put on the Games the way the US wants to, it might work. If they're going to be entitled sticks in the mud, then I agree the US shouldn't bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Real problems like venue legacy issues and taxpayer contributions are what should be the focus. But Oslo's government and its media have found easy pickings with the IOC's list of demands and shifted this focus. It's all a bit.....Pythonesque. ] Might be easy pickings, but they're still very symptomatic of the IOC. An organisation concerned about the temperature in its hotel rooms will not even understand what "legacy issues" means. Start cutting out those silly things and then move on to what really matters. And if the IOC was dumb enough to fall into the trap the Norwegians might have dug, then there's no need for sympathy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoNutz Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The US should say no to those demands, but saying no to the Games is another question. Let's see if the IOC cleans up their act. If they're willing to let the US put on the Games the way the US wants to, it might work. If they're going to be entitled sticks in the mud, then I agree the US shouldn't bid. Hmm but it doesn't appear that Bach and the IOC believe they're in a crisis situation. My question then is, is this officially a "crisis" whether they think it is or not, or better put are they basically still sniffing their own farts and calling it Chanel No. 5 believing that they are right and that we're all just stupid peasants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hmm but it doesn't appear that Bach and the IOC believe they're in a crisis situation. My question then is, is this officially a "crisis" whether they think it is or not, or better put are they basically still sniffing their own farts and calling it Chanel No. 5 believing that they are right and that we're all just stupid peasants? I can't tell what Bach and company really believe. Yes, they're making stupid public statements, but I think that's because on some level they realize the seriousness of the problem. They may not have owned up to it yet, but I think they must be aware that they need to change. It's hard to know for sure. Agenda 2020 has become very important. If there are no meaningful reforms then we'll know that the IOC is hopeless and I think the Games would certainly be in crisis. However, if there are substantive changes that lighten burdens on bidders and reduce the scale and cost of the Games, that will be encouraging. Actions speak louder than words. We've got a lot of disappointing words right now, but perhaps the actions will be more positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 guess the IOC isn't too worried bout all the international hubub created by their pompous statement to Oslo........it's still proudly posted at their website. -complete with celebratory firework backdrop- ...the IOC out of touch??? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 guess the IOC isn't too worried bout all the international hubub created by their pompous statement to Oslo........it's still proudly posted at their website. -complete with celebratory firework backdrop- ...the IOC out of touch??? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Even if some are embarrassed by the statement, there's no way to close Pandora's box now. It's out there. For the time being they'll ride it out and try (unsuccessfully) to save face. Like I said, what they DO matters a lot more than what they SAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The US should say no to those demands, but saying no to the Games is another question. Let's see if the IOC cleans up their act. If they're willing to let the US put on the Games the way the US wants to, it might work. If they're going to be entitled sticks in the mud, then I agree the US shouldn't bid. The US might be the guys who have the power to tell the IOC "fuuck off, we're not doing any of that", and the IOC might listen. But again, they can't come across with any of that stereotypical American arrogance either that we saw in the Chicago presentation. That might put off the IOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The US might be the guys who have the power to tell the IOC "fuuck off, we're not doing any of that", and the IOC might listen. But again, they can't come across with any of that stereotypical American arrogance either that we saw in the Chicago presentation. That might put off the IOC. I thought Chicago's presentation sucked, but I didn't think it was arrogant at all. Just amateurish and boring. "We need your Games." That wasn't arrogant in the least. Obama wasn't arrogant either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Malaysia has never won a medal in Taekwondo, Judo or any combat sport for that matter. Baron really has no idea what he's talking about in anything except maybe ceremonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 ...yeah it wasn't arrogant at all for Obama to be uncertain if he could attend till the very last minute or to have Oprah tag along (like somebody in Copenhagen gives a **** about her) and it wasn't arrogant to make everybody in the world wait at events for the American entourages to arrive late....not arrogant at all. An all those sincere speeches by the Obama's about how poor southside kids will become boxers really brings a tear to your eye. Just what we need in the southside.....more trained fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 And Anita deFrantz should just not speak in front of a crowd. Leave her out of the next presentation please. ...yeah it wasn't arrogant at all for Obama to be uncertain if he could attend till the very last minute or to have Oprah tag along (like somebody in Copenhagen gives a **** about her) and it wasn't arrogant to make everybody in the world wait at events for the American entourages to arrive late....not arrogant at all. The head of government and mayor of the city should be required to attend and be an important part of the presentation team imo. If they don't show up, the bid's a non-starter in my books. Obama should have been committed from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 ....everybody's gonna tell you he was in the middle of his health-scare