Hamburg 2024

[BR2028]

Someone a few pages said Boston had 'some' US history...are you f*cking kidding me? Boston is where the US was freaking born. It's where the revolution started and I would argue that its importance to the American physic is much greater than Philadelphia, but that's a pointless and unrelated argument to have here.

[Nacre]

Someone a few pages said Boston had 'some' US history...are you f*cking kidding me? Boston is where the US was freaking born. It's where the revolution started and I would argue that its importance to the American physic is much greater than Philadelphia, but that's a pointless and unrelated argument to have here.

The USA doesn't have one central focus city like France or the UK, so there's no city in the USA with the kind of history that Paris or London have. I think that's partly a product of geography and partly due to the fact that the USA is a federal country instead of a unitary state.

This is also a problem for Hamburg, though. Germany is also a federalist country without a single central city. (WW2 wrecked Berlin, but the federal system prevented it from outshining Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt and Leipzig when Germany recovered and reunited.) Hamburg is a reasonably historic city, but it does not have the importance of a city like Paris to either the government and people of Germany or to the IOC voters.

[baron-pierreIV]

The IOC doesn't care about "history." All it cares about are --

can you provide the venues in which the sports can be played?

Can you house all the bodies they're trucking in? and

Do you have nice halls and luxurious lounges where they can throw their min-soirees?

(That you would have a bottomless purse goes without saying....because once you sign that Host City Contract Agreement, it's understood you're mortgaging your first born for the next 3 generations. )

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Munich is a logistic nightmare?

I would second that question - Munich is one of the few modern Olympic hosts to have built a meaningful legacy. The Olympic Park there is an excellent example for post-Olympics use and a sustainable Olympic Games before the term "sustainability" was even hip. Sans the Munich Massacre, it would have been one of the best Olympic Games ever hosted. Today's Munich is an example for transport efficiency, an economy built to last and modern city planning. It's arguably one of the German cities with the highest quality of life - and yes, the transport system is part of that.

I personally think Hamburg is an apt choice. Munich would be a nightmare logistically. Berlin might have an image globally, but as city if you rub off its hipster elements I personally find it lacking to Hamburg, Munich and Cologne. And look at that central island plan for Hamburg. It has long term usage and integration written all over it.

As Paris. Gosh I don't know why people go on and on about the place so much, as a city it is a catastrophe to get anywhere as it is and probably the most filthy city in western Europe.

Boston I was totally surprised by. It is a nice city, but it almost seems the US is not serious about this bid.

And Rome... ahhh... the next Greece?

You guys say 2024 seems exciting. Seems a bit of a snore. I say we need to phone them middle eastern to bid and cause some scandals

Share your assessment on Rome, which should (just on finances alone) fail at the Applicant City stage. Further, quite unsurprisingly, agree with you regarding Hamburg's plan.

Disagree in regard to Paris, at least partially - then again, I'm biased because I love Paris as a city.

In terms of transport, I only have four problems

1) The pickpocketing in the metro

2) The RER, especially the ones making their way through the banlieues

3) Trade union strikes at rather short notice; if Paris wants to host, it needs to eliminate the trade unions as a negative factor

4) Charles de Gaulle Airport is a nightmare; they seriously need to get a Skytrain between terminals, rather than the cumbersome bus shuttles

Any evidence to back up the sweeping statement of Paris being the filthiest city in western Europe?

The IOC doesn't care about "history." All it cares about are --

can you provide the venues in which the sports can be played?

Can you house all the bodies they're trucking in? and

Do you have nice halls and luxurious lounges where they can throw their min-soirees?

(That you would have a bottomless purse goes without saying....because once you sign that Host City Contract Agreement, it's understood you're mortgaging your first born for the next 3 generations. )

Yep, pretty much...

[JO2024]

Disagree in regard to Paris, at least partially - then again, I'm biased because I love Paris as a city.

In terms of transport, I only have four problems

1) The pickpocketing in the metro

2) The RER, especially the ones making their way through the banlieues

3) Trade union strikes at rather short notice; if Paris wants to host, it needs to eliminate the trade unions as a negative factor

4) Charles de Gaulle Airport is a nightmare; they seriously need to get a Skytrain between terminals, rather than the cumbersome bus shuttles

Yes, the transport system in Paris is not the best in the world, but still, not the worst.

1) The pickpocket is, I'm afraid, a problem every BIG cities in the world has to face. You just know you have to be careful when you go to one of those major cities.

