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Survey Shows More Poles Against Krakow Hosting 2022 Winter Games

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Didn't Tokyo suffer low national support to which ended up turning around?

Yep. I once dug up an old GB thread with poor poll results and the consensus reply was that the bid was doomed. DOOMED!

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Beijing's human rights issue and communist government are clearly not a problem since they've already hosted the Games before. I think the biggest issue may be that the FIS hasn't even approved their alpine venue, at least that's what I read somewhere on here.

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i would strongly disagree, Almaty is not a mess of the bid. In fact at this point it's the only bid without a major problem, ignoring that fact is very ignorant.

No major problem? Well, except the whole "It's in Kazakhstan" thing. Talk about ignoring an important fact.

I'd accuse you of being willing to support a Sunnydale games but I'm afraid you wouldn't get the reference.

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i would strongly disagree, Almaty is not a mess of the bid. In fact at this point it's the only bid without a major problem, ignoring that fact is very ignorant. Sure Oslo and Krakow may only have one major problem, but that problem will derail the entire bid. Beijing has human rights issues, but is still 1 billion people, also you talked about Almatys venues; they have the most built. More than any other city in this race, they also do not lack 'Major' experience they have host many winter events in the past. I'm sick of all this Almaty bashing.

They will be so piss to see Almaty Kazakhstan getting the 2022 Winter Games which is very very likely now I can now wait to see the slide show. Oslo and Krakow is going down the tubes Ukraine is an a war and Beijing it way too soon to go back to that city and I think the IOC will love to go to the ICE city of China Harbin for the 1st winter games.

Almaty Kazakhstan is the most ready city in the race and they will put on a low cost games and a winter hub for winter sports now and Kazakhstan is on the top 5 countries with the fastest growing economies in the world it and it has grown by 1500% since 1991 Kazakhstan still has an space centre where the Soviets went to space and Kazakhstan is an secular stable country and government and hosted an outstanding Asian Winter Games in 2011 and is hosting the 2017 World Expo in Astana and 2017 Winter University Games in Almaty which will be a great test event 2nd biggest winter event after the Winter Olympics Games 5 years away from 2022.

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I can see your point and I respect your view on the matter. What's going against both Almaty and Beijing is the fact of the past 2 Olympics will be in Asia. Of course, if the IOC had no choice and Krakow failed it's referendum and Oslo withdrew, then the IOC would have to go to Beijing or Almaty. Don't you think that maybe Almaty should of Bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics and Paralympics instead? The reason why I say that, is because, Rio Hosted the 2007 Pan and Parapan American Games, so it was like a warm-up for a Rio 2016 Bid (Which they eventually won). Almaty is Hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade and the 2026 Bidding Process starts in 2017, so that could of given Almaty advantage in the 2026 race. Like I said, I acknowledge that Almaty has some Venues in place, but I don't think they can compete with Oslo (The favourites), Krakow (Second favourites) and Beijing (IOC's Insurance Policy).

Well I believe Almaty is hosting the Euro Winter Games, if that's the case then it's a huge test event for the city. One card Almaty could use is that they would be the first 'middle east' host. To be honest Almaty and Istanbul are the Middle East's best shots at hosting the games, so Almaty would be a new region capable of hosting the event.

Also Almaty does not just have 'some' venues in place they have more than any other city, not to mention Almaty is on top of their game. They were the first city interested, the first to apply, the first to send the file, and they are lobbying very well. Overall Almaty is becoming the elephant in the room.

No major problem? Well, except the whole "It's in Kazakhstan" thing. Talk about ignoring an important fact.

I'd accuse you of being willing to support a Sunnydale games but I'm afraid you wouldn't get the reference.

Sure maybe I would, but at this point Kazakhstan is the only sure nation the IOC can rely on. As I said above Almaty is structurally ready to host the games with the exception of lacking Western Europe glamour. Almaty gives the IOC a chance to host a financially responsible games, reinvent and re-brand a city and nation, and improve it's image internationally.

correction Almaty is hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade, many venues in these games will be used for 2022.