fight......and would be criticized whatever he did. his insincerity is so monumental.....he may as well have stayed home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 It's very, very unlikely that either the mayor or the prime minister/president/etc will still hold that office in seven years, though. Boris Johnson wasn't mayor when London was bidding, nor was David Cameron prime minister. It doesn't serve much purpose other than providing opportunities for a photo op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 It's very, very unlikely that either the mayor or the prime minister/president/etc will still hold that office in seven years, though. Boris Johnson wasn't mayor when London was bidding, nor was David Cameron prime minister. It doesn't serve much purpose other than providing opportunities for a photo op. It doesn't matter if they will hold office during the Games, the hardest part is getting the Olympics and then initiating the preparations, so these leaders will be in office for the majority of that build up. Tony Blair got a lot of credit for London 2012, for example. It's about being their to support your country and showing the IOC that the Games have government support and involvement. One of Toronto's big selling points in 2008 was having the Premier, Mayor and PM there, to show that all 3 levels of government backed the bid. The IOC can also gauge a sense of what ppl they'll be working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Baron really has no idea what he's talking about in anything except maybe ceremonies. OK, badminton. Does it really matter? These are just sideline sports -- I don't really care who wins or loses in them. And Anita deFrantz should just not speak in front of a crowd. Leave her out of the next presentation please. The head of government and mayor of the city should be required to attend and be an important part of the presentation team imo. If they don't show up, the bid's a non-starter in my books. Obama should have been committed from the start. U really don't know what you're talking about. The senior IOC member from the bidding country presents the bid to his/her IOC colleagues. Too bad Chicago didn't have you as an adviser. You should really just stick to making inconsequential remarks, O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 U really don't know what you're talking about. The senior IOC member from the bidding country presents the bid to his/her IOC colleagues. Too bad Chicago didn't have you as an adviser. You should really just stick to making inconsequential remarks, O. Tokyo didn't use their senior IOC member to introduce the bid. It's not a requirement. And you should stick to being an obnoxious, whiny b*tch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 ...yeah it wasn't arrogant at all for Obama to be uncertain if he could attend till the very last minute or to have Oprah tag along (like somebody in Copenhagen gives a **** about her) and it wasn't arrogant to make everybody in the world wait at events for the American entourages to arrive late....not arrogant at all. An all those sincere speeches by the Obama's about how poor southside kids will become boxers really brings a tear to your eye. Just what we need in the southside.....more trained fighters. No, it wasn't arrogant at all. You are totally clueless here. It would have been seen as arrogant if Obama had NOT gone. Every other country sends it's head of state, but the US is above all that? That would not have sat well. As for the scheduling, the guy is the leader of the free world and is a wee bit busy. I'm not at all surprised he couldn't commit to the schedule until the last minute. He wasn't even in Copenhagen 24 hours. Where security is concerned, he's the president of the United States in a post 911 world. You want the president to dignify your event with his presence? You're gonna have to deal with the security. The president of Brazil doesn't have anywhere near as many potential assassins lurking in the shadows as the president of the USA. Regarding Oprah, she was the hit of the delegation. She's a great communicator, internationally known and a great person to stump for Chicago. She absolutely should've been there. That wasn't arrogance, that was just smart. The IOC managed to get the president of the US to come to them, hat in hand, (totally unprecedented) AND they spat on his bid by booting it out first. So no, there was no arrogance at all on the part of the US in any of that. You, sir, are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 i really don't think heads of state should be a part of these presentations...only mayors....it just takes away from the bid details and having someone like Obama come in and ad-lib some prepared remarks pretending to be engaged with the process is a distraction and in this case an embarrassment. i blame the IOC for expecting it more and more after such figures started appearing. what a huge burden for the bids to have to coordinate and hope their political heads will be a part of the thing. it should be discontinued to make it easier on everyone. p.s. how much do you think it cost taxpayers to send the Obama's to Copenhagen??????was it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 And Anita deFrantz should just not speak in front of a crowd. Leave her out of the next presentation please. The head of government and mayor of the city should be required to attend and be an important part of the presentation team imo. If they don't show up, the bid's a non-starter in my books. Obama should have been committed from the start. That's honestly one of the stupidest things I've read on this site. The heads of state should be prohibited from attending. These are GAMES -- not Middle East peace summits. The IOC needs to get over itself and focus on bid leadership and the mayors of the bid cities. That's it. The rest is just a three-ring circus that achieves nothing more than stroking the already inflated egos of a bunch if self-important windbags. It was incredibly gracious of Obama to clear his schedule for the stupid IOC. He has MUCH more important things to do than wasting his time begging these clueless, entitled snobs for the chance to host two weeks of sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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