Oly Fan Survey: Opening Ceremonies

[JMarkSnow2012]

Out of interest - what stereotypes do you feel the Sydney 2000 ceremony peddled?

I'll modify my comment slightly to re-iterate what I said about Sydney a while back. It seemed to be about Australian stereotypes which would resonate specifically with an American audience.

Stockmen = cowboys.

Great Barrier Reef = a nice alternative to Florida for diving holidays.

Aboriginal Australians = Native Americans.

Outback = states like Arizona and Wyoming (and echoes of Crocodile Dundee's little country retreat, bigger than New York state).

Pioneers = pioneers.

Outlaws = outlaws.

I guess the lawn-mowers were more for the British "Neighbours" fans.

Immigrants = immigrants.

Cranes and construction = Manhattan, Chicago, Houston etc.

Cauldron = USS Enterprise-D saucer section.

[mr.bernham]

I'll modify my comment slightly to re-iterate what I said about Sydney a while back. It seemed to be about Australian stereotypes which would resonate specifically with an American audience.

Stockmen = cowboys.

Great Barrier Reef = a nice alternative to Florida for diving holidays.

Aboriginal Australians = Native Americans.

Outback = states like Arizona and Wyoming (and echoes of Crocodile Dundee's little country retreat, bigger than New York state).

Pioneers = pioneers.

Outlaws = outlaws.

I guess the lawn-mowers were more for the British "Neighbours" fans.

Immigrants = immigrants.

Cranes and construction = Manhattan, Chicago, Houston etc.

Cauldron = USS Enterprise-D saucer section.

I Don't view it that way at all, sure some very basic Australia Stereotypes were used to keep people interested the ceremony had it's own beautiful look and story.

[olympiaki-agones]

Sydney's ceremonies were brilliant, but I still stick on Barcelona because its music and fanfares. It was really perfect, giving all sort of emotions even during the nation parades that usual are boring to watch. Very Western, very European, very Mediterranean, very Spanish, very Catalonian, very Olympic, very dramatic… a very good human touch. I think Athens used such elements but more solemn.

Seoul and Beijing were more into the cultural circus to show up: Hey, look at us and what we are! Like watching well-trained bees and ants doing impressive mosaics.

[runningrings]

I'll modify my comment slightly to re-iterate what I said about Sydney a while back. It seemed to be about Australian stereotypes which would resonate specifically with an American audience.

Stockmen = cowboys.

Great Barrier Reef = a nice alternative to Florida for diving holidays.

Aboriginal Australians = Native Americans.

Outback = states like Arizona and Wyoming (and echoes of Crocodile Dundee's little country retreat, bigger than New York state).

Pioneers = pioneers.

Outlaws = outlaws.

I guess the lawn-mowers were more for the British "Neighbours" fans.

Immigrants = immigrants.

Cranes and construction = Manhattan, Chicago, Houston etc.

Cauldron = USS Enterprise-D saucer section.

You drawing similarities between our history and that of the US doesn't make it stereotypical.. we are two countries of a similar European colonial heritage, so similar themes would arise. I think pointing out things like "Aboriginal Australians = Native Americans" and "immigrants = immigrants" is a big stretch and oversimplifying things. At least we didn't have a gigantic segment dedicated to Medicare

We simply told important aspects of our nation's history - it was in no way aimed at a US audience as much as it was aimed at the home audience of anywhere else. What other themes or chapters should have Sydney's ceremony tapped into?

[Sir Rols]

Yep, we, the USA and Canada all share the fact we're anglo-founded immigrant/melting-pot nations, with vast areas with varying dramatic landscapes and we all have our own indigenes with their own distinctive cultures which we would have got pilloried if they didn't get a significant segment in such a ceremony.

Beyond that the summary was a bit bit rich for someone who always bemoans that people across the pond and elsewhere don't "get" and appreciate the underlying cultural intricacies and sophistication of the London OC. Oh well, we found ours an emotional roller coaster that touched our national psyches as well. Go figure for us colonials!