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Well I believe Almaty is hosting the Euro Winter Games, if that's the case then it's a huge test event for the city. One card Almaty could use is that they would be the first 'middle east' host. To be honest Almaty and Istanbul are the Middle East's best shots at hosting the games, so Almaty would be a new region capable of hosting the event.

Also Almaty does not just have 'some' venues in place they have more than any other city, not to mention Almaty is on top of their game. They were the first city interested, the first to apply, the first to send the file, and they are lobbying very well. Overall Almaty is becoming the elephant in the room.

Sure maybe I would, but at this point Kazakhstan is the only sure nation the IOC can rely on. As I said above Almaty is structurally ready to host the games with the exception of lacking Western Europe glamour. Almaty gives the IOC a chance to host a financially responsible games, reinvent and re-brand a city and nation, and improve it's image internationally.

correction Almaty is hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade, many venues in these games will be used for 2022.

You have some valid points, I must add.

But one thing I will correct is, Kazakhstan is not in the Middle East - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Traditional_definition_of_the_Middle_East - Source: Wikipedia.

I wouldn't say Almaty and Istanbul are the Middle East's best shot of getting the Games. 1) Kazakhstan is not in the Middle East. 2) Turkey won't get an Olympic Games any time soon.

Almaty isn't the only City with alot of Venues in place. Oslo also has alot of Infrastructure and Venues in place.

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You have some valid points, I must add.

But one thing I will correct is, Kazakhstan is not in the Middle East - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Traditional_definition_of_the_Middle_East - Source: Wikipedia.

I wouldn't say Almaty and Istanbul are the Middle East's best shot of getting the Games. 1) Kazakhstan is not in the Middle East. 2) Turkey won't get an Olympic Games any time soon.

Almaty isn't the only City with alot of Venues in place. Oslo also has alot of Infrastructure and Venues in place.

Oslo really does not have a lot, as someone who wants Oslo to host and was using the amount of infrastructure they had as an argument to favor them I was surprised when I realized it was not a lot. In fact those games would still be pretty costly.

Turkey will be the first Mid-East nation to host a summer games, whether its in fifty years or a hundred.

Your right about the Middle East, although I would say that the nation falls into a far eastern category. It's not completely Asian and it's not Completely European, it's in the middle. Nonetheless it would still would bring the games to a new region.

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Oslo really does not have a lot, as someone who wants Oslo to host and was using the amount of infrastructure they had as an argument to favor them I was surprised when I realized it was not a lot. In fact those games would still be pretty costly.

Turkey will be the first Mid-East nation to host a summer games, whether its in fifty years or a hundred.

Your right about the Middle East, although I would say that the nation falls into a far eastern category. It's not completely Asian and it's not Completely European, it's in the middle. Nonetheless it would still would bring the games to a new region.

Continuing the discussion form your last paragraph, you could argue that Russia falls into the far Eastern Category. It's not Completely European, neither Completely Asian. For example, Moscow is in the European Section of Russia, but Vladivostok is on the Far Eastern Asian Section of Russia. Russia isn't in the Middle East though.

Regardless of the Public Support issues with the Oslo Bid, Oslo 2022 is still by far the strongest Bid out of the 5 and I assume many would agree with me on that. Almaty 2022 needs to grow on me a bit more. When I first joined here, I weren't too thrilled with Almaty 2022, but I'm starting to like it slightly more now. Of course, Almaty 2022 would be a new region for the Olympic Movement. I wouldn't say it would be 'Devastating' if Almaty won, but it wouldn't be the ideal choice IMO.

Correction: Continuing the discussion from your last paragraph.

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Sure maybe I would, but at this point Kazakhstan is the only sure nation the IOC can rely on. As I said above Almaty is structurally ready to host the games with the exception of lacking Western Europe glamour. Almaty gives the IOC a chance to host a financially responsible games, reinvent and re-brand a city and nation, and improve it's image internationally.

correction Almaty is hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade, many venues in these games will be used for 2022.

If the IOC is relying on Kazakhstan, they're in bigger trouble than we thought. I wouldn't exactly call Almaty reliable when they've only bid once before and failed to make a shortlist where there were only 3 other candidates.

