Hamburg 2024

[woohooitsme83]

On the other hand, assuming the sample size is accurate enough, Berlin would still have more people in terms of support. ~1.9 million is still greater than a ~1.2 million from Hamburg. The difference is quite small though.

[JMarkSnow2012]

On the other hand, assuming the sample size is accurate enough, Berlin would still have more people in terms of support. ~1.9 million is still greater than a ~1.2 million from Hamburg. The difference is quite small though.

Thanks to the quirks of 20th century history, Hamburg's metropolitan area population is about the same size as Berlin's, though the city itself is smaller. And it is internationally well-known, so it could well be a viable candidate.

[FYI]

I support Hamburg! If the atmosphere is as vibrant as those videos show then count me in!

That could be any large city in the world, though, including Boston. So that by itself shouldn't serve as some gauge of anything. Metropolitan wise, Boston is just as large, if not larger, than Berlin & Hamburg. And have you ever taken a look at Boston harbor? It's gorgeous!

Besides, i'd day Hamburg is pretty "international"

So are Chicago, Madrid & Toronto, but they all lost. How many times do we hear other members here say that every country bidding should "put their best city forward"? Many times over.

While I'm sure Hamburg is a great city & all, respectively speaking, would it be able to stack up against France's best hand, Paris (especially when the French have all those devastating losses under their belt), or the sentimental & powerful appeal of the last continent still that's yet to host (or even in the U.S.' case, where the USOC has bent over backwards lately to try & appease the IOC over their last two bid losses, which were made by the country's two of its three premier cities BTW). Would "pretty" international be enough in a case like that. IMO, I believe not. Here's where Berlin would be the DOSB's best option.

But if both Paris & South Africa (which is starting to look likely these days) refrain, then Hamburg has a decent shot at this (even with Boston still in the picture, & especially if Rome's bid is really weak). But if not, then I wouldn't bet on it.

[BR2028]

I don't believe though, that the IOC is too interested in "showcasing different regions" of previous host nations as much as they like their event showcased in premier locations. In that sense, it's where places like Boston & Hamburg lack. Otherwise, cities like Osaka, Manchester, Birmingham, Seville, Brisbane, etc would've faired much better in their respective campaigns than they actually did.

Osaka, Manchester, Birmingham, Seville and Brisbane all were up against larger and more capable nations or cities in their respective bids. Beijing, Toronto, Paris, Barcelona, Sydney, etc. were their competition. If Paris doesn't bid their big competition is Rome and Rome has its weaknesses as well.

[FYI]

^Umm, to quote you what you said to Baron in the Boston or Paris thread yesterday, "what exactly are you arguing"? Especially when that's essentially what I'm saying anyway (especially in my last post before yours). Depending on the competition, that will dictate how well (or not) Hamburg (or Boston, for that matter) would fair. In a strong field, I don't believe that "pretty international" is going to cut it.

[woohooitsme83]

Don't get me wrong, Paris is still my first choice but if it were up to me, I'd pick Hamburg over Boston any day (maybe I'm still but hurt over the USOC's decision)

[FYI]

Well, that's just it. If Paris is not in the equation, it becomes a toss up between Boston & Hamburg IMO. Neither are Alpha cities, but neither are that obscure. So then it becomes even a moreso matter of personal bias for a fastidious IOC member.

[aquaman617]

IMO, Berlin would be a stronger candidate for Germany to put forward. As the capital of a reunified Germany, it should be able to craft a much stronger, more appealing, and more forward-looking narrative than Hamburg. And Berlin as host would allow Germany (and the IOC) to showcase how much the city has transformed in recent decades. *If* Paris were to be in the race with a decent bid, I don't see Hamburg prevailing. Berlin could, at least, give Germany a shot.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Even from my perspective as a German, I think that a Paris bid would be virtually irresistible - in my view, the three previous defeats don't really play a role. After all, IOC members aren't exactly known as paragons of sentimentality. However, just think of how Paris would fit into the pantheon of erstwhile Olympic cities like London, Los Angeles, Rio de Janeiro, Tokyo, Barcelona and Rome. And then consider the same for Boston and Hamburg. Paris wins such a competition any time. I cannot fathom Rome playing any serious role in this contest, given Italy's abysmal economic and financial situation and the decay of the country's infrastructure.

Hamburg would be perfectly capable and an inspired choice - and it would be Germany's best bet. Whilst Berlin is the capital and has hosted the Olympic Games before (albeit under a fascist regime), the population there doesn't want the Games. Berliners have proven their averseness to the Olympic Movement in 1992/93 when they torpedoed what was widely considered to be a sure thing post-reunification through their belligerent attitude, the arrogance and underhand tactics of their bid committee, as well as the lukewarm support of the government. I've outlined elsewhere why Berlin would be a worse choice than Hamburg, and why it possibly cannot win in the IOC.

[FYI]

in my view, the three previous defeats don't really play a role. After all, IOC members aren't exactly known as paragons of sentimentality.

Worked for PyeongChang, with the sentimental pleas by the South Korea delegation at the final presentation in Durban (of all the ironic places). They were so close in their first two runs, only to run away with it on their third attempt. Paris could benefit the same way.

