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We have an outdoor velodrome. Track cycling is not a thing here. It's also not a mandatory event, so we have no interest to have it. Hence cycling is represented by road race and mtb, two forms that are very big here. I don't see the problem with that at all.

I just don't see the incentive to cut it, though. There's no need to build anything at all; they can simply sell standing room tickets around the track. This should be a perfect example of the RIGHT way to host using sustainable infrastructure, and Durban doesn't want to be bothered with it even under ideal circumstances. That's both sad and worrying.

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Still, though, building an outdoor concrete velodrome of standard size would only cost about $400,000 USD in North America. The track itself is relatively cheap. Surely reconstructing their existing velodrome to the standard size couldn't cost more than that.

Spending huge amounts of money on white elephants for the World Cup and then refusing to build reasonable facilities for local athletes for the Commonwealth Games strikes me as being penny wise and pound foolish.

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Still, though, building an outdoor concrete velodrome of standard size would only cost about $400,000 USD in North America. The track itself is relatively cheap. Surely reconstructing their existing velodrome to the standard size couldn't cost more than that.

Spending huge amounts of money on white elephants for the World Cup and then refusing to build reasonable facilities for local athletes for the Commonwealth Games strikes me as being penny wise and pound foolish.

Well, the Durban folks are now ABLE to put their foot down (unlike the FIFA World Cup when everything was decided on a federal level), and pick and choose what they want. They just see, at this time, a velodrome as an albino elephant. I can respect that.

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And that's the point. As I have said before, when you have the options to chose the events, why chose ones that firstly will cost a lot to build facilities for and secondly are sports that local people do not care about? If track cycling was so important then it would be a mandatory event. It is not, so clearly one that can be left off the menu. It's hardly the icon event of the games.

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And that's the point. As I have said before, when you have the options to chose the events, why chose ones that firstly will cost a lot to build facilities for and secondly are sports that local people do not care about? If track cycling was so important then it would be a mandatory event. It is not, so clearly one that can be left off the menu. It's hardly the icon event of the games.

It should also be of note that lawn bowls is a compulsory event, not really iconic.

Surely this is a great chance to boost a very mainstream sport of cycling in South Africa?

It can certainly be done on the cheap.

This is the Avantidrome in the town of Cambridge (population: 19,000) - New Zealand.

It is now the home of high performance track cycling in new Zealand and seats 1500 permanently and can be expanded to 4000

It's cost - NZ$28.5million

9376446.jpg

avantidrome-cycling.jpg

This is the SIT Zerofees velodrome in Invercargill, New Zealand

Permanent seating for 1600, expandable

The cost was NZ$11million

Surely somewhere near Durban could do with this kind of facility , pretty good price for a sporting legacy.

410715-3322-34.jpg

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But the question you are ignoring is why should we care for sport? There are so many sport options out there and preferences differ immensely. Why is this one so important? Of course they could build a venue to replace our existing one, but I still see no incentive of why we should? Why should we try to push this very specific sport in SA where it currently has no passion when there are many others that could be pushed? Preferences differ.

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Last I checked, a sport doesn't need to be dominated by England to be on the program. Besides England is losing steam in track cycling anyways, as witnessed at the track worlds a couple weeks ago.

We still dominate Cycling.

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We have done in recent years; whether we will do going forward remains to be seen and the recent track worlds was a bit of a disaster. Anyway, that really has no bearing on whether it should be included in Durban in 7 years' time.

Dysan is right, but the raised eyebrows over this decision make me wonder whether track cycling should be a core sport. I can't imagine so many being so upset if one of the more obscure sports was cut. And I can't imagine Durban would've proposed cutting it if they weren't the sole bidder either.

Edited by Rob.
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We still dominate Cycling.

Do you? ...didn't seem so a couple of weeks ago in France.

Durban will probably have it's hand forced into providing a track program...Nothing wrong with an outdoor track if need be. Cyclists will just have to adapt.

NZ has two indoor velodromes one at full international standard the other at regional international standard, both could handle the CWGs program and both built on a very manageable budget.

Oh and two more indoors are being proposed for cities of Christchurch and Napier.

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But the question you are ignoring is why should we care for sport? There are so many sport options out there and preferences differ immensely. Why is this one so important? Of course they could build a venue to replace our existing one, but I still see no incentive of why we should? Why should we try to push this very specific sport in SA where it currently has no passion when there are many others that could be pushed? Preferences differ.

Because usually games like the Commonwealth Games, Olympics, and Pan American Games isn't about what sports the host nation wants to partake in. You are there to cater to all of your guests, not just yourself. If you only hosted events you were any good at, the only events you would be hosting are swimming, athletics, and probably rowing and canoeing judging from your last performance at the Summer Olympics (6 medals total lol)

But this is a unique situation where Durban is the one and only city still in the running for hosting the CGs, so you have leeway in what events you would want to host. But I'd be careful in asking for too many changes because I'm sure the CG committee is out there looking for a backup host who's willing to host the majority of the events in case Durban's demands get too ridiculous. Also, even with Agenda 2020, if you want to host a SOG I don't think you'll have too much say in what sports you want or don't want to host.

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But the question you are ignoring is why should we care for sport? There are so many sport options out there and preferences differ immensely. Why is this one so important?

I don't think there's any country in the world where track cycling is a major focus. It certainly is not in the USA and Canada with so many sports leagues out there. But an outdoor velodrome is very accessible to the public and not very expensive. This is not like spending hundreds of millions on a venue that will only be used by "elite" athletes. A simple outdoor track for cyclists would be used by the general public, and would cost almost nothing to maintain.