Actually:

The Thames = The Hudson or Mississippi rivers

Green & Pleasant = Pilgrim Fathers

Pandemonium = Pittsburgh Steel

James Bond = Jason Bourne

The Queen = Michelle Obama

Voldemort in Great Ormond St = her husband introducing evil Obamacare

Mr Bean = Jim Carey (or is he one of those closet Canucks?)

Frankie & June say Thanks Tim = American Idol (from Motown to Seattle Grunge) tribute to DARPANET (or maybe Steve Jobs - Kurt and Miss Ross say "Thanks Steve")

Fading footballer (David Beckham) introducing the torch = fading boxer (Ali) lighting the cauldron

[ofan]

Mr Bean is a character not an actor. So maybe more akin to Bob and Doug Mackenzie from SCTV or Mike Myer's Wayne's World on SNL.

[mr.bernham]

Yep, we, the USA and Canada all share the fact we're anglo-founded immigrant/melting-pot nations, with vast areas with varying dramatic landscapes and we all have our own indigenes with their own distinctive cultures which we would have got pilloried if they didn't get a significant segment in such a ceremony.

Beyond that the summary was a bit bit rich for someone who always bemoans that people across the pond and elsewhere don't "get" and appreciate the underlying cultural intricacies and sophistication of the London OC. Oh well, we found ours an emotional roller coaster that touched our national psyches as well. Go figure for us colonials!

Actually:

The Thames = The Hudson or Mississippi rivers

Green & Pleasant = Pilgrim Fathers

Pandemonium = Pittsburgh Steel

James Bond = Jason Bourne

The Queen = Michelle Obama

Voldemort in Great Ormond St = her husband introducing evil Obamacare

Mr Bean = Jim Carey (or is he one of those closet Canucks?)

Frankie & June say Thanks Tim = American Idol (from Motown to Seattle Grunge) tribute to DARPANET (or maybe Steve Jobs - Kurt and Miss Ross say "Thanks Steve")

Fading footballer (David Beckham) introducing the torch = fading boxer (Ali) lighting the cauldron

As a proud Louisianian I declare allegiance to France! The Hudson River would be the US Thames or Seine because it is the river that flows through NYC.

[mr.bernham]

The problem with the US is that unlike Canada (not streamlining, but being honest) the US has so many different colonial cultured regions, Louisiana is the largely French influenced area of the nation, while the West and South East are more Spanish in influence. The East is where British influence could be traced too. Even today there are still 'rivalries' between Southern (largely French) culture and the Yankees up north (For Louisiana that's anyone above Baton Rouge ). So to classify the states as purely Anglican is a direct insult to those of us who fervently try to preserve French and Spanish America.

[ofan]

Complete, and utter drivel.

[mr.bernham]

Complete, and utter drivel.

Oh it is? It's complete drivel that Louisiana was colonized by the French and that cultural rivalries still exist between us and the Anglo populations up north? It's not nonsense it's reality.

[Athensfan]

Highly, highly over-rated.

Desperately, desperately tasteless and ignorant.

[Athensfan]

I'll modify my comment slightly to re-iterate what I said about Sydney a while back. It seemed to be about Australian stereotypes which would resonate specifically with an American audience.

Stockmen = cowboys.

Great Barrier Reef = a nice alternative to Florida for diving holidays.

Aboriginal Australians = Native Americans.

Outback = states like Arizona and Wyoming (and echoes of Crocodile Dundee's little country retreat, bigger than New York state).

Pioneers = pioneers.

Outlaws = outlaws.

I guess the lawn-mowers were more for the British "Neighbours" fans.

Immigrants = immigrants.

Cranes and construction = Manhattan, Chicago, Houston etc.

Cauldron = USS Enterprise-D saucer section.

This is utterly ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding and appreciation for both Australia and the US.

Not surprised, though, considering the source's myopic praise of London's OC.

[Athensfan]

Oh it is? It's complete drivel that Louisiana was colonized by the French and that cultural rivalries still exist between us and the Anglo populations up north? It's not nonsense it's reality.