Obviously, by itself the previous losses by Paris wouldn't amount to much. But minutely crafted in there somehow, with all of the other great attributes that a Paris Games would offer, then that element is just like a cherry on top. And when you look at all the other potential 2024 competition (barring South Africa), there is no other bid that could benefit with any element that is similar. Not even the U.S., since they are bidding with a totally different city yet again.

And apparently, some IOC members must have some sort of emotions going for them, otherwise we wouldn't have seen bids like Beijing & Rio winning, trying to pull at the heart-strings with their calls of "it's finally time to give us the Games".

[Quaker2001]

Worked for PyeongChang, with the sentimental pleas by the South Korea delegation at the final presentation in Durban (of all the ironic places). They were so close in their first two runs, only to run away with it on their third attempt. Paris could benefit the same way.

Obviously, by itself the previous losses by Paris wouldn't amount to much. But minutely crafted in there somehow, with all of the other great attributes that a Paris Games would offer, then that element is just like a cherry on top. And when you look at all the other potential 2024 competition (barring South Africa), there is no other bid that could benefit with any element that is similar. Not even the U.S., since they are bidding with a totally different city yet again.

And apparently, some IOC members must have some sort of emotions going for them, otherwise we wouldn't have seen bids like Beijing & Rio winning, trying to pull at the heart-strings with their calls of "it's finally time to give us the Games".

Pull at the heart-strings? More like pull at the purse-strings.

Regardless of how Beijing and Rio presented their bids, that wasn't an emotional decision on the part of the IOC. It was a business decision. Or perhaps a geopolitical decision. But I don't think it was based on sentiment on emotion. For the IOC, it's expand your brand to a new country with 1/5 of the world's population or to a new continent. We know that'll be the drawing card for South Africa. Maybe PC had that going for them, and based on the voting totals, it wasn't even a contest (contrast that with the 2016 where Rio got most of their votes from the Tokyo and Chicago supporters.. remember they were not the top vote-getter in the first round). Even still, that's all different from Paris, where France is not a new frontier like those other countries were.

What Paris would have going for them with 2024 would be lesser competition. That's what helped Beijing and Rio and PC get over the hump. Certainly there are similarities there, especially with Beijing and PC who both got tantalizingly close and then came back to win. So I think if we're talking about Paris's sell to the IOC, it should start from "a lot of you liked us before and here we are again" and yes, that's definitely an element they could play to their favor, particularly up against a US bid where the support wasn't there in the past AND they're trying with a new city.

[FYI]

Yeah, obviously the IOC is also a business & looks after their bottom line. But even Rogge said himself after Rio won, that if it was all about their "purse strings", then Chicago would've gotten 2016. With all things being equal right before a vote, something else has to be that deciding factor. And at the end of the day on October 2nd, 2009, the IOC felt compelled enough to finally take the Games to South America.

And course Paris is not a new frontier, that's why I mentioned PyeongChang as the main example of that front. In that aspect, I feel the two have many similarities in their respective losing campaigns that could work to their advantage as well.

[Daze]

So, today is the day.

I still go for Hamburg.

What plusbrilliantsexploits says about Berlin in the past is absolutely true ans in my opinion much worse nowadays. The people of Berlin keep complaining about all the mass-tourism in city in recent years, so why should they be awarded with an olympic bid?

[StefanMUC]

Oops. I had totally forgotten it's D-Day today. My guess is Hamburg - DOSB will probably easier live with international defeat than with another negative referendum result, which is far likelier in Berlin.

[JO2024]

D-day? What's happening today? I read that the DOSB would annonce their pick March 21...

[Daze]

No, the DOSB executives announce today with which city they want to bid. On March 21st all DOSB members if they want to go with that city or not, a no means not that the other city will bid. But that vote next week is a sure thing I think.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

The DOSB executives want to bid with

H A M B U R G

Go Hamburg Go

[adrianme17]

So it's Hamburg then!? Just heard this but not sure if true?

[StefanMUC]

First media report it's Hamburg.

[FYI]

On March 21st all DOSB members if they want to go with that city or not, a no means not that the other city will bid. But that vote next week is a sure thing I think.

So the rest of the members can still veto the executives' vote? How many members are there in all of the DOSB anyway. And how many execs.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

On March 21st is the election of the DOSB, but the DOSB executive (the governing body of the DOSB) recommends a bid with my hometown

H A M B U R G

[StefanMUC]

The majority will certainly support the exec, otherwise the loss of face would be dramatic.

[FYI]

I would think that would depend on whether or not the executive vote was unanimous. And also who did Bach's vote go to. I find this process to be a bit odd, TBH.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Glad to see the DOSB make the right choice. Now for winning the September referendum...and for government formation itself. Hamburg has just seen a legislative assembly election in which the Social Democratic mayor won, but lost his majority in the legislative assembly. So, he either has to go with the Greens or the Liberals. From an Olympic perspective, a coalition with the Liberals would be preferable...

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

So the rest of the members can still veto the executives' vote? How many members are there in all of the DOSB anyway. And how many execs.

Theoretically yes, practically no. As Stefan already alluded to, the loss of face for the German Olympic Committee would be way too substantial...

I would think that would depend on whether or not the executive vote was unanimous. And also who did Bach's vote go to. I find this process to be a bit odd, TBH.

The executive vote is likely to be presented as unanimous - that's how these types of associations/institutions like the DOSB roll. Why would you find this process "a bit odd"? Which part in particular? You might want to elaborate on this point...