They will be so piss to see Almaty Kazakhstan getting the 2022 Winter Games which is very very likely now I can now wait to see the slide show. Oslo and Krakow is going down the tubes Ukraine is an a war and Beijing it way too soon to go back to that city and I think the IOC will love to go to the ICE city of China Harbin for the 1st winter games.

Almaty Kazakhstan is the most ready city in the race and they will put on a low cost games and a winter hub for winter sports now and Kazakhstan is on the top 5 countries with the fastest growing economies in the world it and it has grown by 1500% since 1991 Kazakhstan still has an space centre where the Soviets went to space and Kazakhstan is an secular stable country and government and hosted an outstanding Asian Winter Games in 2011 and is hosting the 2017 World Expo in Astana and 2017 Winter University Games in Almaty which will be a great test event 2nd biggest winter event after the Winter Olympics Games 5 years away from 2022.

Good for them how they've grown since 1991. Where'd they start from? Because if their GDP was small then, that percentage doesn't do much for them.

Norway's GDP (as of 2012) is around $500 billion. Poland is right behind them. Kazakhstan's GDP is just over $200 billion. Even with their growth, that's a pretty significant gap. So I don't think we can cite their economy as a strength in their favor when, other than Ukraine, the next smallest candidate has an economy 2.5 times their size.

And to the Africa argument some, including myself, have made.. the vote for the 2022 Olympics is in 2015. So events they're holding in 2017 don't mean all that much for their 2015 vote.

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Your right about the Middle East, although I would say that the nation falls into a far eastern category. It's not completely Asian and it's not Completely European, it's in the middle. Nonetheless it would still would bring the games to a new region.

It most certainly is in the middle.. it's in Central Asia.

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Challenge to you guys.... as you promote one city as having more venues in place than another, list the actual venues you think each has in place.

Also, look at a map. By any sensible definition, Almaty is in Central Asia. It's due North of, say, India. Or China for that matter.

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Challenge to you guys.... as you promote one city as having more venues in place than another, list the actual venues you think each has in place.

Also, look at a map. By any sensible definition, Almaty is in Central Asia. It's due North of, say, India. Or China for that matter.

We did, that's why I corrected my previous statement.

We do not need to list them, there was a picture posted a few months ago, right after the file were released that showed the amount of venues each city would need to construct, Almaty had the lowest number of venues.

To construct

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I can't wait for the referendum and then the shortlist publication. The 2022 threads all look the same now, same arguments going round in circles without any new concrete info.

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We did, that's why I corrected my previous statement.

We do not need to list them, there was a picture posted a few months ago, right after the file were released that showed the amount of venues each city would need to construct, Almaty had the lowest number of venues.

To construct

Nice typo there, way to make your case.

Okay, so you had an image (I know which one you're talking about, I remember seeing it) giving a snapshot of what's there. zeke's challenge to you though was to list actual venues. If you don't want to do that, fine. But at least if you're going to respond to that challenge, find that picture rather than saying "we do not need to list them" which is a total cop out

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Nice typo there, way to make your case.

Okay, so you had an image (I know which one you're talking about, I remember seeing it) giving a snapshot of what's there. zeke's challenge to you though was to list actual venues. If you don't want to do that, fine. But at least if you're going to respond to that challenge, find that picture rather than saying "we do not need to list them" which is a total cop out

Do you remember the thread it was in, I'm looking for it, but I can't find it.

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Almaty Kazakhstan in in Eastern Middle East it will make history as the 1st Central Asian, Middle East and Islamic World Olympics and Paralympics Games.

Eastern Middle East? What's next.. we're going to say Canada is in Northern North America?

Kazakhstan has a very large Islamic population, but by no definition are they in the Middle East. They're in Central Asia. You can certainly count them a part of the Muslim World, but not the Middle East.

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Almaty Kazakhstan in in Eastern Middle East it will make history as the 1st Central Asian, Middle East and Islamic World Olympics and Paralympics Games.

Go back 1 or 2 pages, I posted a link, which showed Countries that are in the Middle East. Kazakhstan is not listed.

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Do you remember the thread it was in, I'm looking for it, but I can't find it.