Even in the USA, where track cycling is nearly a non-entity (with competition from behemoth baseball, basketball, American football and ice hockey leagues,) a simple outdoor velodrome of standard racing size is a decently used public amenity. Seattle's concrete velodrome at Marymoor Park:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrR25w90uRA

Dysan is right, but the raised eyebrows over this decision make me wonder whether track cycling should be a core sport. I can't imagine so many being so upset if one of the more obscure sports was cut. And I can't imagine Durban would've proposed cutting it if they weren't the sole bidder either.

I don't think track cycling is a major sport, and if Durban had to build an expensive velodrome like London's I could understand skipping the sport. It is just surprising because this should be a very cheap sport to host outdoors without the extraneous expense the IOC and cycling federation like to see.

I find it sad, that under nearly ideal circumstances, it is still a struggle to get funding where it should go (to facilities for local athletes) from multi-sport events.

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Why can't Durban have the choice of the sports THEY WILL BE SPENDING THEIR MONEY on?? It's NOT the visitors who will be spending for the venue, is it? If Beijing had its wushu in 2008, Russia had whatever one or 2 events added to Sochi, baseball/soft will be back for Tokyo, surely Durban is allowed to choose what sports it wants to invest or NOT invest in? They're hosting -- NOT anyone else; least of all, Tony!!

@LatinTXC, this is the wave of the future. Prospective hosts, whether lone bidders or not, will have a greater say in what sports fit the local scene or not. That is one of the underlying principles of Agenda 2020; and people better get used to it.

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Why can't Durban have the choice of the sports THEY WILL BE SPENDING THEIR MONEY on?? It's NOT the visitors who will be spending for the venue, is it? If Beijing had its wushu in 2008, Russia had whatever one or 2 events added to Sochi, baseball/soft will be back for Tokyo, surely Durban is allowed to choose what sports it wants to invest or NOT invest in? They're hosting -- NOT anyone else; least of all, Tony!!

@LatinTXC, this is the wave of the future. Prospective hosts, whether lone bidders or not, will have a greater say in what sports fit the local scene or not. That is one of the underlying principles of Agenda 2020; and people better get used to it.

Wushu was not in Beijing.

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If Beijing had its wushu in 2008, Russia had whatever one or 2 events added to Sochi, baseball/soft will be back for Tokyo,

Wushu wasn't in the Beijing olympics; Russia pushed for a couple *events*, not sports; and the bat sports thing is still up in the open for 2020.

Letting coutries add a local sport is one of the ways the IOC got in trouble with so many sports. No sensible person wants to go back to that.

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It wasn't an official sport at the games, nor considered an exhibition game, but it took place during the games.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-10/16/content_3621265.htm

Exactly. They tried to sneak it in as an "Official" sport even having the medals look like "Olympic medals" ...so much so that in wushu circles, they've mistakenly considered the competition as "part of the official 2008 Olympic programme."

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Why can't Durban have the choice of the sports THEY WILL BE SPENDING THEIR MONEY on?? It's NOT the visitors who will be spending for the venue, is it?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to choose what to spend their money on. In fact I agree they should. I'm saying that cutting gymnastics and track cycling won't save them much money.

What ultimately is the point of hosting an event like the Olympics, continental games, Commonwealth Games or a world cup? I would say there are three:

1) To showcase the host city, region and country to the other competing countries.

2) To bring the competing countries (and athletes) together in friendly competition.

3) To provide training and facilities for local athletes.

What is frustrating is that most of the world's mega sporting events have grown far beyond those objectives into money making schemes for the people running the affiliated organizations and doing the construction work for the events. No country needs an 80,000 capacity track and field stadium, and I don't think cities should build one just for the sake of hosting the Olympics even if it's just a temporary stadium.

So I think countries absolutely should dig in their heels and refuse to overspend on lavish facilities. I just don't think that declining to make modest, reasonable investments in track cycling and gymnastics is the right point to draw a line in the sand. Of course that's just my opinion and Durban has the right to choose where to spend their money. But wouldn't it make more sense to save $20 million by having a simple parade instead of an elaborate opening ceremony, and then spending that money to build facilities for local athletes?

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But wouldn't it make more sense to save $20 million by having a simple parade instead of an elaborate opening ceremony, and then spending that money to build facilities for local athletes?

Are you NUTS? :blink: Such blasphemy!!

Besides, what Durban is saying is that if they were to build a velodrome, then they would do it right -- and build a 1st class, state-of-the-art one costing at least $80 million. (It's NOT going to cost like $20 mil only.) But SINCE track cycling is NOT a passion amongst the Durbanese, they why throw away that $$? I mean RSA has learned its lessons from the many white elephant football stadia of 2010 which are greatly underused for major events. Why repeat the mistakes? Doesn't anybody else get this?? :blink:

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Are you NUTS? :blink: Such blasphemy!!

Besides, what Durban is saying is that if they were to build a velodrome, then they would do it right -- and build a 1st class, state-of-the-art one costing at least $80 million. (It's NOT going to cost like $20 mil only.) But SINCE track cycling is NOT a passion amongst the Durbanese, they why throw away that $$? I mean RSA has learned its lessons from the many white elephant football stadia of 2010 which are greatly underused for major events. Why repeat the mistakes? Doesn't anybody else get this?? :blink:

The only velodrome they are willing to bid is one they can't possibly use, so they shouldn't have to build one??? Not even Tony is this dumb.

Build. One. Cheaper. For 100 years the Olympics held track cycling outside. Nothing wrong with that.

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