2)The RER is a nightmare indeed. One of Paris' problems is that the banlieue is connected to Paris but to go from point A in the banlieue to point B in the banlieue it's insanely complicated, you HAVE to travel througt Paris. This issue will be adressed by the "Grand Paris" project which will creat 4 new metro lines, one surrounding Paris (line 15), one going from Paris : Saint Denis to Charles de Gaulle, etc. Basically the aim is to improve the connection between Paris and its suburb

3) Hell yes, we HAVE to do something about it.

4) Probably something to do about it. But the Le Bourget airport would be used for all of the athletes, official, family and stuff. This small private airport is between Charles de Gaulles and the Stade de France. This is very close to where the Olympic Village, the aquatic center, and some indoor sports would be.

Paris has many issues that need to be adressed, yes, and the Olympics would help that. But the filthiest city in Western Europe, seriously? I've been to Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, and no, Paris is NOT the filthiest city in Western Europe.

Anyway, sorry I realised this is the Hamburg topic so...I'm happy to discuss this in the Paris one.

[binary]

lol, pickpockting as the worst crime in paris, stateside you have to worry about getting mugged.

[Olympian2004]

That's a domestic competition, so I don't know if that qualifies as "quite a bit of experience" particularly when that hasn't brought them into the international arena.

You're right that Barcelona's previous Olympic experience was well in the past (and that's significant for them given the political history of the city). However, think about how many of the venues were already in place. The Olympic Stadium was already in place. Not 1 but 2 aquatics venues already built. And many other venues in place. So it's not like they put things together from scratch. Not to mention it was the perfect and time place for urban redevelopment having just emerged out of the Franco era.

I don't know much about Hamburg and what they have to offer. But again, to compare them to Barcelona in that time and place (which isn't even to account for the Samaranch factor) isn't being fair to the 2 cities.

Hamburg does have most venues in place already now, too. All that still would need to be constructed are the Olympic Stadium, the Aquatic Centre, a basketball arena and the whitewater venue. If I'm not mistaken, they might be even better off in terms of existing venues than Barcelona when it was awarded the 1992 Games.

[aquaman617]

lol, pickpockting as the worst crime in paris, stateside you have to worry about getting mugged.

And I'd even say that muggings are pretty rare. Pickpocketing is almost unheard of in the US. (Now watch, I'll show up work today to find my iPhone has been swiped from my pocket.)

[DamC]

Paris is planning to spend dozens of billion euros on various transportation projects during the next decade to fix its problems. It includes a

Paris is planning to build a dedicated express train between the city and CDG airport by the way. Most transportation problems the city faces today (especially improving access to and connexions between the surburbs) are supposed to be fixed with the Grand Paris Express metro project

(oops sorry for the double post)

[BR2028]

lol, pickpockting as the worst crime in paris, stateside you have to worry about getting mugged.

No, I heard this one guy was on the subway in New York and his phone was taken right out of his hand.

The key to not getting mugged or pickpocketed is to not look like a tourist. I mean it is really ridiculous how stupid some tourist act and look when they are in Paris, Rome, etc. They act like it is one big Disneyland and bring all their valuables with them, do not speak even basic French greetings, and walk around with their mouths wide open and strolling along. Granted this is not everyone, but tourists make themselves targets simply by how they act. They make it easy to pickpocket.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

The DOSB elected Hamburg with 100% of the votes

TAGESSCHAU

[Citius Altius Fortius]

This is a page where you can watch the different speeches during the DOSB meeting today (sorry in german only)

Hamburg 1 - Einstimmig für Hamburg

[Citius Altius Fortius]

Supporters of Olympic/Paralympic Games in Hamburg started a German-speaking forum:

PROOlympia Hamburg Forum

Maybe you are interested in it!

[stryker]

Hamburg does have most venues in place already now, too. All that still would need to be constructed are the Olympic Stadium, the Aquatic Centre, a basketball arena and the whitewater venue. If I'm not mistaken, they might be even better off in terms of existing venues than Barcelona when it was awarded the 1992 Games.

The Olympic Stadium is the most problematic IMO. I thought that was one area where Berlin had a clear advantage. I know there are multiple football clubs in Hamburg, but is there one that is in need of a large 70-80,000 seat stadium with an athletics track?

[StefanMUC]

The Olympic Stadium is the most problematic IMO. I thought that was one area where Berlin had a clear advantage. I know there are multiple football clubs in Hamburg, but is there one that is in need of a large 70-80,000 seat stadium with an athletics track?

The only thing the two major clubs need right now is a few good points to get them out of relegation troubles on 1st (HSV) and 2nd (St Pauli) level...

[Citius Altius Fortius]

The DOSB picked Kiel as city for the sailing events

[StefanMUC]

Hm, I thought they'd give Lübeck (Travemünde) a chance: It's closer to Hamburg and also a nicer place than Kiel (IMO).

