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Survey Shows More Poles Against Krakow Hosting 2022 Winter Games

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Oh, okay. So that makes Kazahkstan very "European" then! :rolleyes:

Most Kazakh s people call themselves European it is more European then Turkey is by far and more secular and Liberal then Turkey is today you need to get rid of your 1950s mind set and look at the world in 2014.

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Kazakhstan is more Europe them Turkey is 15% of Kazakhstan is in Europe while it is only 5% for Turkey then Rest in Asia so this Eurasia, Central Asian Eastern Europe Middle Eastern country Kazakhstan is the largest land lock country in the world and it is an very complex place in the world.

Kazakhstan is not in the Middle East. Get a map please.

Some people hear NEED TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL BIG TIME Kazakhstan is an complex place and has an space centre from the old USSR where the space race was active.

What's space got to do with Olympic Hosting? I admit, it's impressive they have a space centre, but that won't impress the IOC.

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Most of Kazakhstan is Asia, a tiny bit is Europe. Kazakhstan is a member of UEFA. News flash - Kazakhstan is not in the Middle East.

Kazakhstan Europe part is as big as the UK and Ireland so it's bigger then the UK and Ireland.

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Kazakhstan Europe part is as big as the UK and Ireland so it's bigger then the UK and Ireland.

Your missing the point. Most of Kazakhstan is in Asia. Kazakhstan is completely not in the Middle East.

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Your missing the point. Most of Kazakhstan is in Asia. Kazakhstan is completely not in the Middle East.

Some parts of it are in the Middle East like a said Kazakhstan is an very very complex place.

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Like GCL said, it's one of the most complicated regions in the world. Almaty is 100% in Asia, I'm not denying that. Yet from a cultural perspective the nation is seen as European. So if it came down to Beijing and Almaty, two games that will be in Asia, will they go for the city more aligned with Europe culturally, or the city right by Pyeongchang? I think they would go with the more culturally Europe Almaty.

You really shouldn't be taking any cues from out-of-touch GCL. You'll be doing yourself a big favor. And seriously, you're assuming too much here. Most Europeans don't even consider Istanbul (which would have much more merit in saying that they're more culturally "European"), so much less an obscure location, by international standards, like Almaty.

China is poised in becoming the most powerful economy in the world by the end of this year, eclipsing the U.S. So surely, if the IOC wants "reliability" in this dire 2022 race, that's not gonna be something that they're just simply gonna gloss over bcuz of Almaty being "more culturally European" (which that is way open to debate itself).

Most Kazakh s people call themselves European it is more European then Turkey is by far and more secular and Liberal then Turkey is today you need to get rid of your 1950s mind set and look at the world in 2014.

And you should return from Mars already. By ethnicity, most Kazahks may be European. But that doesn't make Kazahkstan anymore "European" than say the U.S. or Australia.

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You really shouldn't be taking any cues from out-of-touch GCL. You'll be doing yourself a big favor. And seriously, you're assuming too much here. Most Europeans don't even consider Istanbul (which would have much more merit in saying that they're more culturally "European"), so much less an obscure location, by international standards, like Almaty.

China is poised in becoming the most powerful economy in the world by the end of this year, eclipsing the U.S. So surely, if the IOC wants "reliability" in this dire 2022 race, that's not gonna be something that they're just simply gonna gloss over bcuz of Almaty being "more culturally European" (which that is way open to debate itself).

You are the one who is out of touch GET BACK TO SCHOOL and this is not the 1950s any more and it will be by 2030 where China will over take the USA as the richest country in the world if there is not an revolution in China.

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Some parts of it are in the Middle East like a said Kazakhstan is an very very complex place.

No it isn't.

Is Kazakhstan in the Middle East? No - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East - Source: WIkipedia.

Is Kazakhstan in Europe? A little part of the Country is Europe - Officially the Republic of Kazakhstan, is a contiguous transcontinental country in Central Asia, with its smaller part west of the Ural River in Europe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan - Source: WIkipedia.

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Kazakhstan Europe part is as big as the UK and Ireland so it's bigger then the UK and Ireland.