It's drivel because it has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and bears ZERO relationship to the discussion of OCs. It's not even a tangent people are interested in taking. Finally, despite playing a role in history, the French influence in American culture is fairly modest and there is not a lot of friction in the present day so let it go.

[mr.bernham]

It's drivel because it has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and bears ZERO relationship to the discussion of OCs. It's not even a tangent people are interested in taking. Finally, despite playing a role in history, the French influence in American culture is fairly modest and there is not a lot of friction in the present day so let it go.

I was referring to it because we were talking about influence of Colonial Powers on modern countries. I pointed out that Louisiana is an exception because of it's heavy French influence, sure a good portion of the nation is Anglo, but Louisiana is heavily French. To say that it's (France) influence is modest is a large understatement (Louisiana still speaks French). Furthermore French culture was the main inspiration of our Founding Fathers, they looked to it for the construction of our capitol, Napoleons renovations to Paris inspired American Architects to create the City Beautiful Movement which arguably created modern Chicago, French ideas and customs have also become integrated parts of the nation, and lastly if it was not for the Louisiana purchase America would have been much smaller than it is today. We may not speak French and our culture will always have a thicker rope that leads to Britain, you can not deny or understand the huge influence France has had on our countries history and modern culture.

Also by saying there is no friction is certainly looking at the nation through rose colored glasses. After Obama won re-election there was and still is a huge clamoring for succession by Southern states. And here in Louisiana there still is competition between us and the North, it's nothing that would lead us to kill each other, but it ranges from jokes to pure disgust.

[baron-pierreIV]

Desperately, desperately tasteless and ignorant.

Indeed, the Athens 2004 OC was. It had such promise but was really a failed effort.

[JMarkSnow2012]

You drawing similarities between our history and that of the US doesn't make it stereotypical.. we are two countries of a similar European colonial heritage, so similar themes would arise. I think pointing out things like "Aboriginal Australians = Native Americans" and "immigrants = immigrants" is a big stretch and oversimplifying things. At least we didn't have a gigantic segment dedicated to Medicare

We simply told important aspects of our nation's history - it was in no way aimed at a US audience as much as it was aimed at the home audience of anywhere else. What other themes or chapters should have Sydney's ceremony tapped into?

Yep, we, the USA and Canada all share the fact we're anglo-founded immigrant/melting-pot nations, with vast areas with varying dramatic landscapes and we all have our own indigenes with their own distinctive cultures which we would have got pilloried if they didn't get a significant segment in such a ceremony.

Beyond that the summary was a bit bit rich for someone who always bemoans that people across the pond and elsewhere don't "get" and appreciate the underlying cultural intricacies and sophistication of the London OC. Oh well, we found ours an emotional roller coaster that touched our national psyches as well. Go figure for us colonials!

Actually:

The Thames = The Hudson or Mississippi rivers

Green & Pleasant = Pilgrim Fathers

Pandemonium = Pittsburgh Steel

James Bond = Jason Bourne

The Queen = Michelle Obama

Voldemort in Great Ormond St = her husband introducing evil Obamacare

Mr Bean = Jim Carey (or is he one of those closet Canucks?)

Frankie & June say Thanks Tim = American Idol (from Motown to Seattle Grunge) tribute to DARPANET (or maybe Steve Jobs - Kurt and Miss Ross say "Thanks Steve")

Fading footballer (David Beckham) introducing the torch = fading boxer (Ali) lighting the cauldron

Except that London had Ali himself, of course

And America has the luxury of looking upon Australia as its cute young cousin, not its teasing uncle.

Runningrings' "at least" comment gets things the wrong way round- people objected to the NHS/GOSH sequence because they felt the theme should not be representing Britain to an international audience, but actually it was part of a very important movement. Similarly, most people probably wouldn't have chosen a sulfurous vision of industrial hell as an appropriate represesentation of Britain for an Olympic OC, but there it was. Both sequences also linked directly to the history of London, via Great Ormond Street Hospital and the revealed map.