But anyway, I hope DOSB is aware that if Paris enters and wins, there's no need to bid for 2028 altogether, and maybe even not for 2032, while 2036 should clearly be avoided for obvious reasons.

[Rob2012]

Hm, I thought they'd give Lübeck (Travemünde) a chance: It's closer to Hamburg and also a nicer place than Kiel (IMO).

But anyway, I hope DOSB is aware that if Paris enters and wins, there's no need to bid for 2028 altogether, and maybe even not for 2032, while 2036 should clearly be avoided for obvious reasons.

Really? Even if the field opens up nicely and a German bid looks like it could be a frontrunner?

Far be it from me to tell you how to feel about this, but I'm a little surprised.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Kiel is an excellent choice, especially given that the city acquitted itself well during Munich 1972 and enjoys an international reputation in sailing - good choice, DOSB!

Really? Even if the field opens up nicely and a German bid looks like it could be a frontrunner?

Far be it from me to tell you how to feel about this, but I'm a little surprised.

To be fair, there would be a A LOT of Nazi comparisons...even though the notion of comparing the Federal Republic to its fascist predecessor is laughable. Nonetheless, that never stopped the Greeks and Italians from comparing us to Hitler's genocidal regime.

[StefanMUC]

Really? Even if the field opens up nicely and a German bid looks like it could be a frontrunner?

Far be it from me to tell you how to feel about this, but I'm a little surprised.

I think a 2036 would inevitably come over as a 1936 remembrance event, for better or worse, especially if held in Berlin (assuming that Hamburg would not be kept as the bidder 12 years on). I personally don't feel comfortable with that idea, and I'm not sure how this would sell to the IOC. Paris 1924/2024 does not have that historic burden on its shoulders, but a Berlin/Germany centennial certainly would.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

I think a 2036 would inevitably come over as a 1936 remembrance event, for better or worse, especially if held in Berlin (assuming that Hamburg would not be kept as the bidder 12 years on). I personally don't feel comfortable with that idea, and I'm not sure how this would sell to the IOC. Paris 1924/2024 does not have that historic burden on its shoulders, but a Berlin/Germany centennial certainly would.

Indeed. Apart from the fact that Berliners don't even want the Olympic Games, it would bring up these inevitable comparisons. Cast your memory back to London 2012 - remember the Opening Ceremony, with the introductory part (replete with the first bars of the EastEnders soundtrack) leading us from the origins of the Thames to the Olympic Stadium? You may remember that as the camera led into the Olympic Stadium, all posters of the Olympic Games were shown: Well, except for one - Berlin 1936.

Back then, I felt it understandable and appropriate to leave this bit out. Those Summer Olympics were abused by Hitler and his cronies for their promotion of their twisted ideology of racial superiority, the philosophical basis for the genocide and mass murder that was perpetrated by the Nazi regime in World War II. I'm pretty sure that a German application in 2036 would conjure up those comparisons. Don't get me wrong: Today's Germany has no longer anything to prove in terms of its democratic values, its human rights record, its respect for diverse ethnic, religious and cultural communities or the way we deal with our history (unlike, ahem, the Japanese, Chinese or Turks). But some outside observers (as previously mentioned populaces in Greece and Italy) can't seem to escape the old reflexes and are happy to fling the Nazi accusation at us at any given (inappropriate) opportunity. No need to expose ourselves to those tirades...

Besides, we're gonna bring the Olympic Games to our shores prior to 2036 - hence, this is a merely academic discussion!

[JMarkSnow2012]

Indeed. Apart from the fact that Berliners don't even want the Olympic Games, it would bring up these inevitable comparisons. Cast your memory back to London 2012 - remember the Opening Ceremony, with the introductory part (replete with the first bars of the EastEnders soundtrack) leading us from the origins of the Thames to the Olympic Stadium? You may remember that as the camera led into the Olympic Stadium, all posters of the Olympic Games were shown: Well, except for one - Berlin 1936.

If you were American, or even French, Berlin wouldn't have been the only omission that grabbed your attention in that 2012 montage.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

Well - I am not so sure that Paris is the clear favourite - I want to see their concept...

[Nacre]

It's pretty clear what concept Paris will use. They will use almost entirely existing facilities and build an Olympic village somewhere in the poorer north of the city.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Well - I am not so sure that Paris is the clear favourite - I want to see their concept...

To be fair, we gotta concede that Paris is the clear frontrunner. Unassailable? Not necessarily.

I want to see Hamburg 2024 win its referendum campaign first, though. I'll only believe it once the official result certifies a "YES" victory. That said, my first preference is Hamburg.