Incredible! :rolleyes:

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Incredible! :rolleyes:

George Orwell once said, “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” and "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

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You really shouldn't be taking any cues from out-of-touch GCL. You'll be doing yourself a big favor. And seriously, you're assuming too much here. Most Europeans don't even consider Istanbul (which would have much more merit in saying that they're more culturally "European"), so much less an obscure location, by international standards, like Almaty.

China is poised in becoming the most powerful economy in the world by the end of this year, eclipsing the U.S. So surely, if the IOC wants "reliability" in this dire 2022 race, that's not gonna be something that they're just simply gonna gloss over bcuz of Almaty being "more culturally European" (which that is way open to debate itself).

And you should return from Mars already. By ethnicity, most Kazahks may be European. But that doesn't make Kazahkstan anymore "European" than say the U.S. or Australia.

Culturally yes, and that's all I have said. Your just defending my point.

No it isn't.

Is Kazakhstan in the Middle East? No - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East - Source: WIkipedia.

Is Kazakhstan in Europe? A little part of the Country is Europe - Officially the Republic of Kazakhstan, is a contiguous transcontinental country in Central Asia, with its smaller part west of the Ural River in Europe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan - Source: WIkipedia.

No one said it was in the Middle East we have settled that it is in Central Asia.

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Culturally yes, and that's all I have said. Your just defending my point.

No one said it was in the Middle East we have settled that it is in Central Asia.

GCL claims Kazakhstan is partly in the Middle East. It completely isn't.

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Culturally yes, and that's all I have said. Your just defending my point.

But since when has an Olympic bid won on a 'cultural' aspect alone. It hasn't. You're overplaying that one element when there's so many variables involved when it comes to any winning bid.

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George Orwell once said, The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it. and "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

You are neither telling the truth with all your Kazakhstan nonsense nor is it revolutionary what you're doing here.

The whole debate is plain silly.

Almaty: geographically in Central Central Central Asia, much nearer to Chinese border than that of any European country.

Ethnically and culturally a big mux, unsurprisingly for a country that zas been at the cross roads of major trade routes for centuries.

Maybe we should just say that Almaty can offer the first Spacelympics because of Baikonur?

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But since when has an Olympic bid won on a 'cultural' aspect alone. It hasn't. You're overplaying that one element when there's so many variables involved when it comes to any winning bid.

Never, but this race has never happened either. The IOC has never been in the case that it may loose the only two European bids. This is where culture could decide the winner. Asian country with European culture? Or Asian country that immortalizes traditional Asian culture?

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It is already on the edge of offensive to generalise "European culture" and " Asian culture" like that. As if Almaty had anything in common with Oslo, culturally...

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Also I have been saying that Almaty is ahead of Beijing because of it's venue plan. So yes I know there are many elements that win a bid, I'm not overplaying any of them.

I feel like so many people here jump into fights when they have not even read the entire fight, they just walk on into the middle of a heated debate.


It is already on the edge of offensive to generalise "European culture" and " Asian culture" like that. As if Almaty had anything in common with Oslo, culturally...

Really? You don't think Americans find it offensive when we are generalized? Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

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Never, but this race has never happened either. The IOC has never been in the case that it may loose the only two European bids. This is where culture could decide the winner. Asian country with European culture? Or Asian country that immortalizes traditional Asian culture?

So you think that China becoming the most powerful economy in the world, & with a population of 1.5 Billion by the time 2022 rolls around (& a big opportunity to promote Winter sports to 1/5 of the planet), would mean absolutely nothing to the IOC, simply bcuz Almaty may be more "culturally" European? Surely the IOC's sponsors would love that huge opportunity if it came down just between the two of those.

But that's the worst case scenario. Cuz honestly, I can't see both Oslo & Krakow pulling out. I think one of them will still go forward. But in the event that they both don't, I still don't the IOC being all that gung-ho about going to Almaty. I think Q01 has highlighted some of those main points, so I'm not going to repeat them.