Similarly, in LA 84 and Atlanta 96, there was a feeling that we were seeing the culture of the cities themselves as much as America in general. The 2000 OC, on the other hand, seemed to be for the "Australia Olympics" rather than the Sydney Olympics (I suppose it doesn't help that the Harbour Bridge fireworks are themselves such a stereotypical representation of modern Australia). How an apparent pandering to American tastes could have been avoided, I don't know, but clearly Australia is not America, and presumably it has many facets which can not so easily be equated with American themes.

[Lord David]

I'd have to say Salt Lake City. It's like they looked at their last attempt Atlanta and actually produced a proper Opening Ceremonies which flowed, as well as paid respects to the then recent 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Calgary's is corny by today's standards, but it indeed was a showcase of Alberta pride and Canadian hospitality. The fact that it wasn't a multimillion dollar production with professional performers and such and was produced by local Calgarians was a charming aspect that particular Ceremonies.

Sydney's was great, especially after the lackluster Atlanta. A good showcase of Australian culture, music and new performance techniques to be emulated in future Ceremonies.

[baron-pierreIV]

I'd have to say Salt Lake City. It's like they looked at their last attempt Atlanta and actually produced a proper Opening Ceremonies which flowed, as well as paid respects to the then recent 9/11 terrorist attacks.

No. The parameters were different. You still (or even if David Atkins produced Atlanta) had to honor the city and region AND ancient Greece becuz it was the Centennial, as part of the Ceremony. (Atkins told the story of the Canadian land and then how things ended up in Vancouver.) It just so happened that the SLC presentation had a more sparkling look to it. And why would honoring 9/11...as I am sure the Incheon Organizing Committee will now include something about the Ferry tragedy in their Opening Ceremony in a few months' time...make a difference...or be the deal-breaker? It wasn't even in the original script--that's why it was added at the beginning and they had to get IOC clearance to include that. Other than TWA 900 going down (a commercial event), there really wasn't a national tragedy of the scale of 9/11 that cast a shadow on 1996...which is why it didn't have a similar moment as the one in 2002. You can't use the 9/11 moment of SLC as a point of judgment against Atlanta or any other ceremony.

Calgary's is corny by today's standards, but it indeed was a showcase of Alberta pride and Canadian hospitality. The fact that it wasn't a multimillion dollar production with professional performers and such and was produced by local Calgarians was a charming aspect that particular Ceremonies.

Calgary's Ceremonial budget was actually $23 million; and I estimate $8 mil was allotted for the Opening. So it wasn't exactly produced on nickles and dimes. But that cost more than LA's $5.9 million Opening. And it did have Ian Tyson and Gordon Lighfoot--not exactly int'l names but performers with Calgary ties nonetheless.

[Athensfan]

Indeed, the Athens 2004 OC was. It had such promise but was really a failed effort.

That's total garbage. Absolute nonsense. You are a self-appointed "expert" who is really just an armchair enthusiast . You obviously have no background in art, performance history, theater criticism or anything remotely relevant to judge such matters. Yet you claim to render a definitive verdict .

I'm sick and tired of you trashing an exceptional achievement just because you want to appear edgy and somehow sophisticatedly contrary. It's garbage.

[baron-pierreIV]

That's total garbage. Absolute nonsense. You are a self-appointed "expert" who is really just an armchair enthusiast . You obviously have no background in art, performance history, theater criticism or anything remotely relevant to judge such matters. Yet you claim to render a definitive verdict .

I'm sick and tired of you trashing an exceptional achievement just because you want to appear edgy and somehow sophisticatedly contrary. It's garbage.

Oh bullsh*t! I've always said that it has its great moments but those parts don't add up to a great sum. And considering it spent so much for its physical uniqueness, that was so vastly underutilized; and its so-called centerpiece, the Klepsydra which was a triumph in costume and make-up design but absolutely flat in terms of live action, could've taken place w/o the lake. It was like 2 separate pieces of theatre w/no synergy whatsoever. Even Papioannou himself claimed he would've changed many things with that version given the chance. And the whole Klepsydra thing...if all they were going to do was lift an eyebrow or flutter an eyelid, why did they have to cast real people? They could have used mechanized mannequins. It was done better at Persepolis 1971 and they do this fake-statue thing at the Pageant of the Masters in Laguna Beach every year.