I don't

ODogeGC.png

Nevermind the I don't, there you go

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I don't

ODogeGC.png

Nevermind the I don't, there you go

Almaty is clearly in frontrunner now they can put on a great grand low cost games and Almaty 2022 is written all over by now after Sochi Russia the IOC will want to go for the Fiscally Conservative way low cost and that will be in Almaty Kazakhstan favour.

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Again, I suggest you actually list them to keep. Remember, venues aren't equal... you can't just preparedness by just counting them.

I'm not doing this, many people have held the same argument with you on this situation. The bottom line is the Krakow will have a very low budget compared to other games, if you want a list read the damn file.

I'm sick of your entire 'Almaty sucks' argument, because from what I see it's the best technical bid, will it win? Maybe, especially if things go south for the other bids.

Another point you always try and use is how bad the nation is, It does not matter if it's Kazakhstan they have their **** together unlike other bids in this race.

Yet sense I'm in a good mood here you go:

OLYMPIC PARK:
Almaty Olympic Ice Arena - Figure skating, short track
Curling Arena - Curling
Olympic village
CITY ZONE:
Almaty Central Stadium - Opening and closing ceremonies
Almaty Ice Palace - Ice hockey
Baluan Sholak Sports Palace - Ice hockey
“Sunkar” International Ski Jumping Complex - Ski jumping, nordic combined
“Sunkar” sliding venue - Bobsleigh, luge, skeleton
MOUNTAIN VENUES:
Ak–Bulak ski resort
Cross country and biathlon stadium - cross country, biathlon
“Ak–Bulak” ski resort - freestyle (slopestyle, half pipe), snowboard (slopestyle, half pipe)
Medeu/Shymbulak zone
Medeo - speed skating
Shymbulak ski resort - alpine skiing
Tabagan ski resort
“Tabagan” ski resort - freestyle (aerial, mogul)
Kok-Zhaylau ski resort
“Kok-Zhaylau” ski resort - freestyle (cross), snowboard (slalom, cross)
Olympic village
Most of the venues are already constructed or are being constructed for the Winter Universidad. Only five venues will be constructed for the games, this means that most venues will have lots of test events, finished ahead of time, and reduced costs. No other city can say that...
Proof and completion dates from Applicant File:
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Almaty is clearly in frontrunner now they can put on a great grand low cost games and Almaty 2022 is written all over by now after Sochi Russia the IOC will want to go for the Fiscally Conservative way low cost and that will be in Almaty Kazakhstan favour.

The IOC won't have 3 Asian Olympics in a row. Almaty may have the most Venues, but they aren't the strongest contender. Kazakhstan is too risky, as it's never Hosted a Major Sporting Event (Fifa World Cup, Summer Olympics, Winter Olympics, Commonwealth Games (Kazakhstan's not in the Commonwealth) or UEFA Euro). Norway has Hosted a Winter Olympics before. Poland Co-Hosted UEFA Euro 2012. China Hosted the 2008 Summer Olympics and Paralympics. Even Ukraine, Co-Hosted UEFA Euro 2012. Beijing and Almaty will only stand a chance if Oslo and Krakow withdraw, because PyeongChang 2018 and Tokyo 2020 are both in Asia.

No major problem? Well, except the whole "It's in Kazakhstan" thing. Talk about ignoring an important fact.

I'd accuse you of being willing to support a Sunnydale games but I'm afraid you wouldn't get the reference.

It's not even to do with 'It's in Kazakhstan'. I also agree that Almaty won't win, but it's not because it's in Kazakhstan. It's because they haven't got experience in Hosting Major Sporting Events and the IOC won't have 3 Asian Olympics in a row.

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Almaty is clearly in frontrunner now they can put on a great grand low cost games and Almaty 2022 is written all over by now after Sochi Russia the IOC will want to go for the Fiscally Conservative way low cost and that will be in Almaty Kazakhstan favour.

"Grand low cost games" aren't so grand if they're in an obscure country that may or may not leave a legacy for. They may have the goods (key part of that sentence: "may have") but is that where the IOC wants to go for 2022? I know their options aren't the best here, but I don't know I'd call them the frontrunner

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