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I'm sick of your entire 'Almaty sucks' argument, because from what I see it's the best technical bid,

Most of the venues are already constructed or are being constructed for the Winter Universidad. Only five venues will be constructed for the games, this means that most venues will have lots of test events, finished ahead of time, and reduced costs. No other city can say that...
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Couple tips for you, since you weren't even a teenager last time a winter host was selected:

1. Country, city location matter. Much more than who has their act together this far in advance.

2. Havng a bunch of ski runs is easy. Almaty is lacking the big tickets items... that's why I suggest you list them. They also lack media centers, villages, etc. Not sure why you think their games will be so cheap.

3. 2017 is in the future. You can't file that under experience. .

Oh, what the heck.... this arguement is totally stupid, but to say Kazakhstan is culturlaly is mind boggling stupid. For starters, how many European countries have fermented horse milk as the national drink??

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Couple tips for you, since you weren't even a teenager last time a winter host was selected:

1. Country, city location matter. Much more than who has their act together this far in advance.

2. Havng a bunch of ski runs is easy. Almaty is lacking the big tickets items... that's why I suggest you list them. They also lack media centers, villages, etc. Not sure why you think their games will be so cheap.

3. 2017 is in the future. You can't file that under experience. .

Oh, what the heck.... this arguement is totally stupid, but to say Kazakhstan is culturlaly is mind boggling stupid. For starters, how many European countries have fermented horse milk as the national drink??

Wow! What a cheap move! I love how you deleted the evidence that showed Almaty was not behind...oh lovely GamesBids.

So you think that China becoming the most powerful economy in the world, & with a population of 1.5 Billion by the time 2022 rolls around (& a big opportunity to promote Winter sports to 1/5 of the planet), would mean absolutely nothing to the IOC, simply bcuz Almaty may be more "culturally" European? Surely the IOC's sponsors would love that huge opportunity if it came down just between the two of those.

But that's the worst case scenario. Cuz honestly, I can't see both Oslo & Krakow pulling out. I think one of them will still go forward. But in the event that they both don't, I still don't the IOC being all that gung-ho about going to Almaty. I think Q01 has highlighted some of those main points, so I'm not going to repeat them.

So one second everyone here is saying Beijing will not host a third Asian games, but when it's down to a more culturally European city and a more Asian one, Beijing wins?

I refrained earlier from going into detail with my views of China's rising economy, but it's come to it. While the may have a larger GDP, their purchasing power is still very far behind. The GDP will mean nothing.

Source, ForiegnPolicy.com:

On Wednesday, the front page of the Financial Times declared that China stands poised to surpass the United States as the world's largest economy -- and to do so much sooner than anyone expected. Citing new data from a consortium of leading statistical agencies, the paper explains that when the Chinese and American economies are compared on the basis of purchasing power parity -- or how much a yuan or dollar can purchase in their respective countries -- China is on the threshold of overtaking the United States in terms of economic output as soon as this year.