Further, it really lacked anything celebratory or joyful about the Games returning to Greece 108 years later. That was also sorely lacking.

Bkgd in performance and art? Ha. What do you know about my real bkgd? Many times, all it takes is native intelligence, a sharp eye and accuity is to formulate one's judgment. You don't know what other live-stadium producers and stagers have shared with me re 2004 except that professional politesse prevents them from stating their personal opinions publicly and I won't breach that personal confidentiality. May I also say that just because that's the ONE OC that you saw live, you think that it's the be-all. And yeah, maybe I tend to trash it more here that it really deserves because I am also so sick and tired of your personal digs at me. I don't see where it says I can't voice my verdict on the show anymore than you. So sue me.

[Athensfan]

That's truly laughable Baron.

The cover of your book alone tells me you have no taste. You're in the "legal profession," but you're not an attorney, which says that at best you're a paralegal, some sort of clerk or assistant. Do don't go acting like you're an artistic genius.

[baron-pierreIV]

That's truly laughable Baron.

The cover of your book alone tells me you have no taste. You're in the "legal profession," but you're not an attorney, which says that at best you're a paralegal, some sort of clerk or assistant. Do don't go acting like you're an artistic genius.

Well, there ya go. And who are you? Some nameless coward who puts on this act as a design professional. At least I've never knowingly misrepresented myself. Sorry if it doesn't meet your standards--but I don't need the fatuous likes of you either. Excuse me for living.

[Athensfan]

As for Athens:

EVERYTHING should not have taken place in the water. Part of good direction is using the entire space, staging different scenes in different ways and different parts of the space. It keeps the eye moving and the variety provides changes in pace and rhythm.

Conceptually, Klepsydra was the perfect link to the Cycladic head, Kouros, classical sculpture, Greek islands. I've seen the stupid Pageant of the Masters and it's NOTHING like Klepsydra. As someone who works with animatronic animation in my business, I can tell you for a fact that live volunteers are more reliable and far less expensive than machines. And did you forget that all the people in Klepsydra joined to get her in the pool at the end of the segment. How were "machines" going to do that? And how were they going to capture that sense of Greek history from across the ages coming together? It was a grand human drama that reminded us that despite separations in time and space we are all human, all built from the same DNA that makes us alike and yet unique. "Machines" could say that better? You don't know what you're talking about.

As for Pappiaoannou, no artist is ever satisfied. They would ALWAYS go back and do things differently. That doesn't mean the original creation wasn't superb. Artists are usually the worst judges of their own work anyway.

As for joyful celebration regarding the homecoming of the Games, you're just totally lost. You obviously don't understand the zembekiko, missed the entry of the Greek flag, the whole soundtrack, Cycladic head/islands, Klepsydra, culmination with the olive tree, not to mention the global torch relay segment -- ALL OF WHICH JOYOUSLY CELEBRATED THE GAMES RETURN TO GREECE.

Baron, you are a small man desperate to feel important, so desperate that you will publicly mock a woman for her obesity. I do not have any respect for your opinion on these matters.

[baron-pierreIV]

Blah-blah-blah...whatever.

Wow, you high and mighty, casting the first stone...without sin. Not only that, you're now an online therapist too. I thought you were a "design professional"????

So it's OK for you to judge other people w/o a degree in a so-called field but it's NOT ok, in your view, for other people to cast their opinions on something which is globally available and that yours is the "only valid" version?

So much for credibility. And yet you call me names...yet as far as I know, we've engaged only in difference of opinion re the 2004 ceremony -- yet you hit below the belt. So much for "...little man," A...or whatever your real name is.

(U can PM me if u want to carry this farther. Your mailbox is closed.)

[mr.bernham]

You guys are jokes, Baron the bigger. Why can't you (Baron) appreciate the beauty of each and every ceremony. A nation does not need some Beijing spectacle to have a good ceremony. As long as there is heart and passion in the event then what does it matter on how much it costs or how grand the segments are...it's view like this that have put the IOC in a tough position, back to basics.