140430_ftgraphiccrop.png
With a graphic set against Shanghai skyline, the ubiquitous metaphor for Chinese growth, the story proclaims that a geopolitical turning point has arrived:
That pronouncement is sure to provoke a litany of hand-wringing in Washington, where analysts worried about China's increasing power have considered the moment when it becomes the world's largest economy as a signal milestone in its potentially inevitable ascension over the United States. But are these purveyors of American doom and gloom right to worry that Beijing's arrival at the top the global economic pile portends American decline?
In short, no. Indeed, the citizens of the United States are far richer than the average Chinese person, and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. U.S. per capita income in 2012 sat at around $52,000; for China, that figure was about $9,000.
140430_percapGDPcrop.png
If anything, Wednesday's news is but the earlier arrival of a long-expected development. Given its massive population of about 1.35 billion -- roughly four times the size of the United States -- China was widely expected to eventually become the world's largest economy. It was just a question of when. According to World Bank data cited by the Wall Street Journal, the estimated value of the U.S. economy in 2012 was $16 trillion, double the value of China's. If those figures are accurate, it will be years before the Chinese economy overtakes that of the United States.
Those figures, however, don't account for fluctuations in the exchange rates between the dollar and China's yuan. Wednesday's data, courtesy of the International Comparison Program, a coalition of statistical bureaus housed under the auspices of the World Bank, uses an updated measure of purchasing power parity, a way of comparing economies across borders by taking into account price differences between countries, to conclude that the Chinese economy is in fact much larger than thought. The FT headline is more a question of an update in accounting accuracy than a substantive change in economic reality. Another note of caution: Some analysts question the reliability of Chinese economic data, suggesting that the Chinese economy may be in much worse shape than official numbers would indicate and may have already begun slowing.
For the moment, Chinese policymakers are desperately trying to figure out how to ensure that their country doesn't get stuck in what is known as the "middle income trap," a phrase that refers to the tendency of economies to stagnate once they escape the clutches of poverty. Escaping national poverty is by no means easy, but entering the ranks of the truly affluent can be staggeringly difficult. (The Indian economy, which has the potential to rival the size of China's, is a good example of what the Chinese government fears. After years of breakneck growth, the Indian economy has slowed, and some analysts are predicting the end of the Indian growth miracle.)
Having expanded its economy enormously, Beijing has been throwing its weight around abroad, fueling fears that Beijing will gradually overtake the United States as the world's leading superpower. China, for example, is investing heavily in Africa and has become embroiled in a nasty dispute with its neighbors over a set of disputed islands.
There's no guarantee, though, that China's economy will continue growing -- or even maintain its current strength. While China was able to escape the recent financial crisis relatively unscathed, many analysts believe that a homegrown economic implosion may not be far off. China's investment-fueled growth have sent real estate prices skyrocketing and seen China's banks issue huge amounts of credit. If growth slows, borrowers may default on the loans used to build the highways and gleaming trains that have come to symbolize China's meteoric rise, China could potentially see a cascading series of bank failures. If enough of them went under, the banking failures could spur widespread social and political unrest.
These are but some of the things to keep in mind when commentators inevitably bemoan the end of American power and the arrival of China.

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I'm not going to deny, Geopolitics will be one of the most crucial decisions for the IOC members.

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So one second everyone here is saying Beijing will not host a third Asian games, but when it's down to a more culturally European city and a more Asian one, Beijing wins?

Let me guess. You've never been to Beijing or Almaty. You've never spoken to anybody who has been to either city. Never read books by people who live in those cities. And yet you fell 100% comfortble making the argument that one town is more "culturlally European" than the other. You are arguing something you know nothing about... other than possible what you've leanred from a moron who has posted that Kazakhstan is in the middle east.

PS - It's generally a good idea to not quote an entire post if you are only responding to one part of it. If you think I was trying to hide "evidence" that you were right, you understand nothing.

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If it comes down to a battle of Kazakhstan versus China, then yes the country of 1.3 billion and a superior economy than an obscure Central Asian country (culturally it can be whatever it wants, but it's still predominantly in Asia) and a host city that is closer to China than it is any other country other than Kyrgyzstan

Did you also consider that maybe the IOC doesn't want to go to a former Soviet republic just 8 years after being in Russia if they have any alternative, even if that alternative is Beijing?

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So one second everyone here is saying Beijing will not host a third Asian games, but when it's down to a more culturally European city and a more Asian one, Beijing wins?

I refrained earlier from going into detail with my views of China's rising economy, but it's come to it. While the may have a larger GDP, their purchasing power is still very far behind. The GDP will mean nothing.

You're the one, though, that is making it a Beijing vs an Almaty battle. If it's just between those two, then yes. But if Oslo &/or Krakow are still in the race, then no.

And how much "purchasing power" do the Kazahks have? That article is mainly comparing the U.S. since it's our economy that the Chinese will overtake. But the U.S. ain't bidding for 2022. But just by numbers alone, 1.5 Billion is a heck of a difference from only 20 million, tops. So you do the math.

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It's an irrelevant argument anyway. Until Oslo and Krakow Officially withdraw, Oslo is the favourite, Krakow is second. If or when that happens, then this discussion is relevant.

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